I know - wetsand!

E

efnfast

New member
Perhaps it's just me, but I'm wondering if anybody has noticed this trend lately - we have more and more damaged threads (burned clear, etc.. etc...) popping up, and it "oddly" seems that people are turning to/recommending more and more aggressive methods.



For example, when the new 105 came out, it seems the vast majority now start with 105 whether it's needed or not.



minor water spots that can't be removed via polish and only seen if you really look for them - wetsand.



a scratch nobody will see except you when you wash the car - wetsand



orange peel on your 2005 civic daily driver that sees 40k miles/yr - wetsand



It seems almost every 3rd thread was a wetsand recommendation; I don't remember that happening yeaaaaaaaaaaars ago.



Maybe it's just me? :)
 
I will say that this trend seems to come and go on Autopia, but I feel it is important to know that more people have access to quality products and good info, which promotes this "trend" we are seeing.



I personally have only resorted to wetsanding in a few situations: touchup painting, vandalism (keyed) and minor fender benders.



The rest of the time, if it isn't coming out with an agressive polish, it stays there (I only detail my/family cars lately).



I feel it isn't worth the time to take for wetsanding. I am so busy I barely have time to do regular upkeep (wash, sealant every few months).
 
efnfast said:
Perhaps it's just me, but I'm wondering if anybody has noticed this trend lately - we have more and more damaged threads (burned clear, etc.. etc...) popping up, and it "oddly" seems that people are turning to/recommending more and more aggressive methods.



For example, when the new 105 came out, it seems the vast majority now start with 105 whether it's needed or not.



minor water spots that can't be removed via polish and only seen if you really look for them - wetsand.



a scratch nobody will see except you when you wash the car - wetsand



orange peel on your 2005 civic daily driver that sees 40k miles/yr - wetsand



It seems almost every 3rd thread was a wetsand recommendation; I don't remember that happening yeaaaaaaaaaaars ago.



Maybe it's just me? :)
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I think there are more good threads on scratch repair and wetsanding now than before. Thus having more people doing it. Lots of threads on newbies to wetsanding doing it with amazing results myself included.
 
I think that most really don't understand that newer cars have very little paint on them in most cases. I read a thread where a guy sanded an Acura CL to remove the OP. That's taking paint that's bound to fail and pretty much putting a guarantee on it!
 
Wetasanding is not something everyone should be doing. Lets think about this for a second. The average new car clearcoat is about as thick as a sheet of notebook paper. Just to put in perspective of what your truely sanding. Now when sanding there are so many different varibles that come to play. wetsanding, drysanding. 1000 grit to 3000 grit. no sanding pad, block, sanding pad. Now there is is the paint clean enough to sand? what happens if on piece of dirt so small gets in between the paper and and paint. how much pressure to apply. is the paint soft? was it polished before? was it sanded before? was it compound improperly or to aggressive before? does my paint meter read this paint and so on...... Hopefully now you understand what is involved. OK so we sanded a spot on the car? lol whats next. I take a machine and run it at at minimum 1000 rpms to build up heat and friction with a chemical abrasive and a wool or foam abbrasive to remove scratched from something as thing as a piece. Then im gonna create more heat with a softer pad and polish. ok now that all the steps are in play here. Think to yourselves did you go threw the uv coating in the clear which is on the top 35% of the clear. so now I'm asking did you you remove 1/3 of a piece of notebook paper? The uv thing is controvsal. I know this. Just thought I would throw in some real ideas of what your truely doing when wetsanding. LOL by the way these thoughts are coming from some one who really sands a lot! sanding is something that can make or break a detailer. To me its what makes a true pro or some one who isn't. To sum it up I think people do turn to it to fast without truely knowing what there doing.
 
bufferbarry said:
Wetasanding is not something everyone should be doing. Lets think about this for a .............. it up I think people do turn to it to fast without truely knowing what there doing.
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+1

i am not a pro in wetsand , is a knife with 2 blades. i use 3k when round deep scratches after i measure the paint to make sure is enough to remain after process.
 
Legacy99 said:
I think there are more good threads on scratch repair and wetsanding now than before. Thus having more people doing it. Lots of threads on newbies to wetsanding doing it with amazing results myself included.
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But who's to say what amazing results are - anybody can take some 3000grit and start rubbing and hope they don't strike the clear. Unless you have a PTG, you really have no idea what you did or how amazing the results are (other than visually)
 
I think what the OP is trying to say is that people are no longer using the least aggressive method first.



I saw a thread where there was a pretty badly hologrammed black car with soft paint. The detailer immediately jumped to PFW/M105 instead of trying something else first, and then saying it didn't make a dent in the swirls. Well no ****, that's because it was so aggressive, he was adding his own. Then he complained about how hard it was to finish down because of how soft the paint was.



Should always start with a less aggressive method before compounding or wetsanding. Wetsanding, like Barry said, is a great method when used properly, but then morons abuse it and use it for something like removing a minor scratch that a compound and polish easily would have taken care of with much less paint wasted.
 
I noticed that around here too. I find it pretty weird to use aggressive stuff. My own vehicles need a polish once in a while but very rarely have I needed to use compound, especially on a whole car.



I stay away from sand paper, if the defect is so bad it needs sanding, then I will learn to live with that defect instead of going a little too far.



I have seen some pretty severe holos (body shop job) that came out with OP on white. I could have left it with that except under the holos were 1500 grit tracers. That did require PFW and some fairly aggressive stuff. I didn't feel bad about it though, the paint guy sprayed extra clear on it for me to work with.





I guess I am willing to live with some rids here and there to preserve CC. Resprays are costly and I can't see the new paint being quite like the original.
 
scary bill said:
I noticed that around here too.
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Could just be me, but it's not only not just here.



Several years ago I rarely heard local detailers talking about wetsanding. Now, it's like almost every job involves wetsanding. One guy was telling me how he now believes you have to wetsand the ENTIRE car with 1500 every 2-3yrs. Another was telling me how she could wetsand a panel with 2500 for hours on end and never end up going through the clear because it "isn't that abrassive"
 
efnfast said:
Could just be me, but it's not only not just here.



Several years ago I rarely heard local detailers talking about wetsanding. Now, it's like almost every job involves wetsanding. One guy was telling me how he now believes you have to wetsand the ENTIRE car with 1500 every 2-3yrs. Another was telling me how she could wetsand a panel with 2500 for hours on end and never end up going through the clear because it "isn't that abrassive"
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LOL gotta love the "experts". If you sand factory clear, you are asking for failure down the road. On *good* resprays and custom jobs you might have enough clear to play with a few times.



If some one is good enough and has the tools, then go a head and sand. There are a lot of post lately about oops's. Like with most things in life, great results "in the hands of a pro". :bigups
 
Most wet-sanding is done at the body shop level, in fact the majority of it.



The difference being that if a car is going to be sanded the painter is aware of this and takes this into consideration when spraying paint and will usually spray more paint so the guy that's going to do the wet-sanding, cutting and buffing will have a some extra film-build to work with.



Also, the paint is usually sanded within days after the car comes out of the booth, all shops are different so there's no hard set rule as to when the sanding and buffing are done.



Fresh paint is easier to sand and buff than paint that is baked on at the factory level usually at very high temperatures. And as stated, compared to a paint job sprayed at a body shop where the painter knows the car is going to be sanded, factory paint jobs are very thin.



Me personally I would never sand down a factory paint job for money, just not worth the risk to me. To others... have at it and good luck.



Even if you don't run into any problems during the sanding process, remember the buffing steps are also going to remove paint also and that's where you'll usually run into problems.



I have been there and done that and won't do it again mostly because it's not worth the risk which is another way of saying it's not worth the money.



As for using the least aggressive product to get the job done, when it comes to SMAT products, these new products go against the grain of traditional practices because they are only as aggressive as you work them. For lighter cut, use less pressure, a less aggressive pad and don't buff as long.



:)
 
I think the issue is always the "bigger is better" ideal. If using 105 on an orange pad will knock out those nasty spider webbing / micro marring then great gimme gimme gimme! But you could remove less clear and still be good using something less agressive and just take a little more time. I tell my customers on the trip around the car what scratches will or will not come out and give them the option of living with them and keeping the clear thicker or trying to get them out and thinning the clear down - I've only had one ask me to go for it and that was on a bad bunch of scratches on the hood of a Lexus (old Lexus), most (99%) of the details I do - they just want a clean shiney car, and wouldn't know a swirl from a doughnut. It's the thrashed interiors they're more concerned with!
 
I was one of those recent posts that made a mistake in using the wet sanding method. 3000 grits paper. It did get out the problem areas I had but made it almost as bad by leaving light sanding marks. I tried Meguiars Ultimate Compound first but it only lighten them somewhat. And after being recommended to use from this site I used Meguiars Mirror Glaze #105 Ultra-Cut Compound. This was all done by hand. The 105 helped and now you can only see some swirl marks if you look really really close. But it wasn’t worth the hassle. Plus I do not know how much clear coat I have left. Luckily it was only on my trunk lid.



I did not get the wet sanding idea from this site. I will definitely use all the recommendations I receive from this site. You all helped a lot. So amateurs beware… DO NOT WETSAND! You will be doing more harm to your cars paint than good.
 
Only time I wet sand is when the car has been repainted. On a VERY rare occasion I may sand a deep scratch, but 99% of the time I will simply tell the owner it isn't worth chasing.





I think a lot of the threads where you see people damaging the paint from wet sanding (strike thru) is the ones where the users are trying to touch up rock chips and sand them smooth. I see it time and time again which is why I always tell them to just touch it up with paint and leave it at that.
 
efnfast said:
But who's to say what amazing results are - anybody can take some 3000grit and start rubbing and hope they don't strike the clear. Unless you have a PTG, you really have no idea what you did or how amazing the results are (other than visually)
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How do you measure your results? After polishing do you have any other way to judge your results other than visually? Btw a PTG will only give you an estimate as it will not measure the clear itself. I'm aware of gauges that can do this, but at a prohibitive price for most. I've wetsanded several times with good results. In my case, I did not strike thru the clear, but if I did, I was willing to do a re-paint on that panel. Just couldn't live with that scratch and rock chip.
 
I my detailing career, 20+ years I have went through the clear 4 times. The first 2 were my fault, the last 2 were the customers fault.



On the last one I fixed a silver Nissan hood with a scratch across it. Was told to keep going after I warned him what would happen. The clear was thinned in one area, it was barely noticeable. Well 3 years latter I washed the car again and the spot was exactly the same. Clear didn't peel or paint fade. The car wasn't waxed regularly.
 
salty said:
I my detailing career, 20+ years I have went through the clear 4 times. The first 2 were my fault, the last 2 were the customers fault.



On the last one I fixed a silver Nissan hood with a scratch across it. Was told to keep going after I warned him what would happen. The clear was thinned in one area, it was barely noticeable. Well 3 years latter I washed the car again and the spot was exactly the same. Clear didn't peel or paint fade. The car wasn't waxed regularly.
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Great feedback. :2thumbs:
 
I tried wetsanding to reduce pitting and etching on my TA's hood. Sure it made an improvement but I still have some tracers that can't be fully removed.



My advice is that no pro should wetsand a factory finish-it isn't worth the risk. Too many posts here sound like-"hit it with some 2000 grit and some M105 and it'll look perfect". I agree with Mike Phillips-it isn't worth the risk.
 
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