I'm done with carnauba waxes.

TH0001 said:
Considering that Carnuaba wax itself melts at 149 degrees, which even white paint can reach in the summer, why would you choose a product that melts off?
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First of all, carnuaba waxes arn't solely comprised of carnauba which I'm sure you know. The high end melting point of pure carnauba is 85 degrees Celsius, or 185 degrees Fahrenheit. My car spends most of it's days in the garage, so it's worth the deep reflections. During the summer I don't have to worry about durability, as I wax often, so even IF it were to MELT off the car it's not a big deal. When was the last time you saw a car dripping carnauba droplets :D ?
 
budman3 said:
... Carnaubas protect better against airborne contaminants such as bird bombs, dirt, pollen, etc. Also, applying carnauba thinly is an art, just like polishing, practice makes perfect. I do find that the spit shine method is beneficial when applying carnaubas as well.
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Those are my findings as well, and they're based on pretty direct comparisons. I was sure surprised when my sealants proved less resistant to the environmental hazards than my carnaubas :eek: Not what I'd expected at all.



I find that applying my waxes via Cyclo, especially with a "pseudo spit-shine", can really make a difference. Must be some kind of burnishing or something, but I do get different beading and *subtly* different looks. #16 seems made for machine application, really has to be tried to be understood I suppose, but it does the "paste wax that turns liquid" thing *so* much better by machine.



jsatek said:
I dont think durability should be on anyones list on this site.



From reading the results of the last poll, isn't wax applied 39 times per month on average by the members of this forum?
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Heh heh, more of my Autopian Heresy follows: There are a few of us (well, maybe I'm all by my lonesome :nixweiss ) who only reLSP when it really needs doing. If the waxes I use didn't last for months I'd find something else; I quit using Souveran on my wife's car (even though she noticed the difference and prefers the Souveran) because of its poor durability.



The Mystery left my car so greasy in spots, I wanted to do an IPA wipe down! The driver door and quarter had an oily appearance. I would wipe and watch is smear around. Water removed it. Clearly a too much product issue..
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Thanks for explaining, I'd wondered if it was something like that. The post-application wipedowns are something that gives me pause when I consider some of those "exotic" waxes :think:



DanSTi said:
As far as paste waxes go though, I can get a similar look from P21S to what I can get with Souveran, or even something nicer. It's all about prep.
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I think this sometimes depends on the paint in question and also the eye of the beholder. I was shocked by how different P21S and Souveran look on my Jag's weird ss metallic lacquer; with the same prep they simply give utterly different looks and I have a very strong preference for the way the Souveran looks. I can sure imagine somebody else preferring the P21S on that car, but I'm utterly confident that a discerning observer would at least notice the difference (on *that* particular paint).



TH0001 said:
Considering that Carnuaba wax itself melts at 149 degrees, which even white paint can reach in the summer, why would you choose a product that melts off?
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I've long been stymied by the (supposed) melting points of carnauba vs. my real-world observations :confused: I wonder if waxes "cure"/etc. in such a way that they become more resistant to high temperatures.



Yeah, Souveran *does* fail on the Jag's hood (which gets *HOT*) a little while before it fails on the rest of the car, but I've simply never had any problems with carnaubas melting/failing in other high-temp conditions. Back when I had black cars it simply wasn't a problem, and when Accumulatorette takes her Audi down south the #16/etc. never suffers from the hot weather :nixweiss
 
I understand completely with your decision jsatek, and one could argue either way, but what you say makes sense, and most importantly you've thought it through to pertain to your personal situation.
 
VaSuperShine said:
I understand completely with your decision jsatek, and one could argue either way, but what you say makes sense, and most importantly you've thought it through to pertain to your personal situation.
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Heh heh, yeah...while I enjoy discussing this stuff (and comparing differing experiences), finding what works for *you* in *your* situation, based on *your* experiences, is the way to go. I sure wouldn't argue with somebody about what they've experienced first-hand ;)
 
I don't think I can say that I'm completely done with 'nubas entirely. However, I find myself leaning and using sealants lately. This is specially true when i'm detailing friends and family's cars who are not as careful and particular as we are. They wouldn't be able to distinguish a nuba look from sealant look. Heck, i've been in the forum for quite a while now, and for me it is sometimes hard to tell which is which. For this reason i use sealants that last longer and cheaper to boot.



Personally, when i do my cars, i use sealants (mostly DG stuff) and occasionally top them with nuba to give it an extra oomph. After all, i've collected my fair share 'higher end waxes' and i can't let it go to waste. hehehe.



These days, i concentrate on looking for products that actually make the biggest impact: compounds and polishes. I personally think that using the perfect compound/polish combo that works *for you* is far more significant than deciding which LSP to use.



Just my two pennies.
 
kkjv1 said:
These days, i concentrate on looking for products that actually make the biggest impact: compounds and polishes. I personally think that using the perfect compound/polish combo that works *for you* is far more significant than deciding which LSP to use.
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I couldn't agree more!
 
I'm really hoping this wax melting debate really isn't serious. As already stated, the melting point of carnauba is somewhere in the 175-185 F range. But, that's the just the tip of the iceberg. You have to figure the percentage of wax to the rest of the mixture and factor in the other components melting points as well. There is just way more physics involved other than "wax will melt off your car".



Of course, I can't argue someone's experience with actually witnessing wax melt or fail on parts of their car that reach those incredibly high temperatures, but I would definitely say those aren't exactly common cases.



Waxes have their place just as sealants do. We all know this.
 
TH0001 said:
Considering that Carnuaba wax itself melts at 149 degrees, which even white paint can reach in the summer, why would you choose a product that melts off?
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Because as applied, carnauba waxes don't melt off the car in the summer. Carnauba is combined with other products that when applied and cured, doesn't melt off the car at 149 degrees. Otherwise my black 626 would have been completely unprotected all last summer on the first sunny July day. Just like adding coolant to water raises the boiling point, the other ingredients make carnauba waxes more stable in higher temperatures.
 
When was the last time you saw a car dripping carnauba droplets ?
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LMAO



It amazes me how these discussions go. If you find something that you like that gives you the look that you like then use it. If its a sealant or a nuba who cares. It's your car and use what you think looks the best. The last time I applied a product to my car the last thing I was worrying about was at what temperature this stuff is going to melt off at, if I am going to get 5 months durability out of it, or what some people on a detailing forum are going to think of me for using it. I agree in hard winter months the durability issue might come into play more than other months.



I think that we are all Autopians here and participate in this forum for a reason. We love car care. I think all and all that we over apply products more than any folks I know. Since I love detailing durability with me is not my ultimate concern.



A product that a person finds appealing and gives a great look on their car may to me look like total crap to me on mine. Find something that you like and use it.
 
Fallguy said:
I've not used a carnuba in about a year , been using DG stuff and if I want a softer more of a carnuba look I've been getting hooked on Megs 21. Wonderful synthetic and been going to it more and more , durability , depth and shine are great.
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Gotchya beat, lol. Been about 3 yrs for me.....And Ive never had a client say, "I think a Nuba may have looked better".

I owe it to my clients to provide the best protection that I have experienced, and to me, its a synthetic, and its the one I apply on my own vehicles.....On the other hand, who really cares who's using what and why they use it?

Its been said by several if not more in this thread, use what satisfies you.....

What I get tired of are the ludicrous claims of protection! I realize the southern states countrywide will have shorter spans of protection in the summer vs northern states, due to U.V. and heat iteslef. And in the winter, its quite the opposite as we dont have salted roads to deal with.

I (literally) have been using the same protectant for over three years now, and I have no intention of changing, although the attention the OCW is getting may allow me to walk off my beaten path. Ive tried many of the same products most of you have (nubas excluded) but always come back to one.....
 
I have been a carnuba man my entire life,with no problems here. I own them all(150 and under) and know to use as little product as possible when applying. I can wax about once a month so I really don't worry about durability and I like the shine when im all done.
 
a.k.a. Patrick said:
Gotchya beat, lol. Been about 3 yrs for me.....And Ive never had a client say, "I think a Nuba may have looked better".

I owe it to my clients to provide the best protection that I have experienced, and to me, its a synthetic, and its the one I apply on my own vehicles.....On the other hand, who really cares who's using what and why they use it?

Its been said by several if not more in this thread, use what satisfies you.....

What I get tired of are the ludicrous claims of protection! I realize the southern states countrywide will have shorter spans of protection in the summer vs northern states, due to U.V. and heat iteslef. And in the winter, its quite the opposite as we dont have salted roads to deal with.

I (literally) have been using the same protectant for over three years now, and I have no intention of changing, although the attention the OCW is getting may allow me to walk off my beaten path. Ive tried many of the same products most of you have (nubas excluded) but always come back to one.....
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Which one , which one .......



Very good points made in your post.
 
jsatek said:
Finally, I think I am done with carnauba waxes all together. I always buy solid black cars, I enjoy having a part time job with them. But once you know what 100% perfection is, I feel it is more easily acheived with a synthetic sealant on my daily driver. I have Souveran, Natty's Blue, Swissvax Concorso, Swissvax Mystery, Meg's #26, so I cant say that I need to try a different wax.





I'm tired of that "smeared oil" look that occurs when you apply slightly too much product.



I'm tired of the elevated up front costs.



I'm tired of the storage debates. Refrigerate or not?





Zaino is it for a LSP for me. If I am seeking a different "look" I'll shoot some Z-8 on the car.

I got off a plane yesterday afternoon and waxed my Jeep with Swissvax Mystery. Hey, it looks great, but I think my issues with the carnauba based products are elavant.
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Excellent post, what you are experiencing is exactly what led me to Zaino and also what keeps me using it. I have been trying a lot of the different high end nuba's lately since I pride myself on having used everything but still find that Z5p gives me just as nice a look if not nicer and also gives me all of the other qualities I am looking for such as durability and ease of use and not to mention it is not 569 bucks.
 
Accumulator said:
Heh heh, yeah...while I enjoy discussing this stuff (and comparing differing experiences), finding what works for *you* in *your* situation, based on *your* experiences, is the way to go. I sure wouldn't argue with somebody about what they've experienced first-hand ;)
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Amen, brother!
 
I personally use both and am happy to use both, they each have their place. I started using Zaino back in early 2000 and still am a huge fan. I have tried so many different products over the past few years that honestly, it all starts to look the same!



But I do agree with you on the "smeared" look. Drives me absolutely up the walls. I'll apply a layer of Pete's on my truck and when the sun hits it, it's all over the place. And MFs don't take it off. I always have to do an AW afterwards to fix it.



The only thing that annoys me about Zaino is when you apply any of their products and you happen to catch some water, it "locks" in the water and the droplets embed themselves in the paint. Has anyone else had this happen?
 
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