I recently bit the bullet...

I never said I used a "rotary", only a "powered polisher", so where did the rotary reference originate? 2000 and 2500 grit sanding by hand and 5000 grit by powered polisher (Rupes Duetto for the curious among you) and all further polishing after the sanding with foam pads and powered polisher (Rupes Duetto or 21). I have used a rotary in the past, but 99% it has been to burnish paint using super fine polish and "barely there" finish pads. I have never produced "color" on the pads when using a rotary.
 
I know a guy who`s pretty proficient with a rotary and even he has burnt through fresh paint. It`s easy to do on edges. Granted the time he did that it was single stage paint but it still can happen.

Wetsanding was a fad here a few years back and most of those guys never considered just how thin factory clear is.
 
GonzoBernelli said:
I never said I used a "rotary", only a "powered polisher", so where did the rotary reference originate?
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Sorry, I contributed to it going off in that direction :o

And I agree with you that there`s no reason why a rotary would be needed to remove sanding marks; I`ve done it by hand dozens of times let alone with a RO/DA.

wannafbody said:
Wetsanding was a fad here a few years back and most of those guys never considered just how thin factory clear is.
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I sometimes wonder how the paint on 4u2nvinmtl`s clear is doing these days. I sure hope it`s OK, and I know from experience that it`s possible to baby compromised paint and have it be OK for ages, but I do still wonder.

Guess my big concern is future correction. I gather that most people correct their vehicles every few years and that alone can sure take its toll when there are only scant microns to spare in the first place.
 
Accumulator said:
Guess my big concern is future correction. I gather that most people correct their vehicles every few years and that alone can sure take its toll when there are only scant microns to spare in the first place.
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This is why I take extreme washing so seriously. Especially when it comes to my Honda’s thin clear. Haven’t had to polish it yet and I plan to continue washing in a way that never mars the paint
 
While the combined forces of the Russian and Israeli military couldn`t get me to apply sandpaper to car paint, I applaud Gonzo`s efforts and hope it works out as expected (by him).
 
Just to put this in perspective, I`ve looked at the thickness of the factory clear on my TA hood. To my eye, it looks to be about the thickness of a finger nail, maybe less. Granted I`ve taken a bit off over the years by sanding and polishing.

Based on some further research, a reply by Meguairs on their forum has suggested that factory clear is about 1.5 to 2 mils thick. So on the thick side, that`s 0.002 inches thick. Another comparison is a piece of copy paper which is approximately 3.5 mils thick.
 
wannafbody said:
Just to put this in perspective, I`ve looked at the thickness of the factory clear on my TA hood. To my eye, it looks to be about the thickness of a finger nail, maybe less. Granted I`ve taken a bit off over the years by sanding and polishing...
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I`ve tried to figure cc thickness by examining to-the-metal chips under magnification, but it was beyond me...I just don`t see microns, or even mils, the way some people can (some old machinists are freaky-good at it).

Sorta wish I knew how much clear is on Audis just for the sake of knowing, but FWIW my wife doesn`t want me to correct the etching on her A8 lest it overthin the clear.

Based on some further research, a reply by Meguairs on their forum has suggested that factory clear is about 1.5 to 2 mils thick..
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He was talking specifically about the paint on *your* TA`s hood, right? That`s a lot more clear than on a lot of vehicles...
 
No, the Meguairs comment was a general reply to another board member there, not one specific to my TA hood. There is probably some variation between manufacturers.
 
wannafbody said:
Just to put this in perspective, I`ve looked at the thickness of the factory clear on my TA hood. To my eye, it looks to be about the thickness of a finger nail, maybe less. Granted I`ve taken a bit off over the years by sanding and polishing.

Based on some further research, a reply by Meguairs on their forum has suggested that factory clear is about 1.5 to 2 mils thick. So on the thick side, that`s 0.002 inches thick. Another comparison is a piece of copy paper which is approximately 3.5 mils thick.
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25.4 Microns = 1 Mil
1.5 mils = 38.1 Microns
2.0 mils = 50.8 Microns
3.5 mils = 88.9 Microns

This is why I Always measure total thickness of paintwork in Microns..
Even knowing the total thickness of the paint, primer, sealer, etc., clear coat, in Microns, I still don`t know how much clear coat is on the top..

I just have to assume the higher the total thickness number is, averaged, over all the paintwork, there hopefully is more clearcoat to work with..

I have to know if I am even removing 1/2 of 1 micron of the Clearcoat..
I don`t ever want to hurt anyone`s paintwork..
Dan F
 
wannafbody said:
I know a guy who`s pretty proficient with a rotary and even he has burnt through fresh paint. It`s easy to do on edges. Granted the time he did that it was single stage paint but it still can happen.

Wetsanding was a fad here a few years back and most of those guys never considered just how thin factory clear is.
Click to expand...


."" It`s easy to do on edges""

This is the reason the - edge - of any pad especially, and the rest of the pad never hits an edge, period...
There will never be a reason to touch an edge with any machine in the first place.. I correct, etc., close to them, but never, ever, hit that edge with the machine..
How many edges have you ever seen that were needing correction.. :)
Of all the places on auto paintwork that have the - Least - amount of primer, sealer, paint, clear, it will always be - All - the edges..
Perhaps your guy just had a moment.. Sorry it had to happen..
Dan F
 
One of these days I just *GOTTA* read over the latest Ford TSB Ketch sent me about their current paint systems! Apparently things are much thinner these days than on my Crown Vics.

wannafbody said:
There is probably some variation between manufacturers.
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IME...so much so that there`s no way to make a blanket statement generalizing it.

Stokdgs said:
I have to know if I am even removing 1/2 of a 1 micron of the Clearcoat..
I don`t ever want to hurt anyone`s paintwork..
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I`ve always been impressed by how careful you are about how much you take off.

The one thing I wonder about is how you do significant correction without removing much. A fingernail scratch behind a door handle will require a *LOT* of removal to get the surrounding area down that far, even a "typical swirlmark" will take a few microns IME. Which is why I go utterly :rolleyes: when somebody says the "couldn`t feel it with their fingernail" (as do you I`m sure). I mean...I`ve measured over and over when correcting a given area and the marring has always been a few microns deep unless we`re talking something like holograms or micromarring.
 
The total amount of clear is not the issue with sanding factory clear. The UV protection is in the top .5 mils. That is the problem. Remove that and then you risk failure. I do think the car does look good, but I’d hate to be the guy that buys it when you sell it!
 
Stokdgs said:
."" It`s easy to do on edges""

This is the reason the - edge - of any pad especially, and the rest of the pad never hits an edge, period...
There will never be a reason to touch an edge with any machine in the first place.. I correct, etc., close to them, but never, ever, hit that edge with the machine..
How many edges have you ever seen that were needing correction.. :)
Of all the places on auto paintwork that have the - Least - amount of primer, sealer, paint, clear, it will always be - All - the edges..
Perhaps your guy just had a moment.. Sorry it had to happen..
Dan F
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Luckily it was his truck and not a customers.
 
The month of May has not been kind to "The Gonz":o. First the panel aft of the passenger door (in the concave section just below the window) got hammered by some YUTZ in a truck while I was in Kroger getting cat food. Put a dent the size of a quarter AND cut through clear coat, the color layer and primer and revealed some aluminum body panel:angry:. Thursday I got slammed in rear bumper (body work remains pristine) by a ZITT who did not wait for my car to clear the corner at a STOP sign before proceeding:angry:. How do these IDIOTS ever get a drivers license in the first place???
 
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