Inspection lights in car detailing: Brinkmann vs Sun Gun vs other sources

Just wanted to report that though it didn't work for paint evaluation, the flashlight is beyond amazing. I've decided to keep it since one of my Mag lites just died. This flashlight falls into the OMG category so if you in the market, I would strongly recommend it. Long after the price is forgotten, the quality remains certainly applied to this item.
 
addysdaddy- Glad to hear you're keeping it. IMO you can never have too many good flashlights.



Odd that a Maglight died though, while they aren't all that bright, I can only think of one that's died on me, and I've used a *LOT* of 'em. Didn't leave the batteries in too long, did you? ;)
 
If you need a special light source to see a hologram that cannot be seen without that light source, isn't the light source, itself, creating the hologram?
 
bill57 said:
If you need a special light source to see a hologram that cannot be seen without that light source, isn't the light source, itself, creating the hologram?
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Light is only reflecting and showing what is there, it's not manifesting defects.
 
FWIW, I've tried just about every light I can think of and they all have their place, but for me my go to is a narrow beam/high lumen flash light (think fenix tk series) in an almost dark working space. I have found ones with output over 500 lumens can definitely wash out what you see though. The one I use most often is my tk21.
 
MarcHarris said:
Light is only reflecting and showing what is there, it's not manifesting defects.
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Yeah, if you see a flaw under any kind of light, then the paint is not flawless.



Now, whether you want to worry about that particular defect is another matter...but the way I see it (heh heh, pun unintended :o ), something that shows up under some extreme inspection lighting might also show up under some unusual circumstances IRL, and I just happen to be nutty-particular about holograms (probably moreso than about any other kind of flaws).
 
Accumulator said:
While I'm all for everybody having a scad of different flashlights, I can't help but think how it's easy to get something that's "too bright" for a good inspection light. I often do my most meticulous inspections, expecially on metallics, with something that's not too bright at all. Even a 60W bulb can be plenty. It's more about the *type* of light IMO>
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I'm running out of patience in my search for an inspection light. I just received two versions of the light listed below - the larger output version being 180 lumens and the other half that output at 90 and neither one impresses me. I also purchased the HD high out halogens are they are less then ideal as well, not to mention incredibly hot. It's difficult if not impossible to correct imperfections if you cannot see them; and for better or worse, I have white and silver cars. Even on my kids car that is red, it's next to impossible to see problem areas even though I know they exist. (car is 7 years old) My car is the white one and the only time I can actually spot and swirls is high noon on a cloudless day. Granted, there isn't much to see (haha) but it's frustrating nonetheless. As you would guess my cars are well maintained but there is always staining, bird bombs and other such things that I want to make sure gets fully corrected. Don't know what to do next??



72 LED Rechargeable Trouble Light-L-1925 at The Home Depot
 
Dark Field Micro Inspection



Since concourse cars are judged solely on the way light reflects from their surfaces this is what really determines the appearance of a car, so you should inspect it under all possible lighting conditions.



For a surface to be optically near ‘perfect’ it should be free of all surface imperfections. The surface should be viewed very closely and from all possible angles. Start by looking at the surface in a darkened room, once your eyes have fully dilated, turn on a bright Halogen light beam. Direct the beam away from you and at a low angle and from various directions (you’ll be able to see even the most minor paint film surface imperfection) this is 100X more sensitive than viewing a vehicles paint film surface in normal light. This methodology is especially useful for light colored paint; especially white and light silver



This viewing technique is an adaptation of “Dark field microscopy” used in many scientific fields. Direct or cloudy sunlight, shaded, low-angled, directly overhead or light reflected from other surfaces, or the type of artificial light





Extract from http://www.autopia.org/forum/autopia-detailing-wiki/138935-detailing-lighting.html#post1476636
 
A lot of this post is a rehash of stuff I've posted before, probably on this thread too, but I'm trying to be of some assistance to addysdaddy so here goes....



addysdaddy said:
I'm running out of patience in my search for an inspection light. I just received two versions of the light listed below - the larger output version being 180 lumens and the other half that output at 90 and neither one impresses me. I also purchased the HD high out halogens are they are less then ideal as well,... Don't know what to do next??
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Besides what TOGWT posted about doing the inspections in an otherwise dark environment (yeah, that can be easier said than done!), two things come to mind- 1) the need for "distant point-source" illumination and 2) the importance of *contrast* as opposed to "mere brightness".



- Point-source illumination is basically the exact opposite of what that multi-LED light provides; I do better when all the light is coming from a single point (like one LED vs. many, not that I do much with LEDs myself).



And that "point" often has to be a fair distance from the surface being inspected; that's the "distant" part of it.



A single 60W lightbulb can often show marring quite well when used in an otherwise dark shop. It's like "a tiny little sun", sorta simulating the way the (real) sun or a streetlight lets you see that marring when the conditions are right.



-Contrast vs. brightness is trickier for me to explain, and I'll probably do a poor job here :o When you fire up that bright halogen (not that I don't use 'em myself) it can make things reflect/etc. so much that you "wash out" the tiny little imperfections you're trying to see.



Again, a single 60W bulb, *at a distance, in a dark shop* can often show flaws that bright halogens won't. Funny and counter-intuitive, but true IME.



Note that I have a number of silver vehicles and a white one. I have very little trouble seeing *everything* with my incandescent lights, but I still have to work at it. Viewing distance and angle, illumination distance and angle...there are lots of variables to tinker with and it can be hard to say which variable(s) will prove to be critical in any given situation.



Heh heh, I can even leave that fancy SunGun of mine in its case most of the time, though it's a pretty exact example of point-source illumination.
 
I'm actually looking for new lighting as the 500W halogens I've been using are just too hot and when there's not much light around, they don't get the job done. I'm trying out some fluorescent lights this weekend, about 1300 lumens each, so hopefully that will help. I know they won't get hot so that by itself it great.
 
RZJZA80 said:
..I'm trying out some fluorescent lights this weekend, about 1300 lumens each, so hopefully that will help. I know they won't get hot so that by itself it great.
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IME fluorescents show certain *TEXTURE* issues, and that can include sanding scratches, but for swirl-spotting they're basically useless. We used fluorescents in the dealership's showroom in part because they were so forgiving compared to other types of lighting. Heh heh, even my Crown Vic looks good when I only turn on the fluorescents!
 
Sorry to report that the both the 72 & 36 LED trouble lights I just ordered & received didn't pass muster for paint inspection. Returning them today and buying an old school trouble light though I did take a lamp out into the garage - removed the shade and tried using the bare bulb - that didn't work either. Not sure where I'm going with all of this but clearly I'm not doing something right.
 
addysdaddy said:
..Returning them today and buying an old school trouble light though I did take a lamp out into the garage - removed the shade and tried using the bare bulb - that didn't work either. Not sure where I'm going with all of this but clearly I'm not doing something right.
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Maybe try it *with* the shade. I use mine with the shades. I have one set up with a 300W bulb and the other with a 60W (used to use 300s in both but I'm trying this for now).



FWIW, I still use those for my inspections; they work *great* for me even on white and silver. There was a learning curve though, not like I got great results the first few (or maybe "few dozen"!) times I tried.



And sometimes I still see stuff with my halogens that I missed with the incandescents...it works both ways.



I often get the best results by mounting the trouble light at a distance from the vehicle. Not *too* far, but at least a few yards. Then I'll play with the illumination angle,trying to guess what'll be best, and then I work at my viewing angle and my distance from the vehicle. Maybe ten or twelve tries...if I still don't see the flaws I'll move the light and start over. Sooner or later I hit upon the right combo *for that area I'm inspecting*. For a new area I'll start all over.



For a straight scratch, the correct viewing/illumination angles can be very limited. For a circular one, not so much.



Remember that there are 360 degrees to work with. OK, theoretically you can cut that down to 180 for a straight scratch (and really cut it down for a circular one) but in practice it doesn't always work that way for me.



The good news is that eventually you get a knowledge base and can figure out what's best without quite as much trial-and-error. But it's not like it'll ever go quick and easy.



IME there's no type of lighting that will make all the flaws immediately visible, just doesn't work that way (not even with the SunGun). I really do mean it when I say I spend at least as much time inspecting as I do correcting...and I might spend even *more*.



Spend just half an hour, uninterrupted and diligently working at it, and I bet you'll find the right combo for a given area. Yeah...those half-hours do add up but that's just the way it goes.
 
After doing this for 20 years, I've come to accept that no one single light source will do it all. I work with metal halides, flourescents, halogens, LEDs as well as my Brinkmann and Sun Gun. If you try to limit yourself to one or even two light sources, there is a good chance that you will be missing defects.
 
detailfanatic said:
After doing this for 20 years, I've come to accept that no one single light source will do it all. I work with metal halides, flourescents, halogens, LEDs as well as my Brinkmann and Sun Gun. If you try to limit yourself to one or even two light sources, there is a good chance that you will be missing defects.
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Right, agree completely :xyxthumbs
 
And my saga continues. Returned both the 72 & 36 LED work lights I got from HD and purchased an old school shop light that holds one incandescent bulb. Inserted a Revel 60 watt daylight balanced bulb and turned off all the lights in the garage; and for love or money, I cannot see any imperfections in any of the three cars-which is simply not possible. I've tried numerous angles of view and pointing the light in all directions but I cannot see anything. Moved the light from close to far and still nothing. I give up because at this point I have to believe it's operator error.
 
addysdaddy said:
I give up because at this point I have to believe it's operator error.
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LOL I know how you feel. I was working on a black Corvette recently and the combination I was using was looking like it was working perfectly using my halogen. When I turned on my FenixTK10 LED, all the micomarring left in the black paint was glaringly obvious. DOH! I would suggest a Fenix TK11 with rechargeable battery. They are inexpensive and have a couple of brightness settings.
 
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