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Paul Sparks

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Since I touched on this subject lightly on another thread, I was wondering what anyone here can tell us about the orange peel leveling pads. Or the Rayon , Deniem pads that seem to be available in Europe and Austrailia. From what I have read it seems these are for mostly rotary use and go from heavy cut to lsp ready. Anyone actually use any of these yet that can share a little info ? I do have a new CarPro pad that was given to me that is part wool and part microfiber. I have no idea what its for . Any ideas ?
 
Paul S said:
Since I touched on this subject lightly on another thread, I was wondering what anyone here can tell us about the orange peel leveling pads. Or the Rayon , Deniem pads that seem to be available in Europe and Austrailia. From what I have read it seems these are for mostly rotary use and go from heavy cut to lsp ready. Anyone actually use any of these yet that can share a little info ? I do have a new CarPro pad that was given to me that is part wool and part microfiber. I have no idea what its for . Any ideas ?
Click to expand...



I personally have not used them yet. But I do know that CarPro-US is selling these now here in the states. I will PM Corey (CeeDog) and see if he can add more info here.

Here is some info on the Pads fromthe site.


Glass Rayon Polishing Pad
  • High Cutting
  • Minimal Heat
  • Stable Glass Cutting pads
Orange Peel Removal Pad - Denim
  • Remove Orange Peel and deep defects while simultaneously polishing paint
  • Equivalent to 2000 grit sandpaper with out the dulling of paint and sanding haze
  • Remove Orange Peel without sanding
  • Orange peel removal without the haze generated by sanding
  • Breather perforations to avoid paint dust buildup on pad and help keep heat down
  • Polish the paint while removing the ridges of orange peel
  • Less dust and clean up prior to finishing polish


Orange Peel Removal Pad - Velvet
  • Remove Orange Peel and deep defects while simultaneously polishing paint
  • Equivalent to 3000 grit sandpaper with out the dulling of paint and sanding haze
  • Remove Orange Peel without sanding
  • Orange peel removal without the haze generated by sanding
  • Breather perforations to avoid paint dust buildup on pad and help keep heat down
  • Polish the paint while removing the ridges of orange peel
  • Less dust and clean up prior to finishing polish
 
TroyScherer said:
I personally have not used them yet. But I do know that CarPro-US is selling these now here in the states. I will PM Corey (CeeDog) and see if he can add more info here.

Here is some info on the Pads fromthe site.


Glass Rayon Polishing Pad
  • High Cutting
  • Minimal Heat
  • Stable Glass Cutting pads
Orange Peel Removal Pad - Denim
  • Remove Orange Peel and deep defects while simultaneously polishing paint
  • Equivalent to 2000 grit sandpaper with out the dulling of paint and sanding haze
  • Remove Orange Peel without sanding
  • Orange peel removal without the haze generated by sanding
  • Breather perforations to avoid paint dust buildup on pad and help keep heat down
  • Polish the paint while removing the ridges of orange peel
  • Less dust and clean up prior to finishing polish


Orange Peel Removal Pad - Velvet
  • Remove Orange Peel and deep defects while simultaneously polishing paint
  • Equivalent to 3000 grit sandpaper with out the dulling of paint and sanding haze
  • Remove Orange Peel without sanding
  • Orange peel removal without the haze generated by sanding
  • Breather perforations to avoid paint dust buildup on pad and help keep heat down
  • Polish the paint while removing the ridges of orange peel
  • Less dust and clean up prior to finishing polish
Click to expand...

Thanks Troy. These are among the pads I was curious about. Was hopeing someone can chime in that has some hands on experience. This industy is moving fairly rapidly and it's hard to be able to try everthing that comes down the pike. Thanks again.
 
Paul S said:
Thanks Troy. These are among the pads I was curious about. Was hopeing someone can chime in that has some hands on experience. This industy is moving fairly rapidly and it's hard to be able to try everthing that comes down the pike. Thanks again.
Click to expand...

I sent Corey a PM. Since he is selling them I am sure he has either used the personally or knows people who have that could add good info to this discussion.

I'm like you I would like to know more info as I have yet to use them either.
 
Anyone have an educated guess how many "equivalent swirl corrections" you'd be removing by leveling the orange peel that is typical on the robotic paint systems manufacturers use today?

In other words, would you get to the same leveling after 3 average swirl corrections? 5? More?

Just trying to get a feel how much is removed. I imagine you won't have that much clear left and if you get any semi-deep scratches you'd probably be better to leave them.
 
LS6 said:
Anyone have an educated guess how many "equivalent swirl corrections" you'd be removing by leveling the orange peel that is typical on the robotic paint systems manufacturers use today?

In other words, would you get to the same leveling after 3 average swirl corrections? 5? More?

Just trying to get a feel how much is removed. I imagine you won't have that much clear left and if you get any semi-deep scratches you'd probably be better to leave them.
Click to expand...

I think this is something that must be decided on a case by case basis. You have a ton of variables. Most orange peel corrections of any consequence will remove a lot more paint then multiple swirl corrections. Would this be a common procedure for a daily driver ? No. A weekend cruiser. Maybe. A show car. Definite possibility. I think the pads from the original post lend themselves more toward re-paints then OEM paint. I think the idea behind the alternate style of pads is to reduce the the need for sanding and then the removal of the sanding marks.
 
My only concern (still) with these "orange peel reduction" pads is the amount of heat being generated as compared to the use of DA sanding discs.

While it is most definitely still possible to go right through clear coat with a fine grit disc and the DA, I feel that it is nowhere near as easy as a compound, aggressive pad, and rotary. I'd have to play with these personally to confirm my suspicions but at this point I'm content to stick with sanding. Just my personal opinion.
 
Troy asked me to come add a bit of info here. First I'll answer about the cool pad and then add to what Charles said and respond to part of it.

Paul, the hybrid pad you mentioned is the "coolpad" it's an MF/wool hybrid and cuts faster than other MF pads out there. If you want to get super fast correction with a D/A toss it on and prepare to be impressed! One finishing step with foam afterwards and your done. Try it out and please give me a ring or email and let me know what you think.

As far as heat buildup that is something that with certain pads and tools we always check the surface often. With orange peel pads specifically you would want to work a large area to allow it to stay cooler, of course check the surface often especially if doing a small area.

You don't buy one of these and just start hammering away without testing it and becoming comfortable with it first. Just like when learning how to sand you don't just go straight to a Ferrari to learn on. Work a test panel just like you did learning how to do anything the first time.

I will add to what Charles said by saying with the orange peel reduction pads you will find the gloss is not removed like it is with sandpaper therefore you MUST be cognizant of the fact you are removing lots of paint even though it's not as obvious as it is with sandpaper.

They come in very handy for aggressive removal of many things but don't replace sandpaper completely. They reduce orange peel very well but it's something I would be careful with on factory clear. Checking with a paint gauge, checking heat, etc.

Ive used them personally to get a feel and test them but I haven't used them at length the way some guys have. There's an article over on DW that was well written about them. Also, if you Pm Bryan W (Bryans best wax) over on Live2Detail he can give you some more info. He's been using them a lot with great results. John from Perfections used them to take out some serious oxidation from a nasty repaint he was working on. He felt (and I would agree from my testing) that it's easy to clog them up in those situations. It's another great tool IMO, better than sanding some times and not as good for others. You save yourself a step by not having to compound after using them like you do after sanding however you don't level only the tips of the paint as fast as you do with sanding.

Again, learn to use first and don't go applying pressure just because the paint looks super glossy and you don't think your cutting, you are!
 
CEE DOG said:
Troy asked me to come add a bit of info here. First I'll answer about the cool pad and then add to what Charles said and respond to part of it.

Paul, the hybrid pad you mentioned is the "coolpad" it's an MF/wool hybrid and cuts faster than other MF pads out there. If you want to get super fast correction with a D/A toss it on and prepare to be impressed! One finishing step with foam afterwards and your done. Try it out and please give me a ring or email and let me know what you think.

As far as heat buildup that is something that with certain pads and tools we always check the surface often. With orange peel pads specifically you would want to work a large area to allow it to stay cooler, of course check the surface often especially if doing a small area.

You don't buy one of these and just start hammering away without testing it and becoming comfortable with it first. Just like when learning how to sand you don't just go straight to a Ferrari to learn on. Work a test panel just like you did learning how to do anything the first time.

I will add to what Charles said by saying with the orange peel reduction pads you will find the gloss is not removed like it is with sandpaper therefore you MUST be cognizant of the fact you are removing lots of paint even though it's not as obvious as it is with sandpaper.

They come in very handy for aggressive removal of many things but don't replace sandpaper completely. They reduce orange peel very well but it's something I would be careful with on factory clear. Checking with a paint gauge, checking heat, etc.

Ive used them personally to get a feel and test them but I haven't used them at length the way some guys have. There's an article over on DW that was well written about them. Also, if you Pm Bryan W (Bryans best wax) over on Live2Detail he can give you some more info. He's been using them a lot with great results. John from Perfections used them to take out some serious oxidation from a nasty repaint he was working on. He felt (and I would agree from my testing) that it's easy to clog them up in those situations. It's another great tool IMO, better than sanding some times and not as good for others. You save yourself a step by not having to compound after using them like you do after sanding however you don't level only the tips of the paint as fast as you do with sanding.

Again, learn to use first and don't go applying pressure just because the paint looks super glossy and you don't think your cutting, you are!
Click to expand...

I'm very interested. a good majority of my work is restored finishes with sub par finish work.

When you say clog can the pad be cleaned after for reuse?
 
CEE DOG said:
You save yourself a step by not having to compound after using them like you do after sanding however you don't level only the tips of the paint as fast as you do with sanding.
Click to expand...

That too may or may not be an advantage depending on what you're using to sand with. If you use the 5000-grit Trizact discs, or even in a lot of cases anymore the 3000-grit Trizact or Unigrit discs, it may also be possible to follow up with just a polish and wind up with an LSP-ready finish. I've done that with both D300 and with HD Polish in a few different scenarios successfully.

At the end of the day it's just another way to get from point A to point B that all comes down to personal preference.

Good feedback, Corey! :bigups
 
The last several years have seen a lot of innovations as it relates to car care.

  • The ever growing coatings market.
  • The increase in the use and quality of rinseless style washes.
  • The increase in popularity of waterless style washes.
  • Microfiber pads
 
I'll have to try the cool pads. I really don't haw anything that's really aggressive in my collection. There are always those times when I need something a little more aggressive because it would save me time or what I have just isn't getting it done
 
Gents, i reached out to a couple of my guys for more info. After this I won't be posting further on this forum out of respect to PBMG since this isn't their product. I'm not on here much but just assuming it is frowned upon here just as it is on AG.

Here are the questions I asked and answers given. I'll post the name of our always amazing and helpful detailer if he texts me back and says it's fine to give him credit for the experience shared.

> Rotary or DA and have you tried both?  
Flex 3401, pcxp 

>
> How long is a pad lasting you before you switch and is it still useable after cleaning?  

Cleaned after a section with stiff pad brush and continued to work fine after cleaning.

>
> What kind of wear have you seen altogether?
None observed 

>
> What polishes have you used with them and what's your favorite out of those?

Fixer, m105, opt compound new version.  Favorite was opt, more defect removal still long working time. 

>
> Are you finding the pads to be easy to clean once they get clogged up?

Not perfectly 

>
>  Do you switch out and clean later or toss them?
Clean

>
> Do you imagine you would go through more sanding discs or orange peel pads on a vehicle?

Sanding disc by far

>
> What speed are you running them on?
4 on pcxp, 1,2,3 on flex

> I know you had one delaminate on you.  Any further delam issues since the replacement?

I've had 0 delaminations
>
> Best Regards fellas!  Always appreciate both of your feedbacks!

I've got more info but was in a hurry to type this. I'll get it to you ASAP.
 
Paul S said:
Have you tried any of these new pads Todd ? And if so what was your opinion ?
Click to expand...

I have tried some of the different types of pads that are supposed to level orange peel. I will say that nothing will level orange peel as accurately as a piece of abrasive paper wrapped tightly around a firm sanding block.

I think Corey does a very fair and honest evaluation of the pro's and con's for these style of pads.
 
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