IFO vs. EFO - A new way of thinking about contamination

Ron Ketcham- Yeah, sometimes it does pay to just RTFM, and even *follow* it ;)



And, heh heh, my experiences applying automotive paint, while an interesting part of my teen years, basically just taught me to pay the pros to do it :o



Shiny Lil Detlr- Yeah, that VW you did made an impression on me, though I messed up and bought the "Iron-X Soap" stuff, mistakenly thinking the Gel would be the better way to go.



At least with the two potential candidates I have (the Tahoe and the Crown Vic), it won't be any huge tragedy if something goes haywire. Next time I gotta redo one of 'em (and I hope that's not for a long, long time!), I oughta give the Iron-X a whirl.
 
Just looking at the photos, not being able to read a MSDS regarding the active ingrediants, would think it is either a high PH alkaline mixture or one of those with some percentage of oxalic acid in the product.
 
Ron Ketcham said:
Just looking at the photos, not being able to read a MSDS regarding the active ingrediants, would think it is either a high PH alkaline mixture or one of those with some percentage of oxalic acid in the product.



It actually tests pH neutral.



I've emailed the manufacturer asking for an MSDS; if they send me something I will post an update.
 
A friend of mine and I recently restored a 1963 Puch/Allstate hard tail motorcycle.

The original was done in lacquer, which is almost impossible to get, let alone a color match.

I found a 2K urethane, which required a very expensive activator (which 4 oz of such cost more than the paint), and had never applied such a paint.

Read the direction, followed them and you can see the results, (no booth, so some dust nibs and all) on my Facebook page.

I am now doing things for fun, every week, that I did 50 years ago, and re-learning everyday.

It's fun for me, and I am not near as anal as I was back when I started.

Am starting a restoring of a 17 ft fiberglas boat for a buddy, have to fill snap holes, etc, and am looking forward to getting it ready for paint on the top parts and cleaning up and polishing the hull.

Best part, he is paying me, in cash, and a number that is good for me.

Maybe that is part of why I enjoy retirement.

Grumpy
 
Excellent thread and information gentlemen. Here's the MSDS on IronX:

Carpro Tradng Ltd. Safety Data Sheet according to REACH Regulation (EC) No. 1907/2006

Product: Iron-X Revision date: 06/04/2011

Version: 1.02 Issue date : 11/04/2011

1/6

Section 1: IDENTIFICATION OF THE SUBSTANCE/PREPARATION AND OF THE

COMPANY/UNDERTAKING

Identification of the

substance or preparation

Iron-X

Use of the

substance/preparation

Non-corrosive Iron Removal

CarPro Trading Limited

Address 7 Lfigeneias 4th Floor strovolos, Nicosia 1687 CYPRUS

Telephone +972 546 411 911

Company/undertaking

identification

Email [email protected]

Emergency telephone +972 546 411 911

Section 2: HAZARD IDENTIFICATION

Harmful

Harmful if swallowed

May cause sensitisation by skin contact

Section 3: COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS

Substances classified as dangerous according to Directive 67/548/EEC, if present (individually, or

in combination) in concentrations exceeding those defined under 1907/2006.

Name EC Number CAS

Number

Content

(% W/W)

Hazard

Symbol(s)

R-Phrase(s)

Ammonium Sulfanylacetate 226-540-9 5421-46-5 3-25 T R25, R43

Alkyl Ethoxy sulphate -------------- 68585-34-2 1-15 Xi R38, R41

Additional substances, listed according to 648/2004

0.1% or more but less

than 1%

Fragrance

Carpro Tradng Ltd. Safety Data Sheet according to REACH Regulation (EC) No. 1907/2006

Product: Iron-X Revision date: 06/04/2011

Version: 1.02 Issue date : 11/04/2011

2/6

Section 4: FIRST AID MEASURES

Inhalation If patient feels unwell, remove from exposure and keep warm and at rest. Ensure airways are

clear and give oxygen if breathing is difficult. If symptoms persist, seek medical attention.

Contact with skin Wash the affected area thoroughly with soap and water. If redness/irritation develops/persists,

seek medical attention.

Contact with eyes Immediately irrigate with eyewash solution or clean water. Medical advice should be sought as

a precautionary measure.

Ingestion Wash out mouth and dilute ingested chemicals with plenty of milk or water. Do NOT induce

vomiting. Seek medical attention.

First aid facilities: Eyewash and normal washroom facilities.

Advice to doctor: Treat symptomatically.

Section 5: FIRE FIGHTING MEASURES

*****This product is not flammable*****

Extinguishing media Foam, carbon dioxide, dry powder or water fog.

Hazardous

decomposition

products

Thermal decomposition giving flammable and harmful products: Hydrogen sulphide,

methymercaptan, ethylmercaptan, sulphur oxides, carbon oxides

Special fire fighting

measures

It is advisable that fire-fighters wear self-contained positive pressure breathing apparatus and

full, chemical proof, turnout gear.

Section 6: ACCIDENTAL RELEASE MEASURES

Personal precautions Suitable personal protection should be worn whilst dealing with spillage/accidental release.

Refer to section 8 for further details.

Environmental

precautions

Wash spillage area with water to dilute. Do not discharge into natural waters without pretreatment

at a water waste/sewage/biological processing plant.

Small spills (<5L) May be washed down the Methods for cleaning drain with water

up

Large spills (>5L) Should be contained with absorbent material and disposed of

professionally.

Notification: If this material enters the waterways, contact the Environmental Protection Authority or your

local Waste Management Authority.

Carpro Tradng Ltd. Safety Data Sheet according to REACH Regulation (EC) No. 1907/2006

Product: Iron-X Revision date: 06/04/2011

Version: 1.02 Issue date : 11/04/2011

3/6

Section 7: HANDLING AND STORAGE

Handling As with all chemical products, eye and skin protection are advisable if repeated exposure or

splashing may occur. Use in a well a ventilated area and avoid inhalation of vapour or mists.

At all times, observe good hygiene and working practices i.e. wash hands prior to eating,

drinking, smoking or using toilet facilities.

Storage Store in original, closed containers, in a cool (20°C), dry and well ventilated area. Avoid

sharp edges and other potential sources of puncture. Ensure product is stacked safely.

Avoid: Carbon steel, copper and copper alloys.

Section 8: EXPOSURE CONTROLS/PERSONAL PROTECTION

Occupational

exposure limits

No occupational exposure limits listed (EH40 – UK Health and Safety Executive) for

hazardous components listed in section 3.

Ammonium Sulfanylacetate:

INRS (FR) 2006 VME 1mg/m3

ACGIH (US) 2007 TWA 1mg/m3

Hand/Eye/Skin

Protection

Hand, eye and skin protection should be worn if repeated exposure or splashing may occur.

Contact with skin should be minimised, In case of spillage, rubber boots and PVC suit should

be worn.

Respiratory

Protection

Not normally required due to low volatility. However, if the product is being used in an

enclosed area, respiratory protection is advisable.

Section 9: PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPTERIES

Appearance: Colourless Liquid

Odour: Characteristic

Freezing Point: Not available (aqueous liquid)

Boiling point: 100 °C (same as water)

Flash point: Does not flash

pH: 6.5-7.0 @ 20°C (pH Neutral)

Relative density: 1.08 g/ml @ 20°C

Solubility: Soluble in water in all proportions

Section 10: STABILITY AND REACTIVITY

Stability Stable under normal conditions.

Materials to avoid Strong oxidising agents, nitric acid

Conditions to avoid Excessive heat (more than 50°C) and cold. Direct sunlight.

Hazardous reaction

products

Thermal decomposition giving flammable and harmful products: Hydrogen sulphide,

methymercaptan, ethylmercaptan, sulphur oxides, carbon oxides

Carpro Tradng Ltd. Safety Data Sheet according to REACH Regulation (EC) No. 1907/2006

Product: Iron-X Revision date: 06/04/2011

Version: 1.02 Issue date : 11/04/2011

4/6

Section 11: TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION

Acute toxicity: LD50 (oral, rat) 170-650 mg/Kg (adapted from OECD Guideline 423 (Acute Oral

toxicity - Acute Toxic Class Method))

Inhalation: Low risk – not volatile.

May cause irritation to the mucous membrane and upper airways. Symptoms of exposure may

include sneezing and coughing.

Skin: Low risk.

May cause irritation and sensitisation when in contact with the skin. May result in redness and

itchiness.

Eye: Low risk.

May cause irritation in contact with the eyes, which may result in redness, stinging and

excessive tearing.

Ingestion: Medium risk.

May cause nausea, vomiting and possible abdominal pain.

Section 12: ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION

Ecotoxicity LC50 500mg/L (adapted from OECD Guideline 203 (Fish, Acute Toxicity

Test))

Persistence and

degradability

Easy to eliminate.

Biological degradability > 90%

Bioaccumulative

potential

Does not bioaccumulate.

Other adverse effects None

Section 13: DISPOSAL CONSIDERATIONS

Dispose of according to relevant government regulations. Empty containers should be rinsed with water prior to

disposal or recycling. If necessary, quantities greater than 5 Litres/Kilograms should be treated by a professional

disposal company.

Section 14:

TRANSPORT INFORMATION

UN Number Proper shipping name

Hazard

Identification

number

Class

Packing

group

Land

transport:

ADR/RID

Not classified as dangerous for transport

Carpro Tradng Ltd. Safety Data Sheet according to REACH Regulation (EC) No. 1907/2006

Product: Iron-X Revision date: 06/04/2011

Version: 1.02 Issue date : 11/04/2011

5/6

Sea transport:

IMDG

Not classified as dangerous for transport

Air transport:

IATA/ICAO

Not classified as dangerous for transport

Section 15: REGULATORY INFORMATION

Hazard symbol(s)

Harmful

Contains Ammonium Sulfanylacetate. May cause an allergic reaction.

R-phrase(s):

R22 Harmful if swallowed

R43 May cause sensitisation by skin contact

S-phrase(s):

S2 Keep out of the reach of children

S26 In case of contact with eyes, rinse immediately with plenty of water and seek medical advice.

S37 Wear suitable gloves

S46 If swallowed, seek medical advice immediately and show this container or label

Guiding information:

This product is classified, labelled and packaged according to the Chemicals (Hazard Information and Packaging for

Supply) Regulations (United Kingdom) 2009 and to the Approved Classification and labelling Guide (Sixth Edition).

Additional reference has also been made to EC Directive 67/548/EEC (Dangerous Substances Directive) and

conformity with EC Directive 1999/45/EC (Dangerous Preparations Directive) has been checked.

The surfactant(s) contained in this preparation complies(comply) with the biodegradability criteria as laid down in

Regulation (EC) No.648/2004 on detergents. Data to support this assertion are held at the disposal of the competent

authorities of the Member States and will be made available to them, at their direct request or at the request of a

detergent manufacturer.

The information within this data sheet has been collated from EC regulation 790/2009 (amended 1272/2008), the

CESIO recommendations for Anionic and Non-ionic surfactants (2006), the EH40/2005 Workplace Exposure limits, the

Detergent Ingredients Database (DID-list, maintained by Ecolabelling Norway on behalf of the European Commission),

CESIO recommendations for the classification and labelling of surfactants as “Dangerous for the Environment�,

REACH Registered Substances Database IUCLID5) and from ingredient safety data sheets.

The data should be considered when making any assessment under the Control of Substance Hazardous to Health

(COSHH) Regulations.

Section 16: OTHER INFORMATION

Full text of hazard symbols and R-phrases, if mentioned as hazardous components in section 3.

R25 Toxic if swallowed

Carpro Tradng Ltd. Safety Data Sheet according to REACH Regulation (EC) No. 1907/2006

Product: Iron-X Revision date: 06/04/2011

Version: 1.02 Issue date : 11/04/2011

6/6

R38 Irritating to skin

R41 Risk of serious damage to eyes

R43 May cause sensitisation by skin contact

PLEASE NOTE: the above risk phrases refer to the full strength ingredients, NOT to the Iron-X product.

Revision history:

Revision Author date notes

1.02 BL Scientific 06/04/11 MSDS updated to REACH specification. Classification according to DPD

and CHIP.

If you have any queries relating to this MSDS, its contents or any other safety related questions,

please write to: [email protected]

The information contained herein is believed to be accurate and is given in good faith. No warranty

or guarantee is implied. Recipients must take responsibility for observing existing laws and

regulations.
 
Thanks, it should be interesting, and I do still have an old chemical dictionary that provides most of the "many" names for some very common components.

Hope I don't embrasse them if they attempt to use some of the other terms for a common component.

Grumpy
 
Does not look too bad, and now I have to dig out the dictionary, but it appears to be of the sulfuric family.

There are clues to what they post, and it has to do with the "toxicity" portion.

No panic here, just need to do some reading.


I do notice that under decomposition, it produces a sulfuric gas, which does make me curious.

Sulfurics, in the correct precentage is not all that bad, however, above a certain percentage, it is possible that the "softening" that I referred to earlier may occur.

Grumpy
 
Thanks for posting that, David.



A quick google search revealed that:



"Ammonium Sulfanylacetate" is another name for "Acetic Acid"



"Alkyl Ethoxy Sulphate" is a trade name to describe an "Anionic Surfactant"
 
Ron Ketcham said:
Sulfurics, in the correct precentage is not all that bad, however, above a certain percentage, it is possible that the "softening" that I referred to earlier may occur.

Grumpy



Please don't make me regret having just bought 5L of this stuff :pray1: :rofl
 
Charles, which I may add, are not bad, if in the correct percentages.

Both are very commonly used components in many products, not just for the detailing industry.

Just watch very carefully how the product reacts with black ASB component trim, aluminum trim and such.

Not saying it is bad or damaging, since I have no experience with it.

Grumpy
 
I say ole Charles sends Ron a sample to try out in the lab for a head to head comparison with the reigning multi-decade decon champ. :boink::fencing:
 
David Fermani said:
I say ole Charles sends Ron a sample to try out in the lab for a head to head comparison with the reigning multi-decade decon champ. :boink::fencing:



If Ron has access to a lab and wants to do some testing, I'd be more than happy to contribute to the cause....
 
Hey, Hey, Hey, I am retired, no lab to work in, no paid trained chemist to go to for real input any longer!

I just play with restoring old things, attempting to pass on my years of the business.

But, thanks for the thought.

Grumpy
 
Gee, another "nonacidic" product that's apparently not...guess that's not big surprise.



I'm really careful with such stuff around aluminum trim anyhow, hardly *ever* even use "B" on the Audis (except when the S8 was brand new) due to the fragility of the aluminum trim.



Ron Ketcham- Will use in a controlled environment minimize the risk of "softening" (when using products that can do that)? As in, is it exacerbated by heat/etc. ?
 
Almost and I mean almost all surfactants, acid based, etc are heat reactive. IE, heat makes them more agressive.

Regarding the Iron-X, did some research and like all of the chemical blenders, don't ever put information into a MSDS, if it can be avoided which would create a "red flag" for the end user.

Acetic acid is close to vineger, but is also known as ethanoic, which is another name for oxalic acid.

Just minor differences, but still preform the same with difference in percentage to make it active.

AI uses a small percentage of the ethanoic in the B product, combined with other acid bases and inhibitors to control it's activity..

However, as I stated earlier, any of these sort of products are heat reactive and instructions should be followed.

AI now has a video on it's ValuGard website showing the correct use, equipment, etc for anyone to view.

I wanted this for years, just took my retiring for them to finally spend the money to do so.

The product Iron-X appears, after checking out the MSDS, etc to not be much different than "rust/fallout/ferrous metal" removers that have been marketed for years.

Companies such Grantize, Pro, AutoMagic, Carbright, local blenders have marketed such a product for over 3 decades.

Marketing is wonderful, just have to know how to reach a market with a different spin.

Grumpy
 
Ron Ketcham said:
AI now has a video on it's ValuGard website showing the correct use, equipment, etc for anyone to view.

I wanted this for years, just took my retiring for them to finally spend the money to do so...



Maybe without you around they thought they needed the online demo :D







The product Iron-X appears, after checking out the MSDS, etc to not be much different than "rust/fallout/ferrous metal" removers



That purple indicator dye does appeal to me though :think:





Companies such Grantize, Pro, AutoMagic, Carbright, local blenders have marketed such a product for over 3 decades.



Thought I was the only guy who remembered stuff like Pro :chuckle: Didn't recall that they offered the ferrous decon product though.



Marketing is wonderful, just have to know how to reach a market with a different spin.

Grumpy



Maybe that's all the indicator dye is, but it might be enough.
 
Accumulator said:
Thought I was the only guy who remembered stuff like Pro





I have an older Pro catalog and my old detail supply store in Jersey sold the line. That's how I found out about their Bug Guard





Ketch-- it's a shame those old informative articles ( not TSBs)on detailing and fallout seem to be absent from Autoint's site these days :(
 
I just wanted to say thanks to the OP for starting this thread and a special thanks to Ron for sharing his years of knowledge in the industry. ....and explaining it in layman's terms so folks like me can follow along. ;)
 
Kean said:
I just wanted to say thanks to the OP for starting this thread and a special thanks to Ron for sharing his years of knowledge in the industry. ....and explaining it in layman's terms so folks like me can follow along. ;)



Thanks Kean... yeah it is great to hear input from the King of Decontamination :D
 
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