I can't stand Meguiars' DACP...

BillyBarou said:
I think its a bit sad for you to assume that my polishing skills are weak. What basis do you have for assuming that?
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You use DACP once, have problems and automatically assume it must be DACP???



Also I thought Autopia was for candid discussions. Why does making a negative observation on a product equate to bashing? Is Megs a protected brand on this board?
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Several of us have asked you for details on how you used it but, instead you point to threads that support your assertion rather than looking for help.



I was careful not to use too much polish but it still gums up a bit on me. I just think there are other products out there that perform better.
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Exactly how much did you use? Rotary or PC?? Did you work it until it started to dust or was it still wet when you stopped??



I don't think anyone said DACP was the best product out there but, it does work.
 
BillyBarou said:
I think its a bit sad for you to assume that my polishing skills are weak. What basis do you have for assuming that?
Click to expand...



You use DACP once, have problems and automatically assume it must be DACP???



Also I thought Autopia was for candid discussions. Why does making a negative observation on a product equate to bashing? Is Megs a protected brand on this board?
Click to expand...



Several of us have asked you for details on how you used it but, instead you point to threads that support your assertion rather than looking for help.



I was careful not to use too much polish but it still gums up a bit on me. I just think there are other products out there that perform better.
Click to expand...



Exactly how much did you use? Rotary or PC?? Did you work it until it started to dust or was it still wet when you stopped??



I don't think anyone said DACP was the best product out there but, it does work.
 
Can I step in and add something?



#83 is definitely not the easiest product to use. It takes some balancing of pad, product, machine speed, area worked, and time worked. But once you get the hang of it, it does exactly what it is supposed to do. Is it "the best"? That term has no meaning in the context of this discussion, just like "not a good product" has no meaning. The car either shines or it doesn't, and everything else is meaningless.



With the wide range of products available, there might very well be something that fits a particular user's style of working better than #83. If the SSRs make working easier for you and the car shines when you're done, then that's what you should use.



If you want to figure out how to use up that #83 though, experiment a little.



Are you using the PC? The most common complaint is what looks like scuffing. There's a very small point where the balance of amount of product, time worked, and area worked all fit together. If you have any of these wrong, you'll get that scuffing. If your pad is gumming up, press an old microfiber towel into it. I don't like spraying it or washing it out because I've found the water affects the way the product works, extending too long the time before it starts to dry.



Are you using the rotary? The most common complaint is then gumming of the pad. You just have to spur it more often.



To reiterate, the product works and works well. Other products work as well and might suit you better. Pick the one that works best for you!





Tom
 
Can I step in and add something?



#83 is definitely not the easiest product to use. It takes some balancing of pad, product, machine speed, area worked, and time worked. But once you get the hang of it, it does exactly what it is supposed to do. Is it "the best"? That term has no meaning in the context of this discussion, just like "not a good product" has no meaning. The car either shines or it doesn't, and everything else is meaningless.



With the wide range of products available, there might very well be something that fits a particular user's style of working better than #83. If the SSRs make working easier for you and the car shines when you're done, then that's what you should use.



If you want to figure out how to use up that #83 though, experiment a little.



Are you using the PC? The most common complaint is what looks like scuffing. There's a very small point where the balance of amount of product, time worked, and area worked all fit together. If you have any of these wrong, you'll get that scuffing. If your pad is gumming up, press an old microfiber towel into it. I don't like spraying it or washing it out because I've found the water affects the way the product works, extending too long the time before it starts to dry.



Are you using the rotary? The most common complaint is then gumming of the pad. You just have to spur it more often.



To reiterate, the product works and works well. Other products work as well and might suit you better. Pick the one that works best for you!





Tom
 
Mosca, didn't you have a thread a long time ago with pics on how to use dacp? or was it ip?



As a side, does anyone think it is funny that DACP has such a learning curve when it's title is dual action cleaner polish? it was designed for pc's correct? I'm probably wrong, but i could have sworn i read that a long time ago. I mean if it was a product designed for rotarys and people were having problems with it on a pc i understand, but that shouldn't really happen in this case.
 
Mosca, didn't you have a thread a long time ago with pics on how to use dacp? or was it ip?



As a side, does anyone think it is funny that DACP has such a learning curve when it's title is dual action cleaner polish? it was designed for pc's correct? I'm probably wrong, but i could have sworn i read that a long time ago. I mean if it was a product designed for rotarys and people were having problems with it on a pc i understand, but that shouldn't really happen in this case.
 
hadboosttroy said:
Mosca, didn't you have a thread a long time ago with pics on how to use dacp? or was it ip?



As a side, does anyone think it is funny that DACP has such a learning curve when it's title is dual action cleaner polish? it was designed for pc's correct? I'm probably wrong, but i could have sworn i read that a long time ago. I mean if it was a product designed for rotarys and people were having problems with it on a pc i understand, but that shouldn't really happen in this case.
Click to expand...



The name Dual Action Cleaner Polish doesn't really have anything to do with PC. It refers to the abrasives in DACP. DACP uses diminishing abrasives that start out agressive and diminish in abrasiveness as the product is worked. "Dual Action" means it starts out agressive and finishes as a fine finishing polish.
 
hadboosttroy said:
Mosca, didn't you have a thread a long time ago with pics on how to use dacp? or was it ip?



As a side, does anyone think it is funny that DACP has such a learning curve when it's title is dual action cleaner polish? it was designed for pc's correct? I'm probably wrong, but i could have sworn i read that a long time ago. I mean if it was a product designed for rotarys and people were having problems with it on a pc i understand, but that shouldn't really happen in this case.
Click to expand...



The name Dual Action Cleaner Polish doesn't really have anything to do with PC. It refers to the abrasives in DACP. DACP uses diminishing abrasives that start out agressive and diminish in abrasiveness as the product is worked. "Dual Action" means it starts out agressive and finishes as a fine finishing polish.
 
Yeah, I had a thread, but it was really on how to get the PC to get rotary-like results. Within that system, the scuffing is not important and I let the product scuff, so I didn't think Billy would find it helpful. I'll admit, even as a Meguiar's devotee, to finding #83 hard to get consistent results from and to preferring IP and FP. I'm just not that experienced. But I've found #s 80 and 82 to be really excellent, and I get repeatable results from them. And I know several people with superior technique and experience who take #83 and use it perfectly every time, going right from #83 to LSP.



That's why I say, rather than slagging the product it's better to say I'm having problems with it, asking who else might be having problems, asking how they solved them, and asking what else they've tried that might produce the results desired.





Tom
 
Yeah, I had a thread, but it was really on how to get the PC to get rotary-like results. Within that system, the scuffing is not important and I let the product scuff, so I didn't think Billy would find it helpful. I'll admit, even as a Meguiar's devotee, to finding #83 hard to get consistent results from and to preferring IP and FP. I'm just not that experienced. But I've found #s 80 and 82 to be really excellent, and I get repeatable results from them. And I know several people with superior technique and experience who take #83 and use it perfectly every time, going right from #83 to LSP.



That's why I say, rather than slagging the product it's better to say I'm having problems with it, asking who else might be having problems, asking how they solved them, and asking what else they've tried that might produce the results desired.





Tom
 
[Uh-oh, rant coming on..]



I generally subscribe to the "poor craftsman blames his tools" bit, as I've seen it in many areas of endeavor. But I dunno if everyone *needs* to be a master craftsman. I know guys who can do some incredible things with basic hand tools, but I don't blame somebody else who uses a CADCAM machine to do the same thing- at least they get the job done. Same with marksmen who need a scope to do what others can do with open sights, photographers who need auto-everything, etc. etc.



When it comes to detailing products, all that matters to me is the final result and how the detailer feels about achieving it. Does the vehicle look good and did the detailer find the process OK (or even fun/satisfying/etc.). If so, cool.



If a product is hard for me to use properly, and another product is easy for me to use properly and *gives the same result*, then I don't spend a minute trying to "master" the harder-to-use product. Life is too short and if the results are what I want then I can't see any reason to work harder.



It's just wax (or here, polish ;) ). If it's not fun, let alone if it's a pain, then use something that's *not* a pain. I don't see any need for "hard work builds character"/"learn to be a zen master" type struggles with this stuff.



[End of rant :o]



Back OT, I find certain alternatives to #83 (and plenty of other products) to be virtually idiot-proof, so I use them instead.



Similarly, I try to guide people in the use of KSG because I find it easy to use and I think the durability is just incredible. But after somebody tries my suggestions and still finds it a PIA, then I sure wouldn't blame them for using something else. Same for products like #83.
 
[Uh-oh, rant coming on..]



I generally subscribe to the "poor craftsman blames his tools" bit, as I've seen it in many areas of endeavor. But I dunno if everyone *needs* to be a master craftsman. I know guys who can do some incredible things with basic hand tools, but I don't blame somebody else who uses a CADCAM machine to do the same thing- at least they get the job done. Same with marksmen who need a scope to do what others can do with open sights, photographers who need auto-everything, etc. etc.



When it comes to detailing products, all that matters to me is the final result and how the detailer feels about achieving it. Does the vehicle look good and did the detailer find the process OK (or even fun/satisfying/etc.). If so, cool.



If a product is hard for me to use properly, and another product is easy for me to use properly and *gives the same result*, then I don't spend a minute trying to "master" the harder-to-use product. Life is too short and if the results are what I want then I can't see any reason to work harder.



It's just wax (or here, polish ;) ). If it's not fun, let alone if it's a pain, then use something that's *not* a pain. I don't see any need for "hard work builds character"/"learn to be a zen master" type struggles with this stuff.



[End of rant :o]



Back OT, I find certain alternatives to #83 (and plenty of other products) to be virtually idiot-proof, so I use them instead.



Similarly, I try to guide people in the use of KSG because I find it easy to use and I think the durability is just incredible. But after somebody tries my suggestions and still finds it a PIA, then I sure wouldn't blame them for using something else. Same for products like #83.
 
when you deal with a 'dimishing abrasive' product, most assume you have to 'work' it for a long time, till it dries, and dusts away...



but I find that not to be the case with #83. you work it at slower speed, and just till it flashes (changes to clear) and starts to evaporate. then wipe off still WET.



that was the learning curve for me. takes less time actually, but the MF loads up quick. I like #83 as do thousands of others!!
 
when you deal with a 'dimishing abrasive' product, most assume you have to 'work' it for a long time, till it dries, and dusts away...



but I find that not to be the case with #83. you work it at slower speed, and just till it flashes (changes to clear) and starts to evaporate. then wipe off still WET.



that was the learning curve for me. takes less time actually, but the MF loads up quick. I like #83 as do thousands of others!!
 
I've used probably half my bottle of DACP and have learned to hate it. No matter what I do, I always I have problems with it either gumming up or dusting up. Lots of pressure, little bit of pressure. Cutting pad, polishing pad. Speed 4, Speed 6.



Then I tried Optimum polish a couple months ago. No matter what I did, I had zero problems with it. I've found something that's easier / better for my uses, so DACP will just sit on the back of the shelf until I decide to throw it out. Not worth the hassle.
 
I've used probably half my bottle of DACP and have learned to hate it. No matter what I do, I always I have problems with it either gumming up or dusting up. Lots of pressure, little bit of pressure. Cutting pad, polishing pad. Speed 4, Speed 6.



Then I tried Optimum polish a couple months ago. No matter what I did, I had zero problems with it. I've found something that's easier / better for my uses, so DACP will just sit on the back of the shelf until I decide to throw it out. Not worth the hassle.
 
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