If U Could Design a Pad?

R

RAG

New member
I was curious if anyone else had any good ideas for pads?



Personally, I think the perfect polishing pad (for rotary anyway) already exists in the form of the Green American Buffing (AKA Propel II) pad - flat design, does not sling, highly flexible/maneuverable/conforming, low heat generation, edge to edge backing material that never separates, and lasts Forever. But I think our options for light compounding/cutting pads are limited - I like the orange foam for it's medium-duty cutting, but they tend to be way too stiff for rotary use (same problem with the yellow foam) . Lake Country has a great idea of layering foams (LCVC), but have a couple primary issues... they are not in a flat design and lack edge to edge backing material (so tha backing material tends to separate.



Personally, I'd like to see the green or blue AB/P2 with about 3/8 of orange and/or yellow foam glued on top...this would marry good cutting ability with a flexiblibility and a pad that would better conform to curves. I modified a couple yellow and orange LCVC pads into a flat design and love them...much much better. See below -the flat pat rocks!
 

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I am waiting for some pads that is going to be made after my specifications:



Made by reticulated foam(generates very little heat) and about 6" wide and waffled.



Will take photos when I get them.
 
I too would want the green american buffing foam in a 6" diameter (not 6.5), flat pad, the edges would be rounded off(as opposed to flat sides that some smaller pads have), there would be edge to edge backing material, and a hole for centering. I would also like to have the durability of the LC white foam polishing pads--I find them too stiff for most rotary use, but the durability is great. The green AB foam seems to be less durable-they get "fuzzy" quicker which for me which hinders their ability to finish out(leaves micromarring). I would also want the green foam to maintain more of its compression rate. As they age the green foam pads seem to lose a lot of their structual integrity making them too "squishy" for me.



Ryan, I think your assesment of the orange pads is spot on. Way too stiff and seems to make you "chase" the rotary over the paint.



I do want to try the new LC pads. Do they have a centering "button?"
 
MichaelM said:
What don't you all like about the concave style pads? Same gripes about the LC style pad?
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Well PC wise, I dont understand how you can have full contact with the pads surface, unless you apply excessive pressure. Especially with Orange as its much denser.
 
i started with concaved lc pads, looking back i dont understand them either, i guess the edges do limit sling. but i don't think thats the reason for them.
 
oh and rag, the orange with a blue base is genius, i can just imagine the flexibility you would achieve. there are a lot of trucks where i have to switch to four inch around the rear wheels i bet that idea would help out tons in those areas.
 
Does anybody cut pads here? When mine gets frayed, "fuzzy", I cut them with a long sharp knife or with a blade. I spin up my rotary to 3000, and I slowly pull the blade and let it cut through the pad. Basically I peel off the used layer from the pad.



So, I don't stick to a given design... :D



But I like the rounded side pads too.
 
I have some Edge 8 inch pads for my rotary. They have a slight concave that flattens when pressure is applied. I've found that they splatter less than totally flat pads. Edge also makes waffle pads but I don't think they offer them with a velcro back. You have to look to 3m for that.
 
Hmmm. I've been getting about 75 hours per green AB/P2 pad, wheras my white LCVCs have only been lasint me about 30 hours (if the backing material doesn't come off first)...btw, there is a big difference between the white foam used in the LCVCs sold at PacShak vs. CMA...I like the CMA ones.



When you say micromarring, you must be referring to using them (green P2s) via PC. For me, via rotary, nothing finishes down better than a well worn-in green P2.



Last question...why 6". I ended up with a few that were real close to 6" and returned them because they edges tended to roll in/over. I've had the best luck with the pad having a diameter .5-.75" greater than the backing plate.



ebpcivicsi said:
I too would want the green american buffing foam in a 6" diameter (not 6.5), flat pad, the edges would be rounded off(as opposed to flat sides that some smaller pads have), there would be edge to edge backing material, and a hole for centering. I would also like to have the durability of the LC white foam polishing pads--I find them too stiff for most rotary use, but the durability is great. The green AB foam seems to be less durable-they get "fuzzy" quicker which for me which hinders their ability to finish out(leaves micromarring). I would also want the green foam to maintain more of its compression rate. As they age the green foam pads seem to lose a lot of their structual integrity making them too "squishy" for me.



Ryan, I think your assesment of the orange pads is spot on. Way too stiff and seems to make you "chase" the rotary over the paint.



I do want to try the new LC pads. Do they have a centering "button?"
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Amazing. I don't have a problem with any pads and adore all types of LC pads and I do use those sonus orange DAS pads with my rotary. It can chatter a little when new so I machine wash em about five times when I get them and when ready to use, soak the pad in boiling hot water and then remove excess water, put on the machine before it coolsand no more chatter



Of course that's not to say that pads can't be improved.

I really like having two different grades of foam as a double sided pad. Brilliant idea.



is there some material out there that could be a replacement for foam some day?



All types of pads have their advantages and disadvantages. Waffle pads cut down heat (i think), flat's, CCS, tufted's and those with the VC's.

Generally, the thick 6-7 inch DAS pads do a better job than the thinner 7.5 - 8.5 inch pads and have more pad between machine and surface.



I'd like pads for the rotary to be as thick as the sonus DAS orange and EDGE durafoam 6 inches.
 
I found a piece of soft egg crate packing foam and glued it to some cheapo pads I got at Big Lots. Now I have 3 waffle pads to play around with.
 
RAG said:
Hmmm. I've been getting about 75 hours per green AB/P2 pad, wheras my white LCVCs have only been lasint me about 30 hours (if the backing material doesn't come off first)...btw, there is a big difference between the white foam used in the LCVCs sold at PacShak vs. CMA...I like the CMA ones.



When you say micromarring, you must be referring to using them (green P2s) via PC. For me, via rotary, nothing finishes down better than a well worn-in green P2.



Last question...why 6". I ended up with a few that were real close to 6" and returned them because they edges tended to roll in/over. I've had the best luck with the pad having a diameter .5-.75" greater than the backing plate.
Click to expand...



I got my LC pads from TOL--they are the flat pads. My white LCVC pads (which I never use) are a lot softer and less durable then my flat, white LC pads.





I don't have as much success finishing via rotary or PC once the pad gets "fuzzy." Perhaps I am doing something else wrong. Nixweiss I also machine wash mine, which could accelerate break down of the foam.



I use the Meguiars W64 BP, so it's actualy 5" and change--a 6" pad would give me the over hang that you describe.
 
Nice. But 7" is a tad too big. I logged a few hundred hours with the American Buffing pads of three generations ago (7" with recessed back), but didn't like them near as mush as the 6.5" pads that were flat on the bottom (I probably even liked these better than the 6.75" flowered edge pads, though backing material was a problem). It will be really really hard to beat the current 6.75" AB (aka Propel II pads)...btw, I ended up with some that were 6.25" and were too small, causing the edges to "roll over" (so I sent them all back); I think most rotary "experts would agree that 6.5 - 6.75" is ideal for a 6" backing plate (about 3/8" overhang is ideal).



Yes, you interpereted my "dream" pad perfectly. Lake Country put two different foams together, but they have some flaws...backing material is highly suspect (often come apart), top layer of foam is not flat, and diameter is slightly undersized (but only by about 1/8").



Regarding the waffle design...I'll reserve my judgement till I try a couple. I'm weary of sling with this design...but I don't know. And heat certanly isn't a problem with your green foam anyway.



Thanks.
 
This green pad has about 50-70 hours on it. Amazing.



It is well broke in and on really tricky black paint I have noticed it actually finishes down better than the blue or white softer foams from American buffing mostly because the green foam has less PPI and tends to "grip" the paint less and also generates less heat (I have confirmed this many many times).



The orange one doesn't get much rotary use due to its stiff, unwieldly nature. When I need aggressive polishing, I usually reach for the orange or white LCVC pads, but they don't last long :(
 

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AB, are those pads different from the original "diamond glide" pads that once only available in orange and black?



I too feel that 7" is too large, but I also feel certain that we are in the minority as most "detailers" want large pads.



How many pads would it take to create a custom order?
 
RAG said:
This green pad has about 50-70 hours on it. Amazing.
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That's the magic black velcro! Our foams will take a ton of abuse... so when you've eliminated the delamination issue, you'll see results like yours. The problem is that we cannot use that technique with a pad that is "processed" in any way on the back (recess, bevel, etc.) Thusly, even though we use better methods than most on those recessed pads, you inevitably have a few pads where the velcro comes off before the foam breaks down and people feel slighted. Unfortunately, with what's available... it's unavoidable.





I suppose you could do like *couSOMEgh* people, and grind out most of your foam to bury the velcro and then use a hot glue gun around the edge. But what good is that when you're left with a whole half an inch of already inferior foam to buff with? :lol







AB, are those pads different from the original "diamond glide" pads that once only available in orange and black?
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Same basic principle, just available in all foam types, with a recess for plate security, hole for centering, and at a lower price than the diamond glide pads. And at a MUCH lower price than those sticky note guys!
 
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