how to prevent swirls on new paintwork?

B

BMW_M

New member
Hello!

My first post and problem:sadwavey:

I am owner of a beautiful BMW E30 coupe, fresh painted 3 months ago in original diamond black metalic. First month I washed it at selfservice with destilated water without drying after wash, results are great but sometimes dirt doesn't come off complete:idea

So I decided to wash the car at home, I bought all equipment and started.

After 5-6 washings the car was full of swirls on doors and roof...I was really pissed off.

My method is: 2 buckets, washing mitt (gentle one), and drying with synthetic chamois, which is quite soft. Those swirls are not in circle, just loooong lines! Looks awfull in sunny place.

What am I doing wrong?:wall Give me advice:help:
 
Those are not swirls, they're scratches! Are you "washing" it with just water? If not, what are you using? Following dilution instructions? Did you clay it?



I think this is a good excuse to get a machine (UDM, PC, Festool), some pads and polishes, waxes/sealants, and get initiated as a full-fledged Autopian! If you don't want to take the plunge, I'd recommend getting it done professionally to remove the scratches and swirls, contaminants, cleaned and waxed. Then, maintain it yourself thereafter.



Oh, BTW, welcome aboard! :grinno:
 
Take the time to figure out your problem. Wash a little bit, then check your work. Continue with drying. Most damage is usually done in the washing stage, because of the dirt. But your drying could be too harsh.
 
well, I am outside of the US, eastern Europe:D

I am using one bucket filled with water and Sonax shampoo, second bucket is only with fresh water. I just can't figure it out. I am washing slowly, firm and soft, before wash I rinse the whole car twice with mini-wash, never using my mitt for paintwork on rims etc...

I could take a shot with mobile phone so you could see those ''scratches''.

Thanks
 
Time to sped some time reading on this site. These questions are asked on a daily basis. Take some time to search for proper washing techniques and I can guarantee you will find way more info than you are willing to read.



You have a black car, be prepared for frustration at every turn. Technique is key. SEARCH, READ, LEARN, and ASK when you don't understand a concept.



THis is a great community. We all like to share and help, but to show-up and ask a generalized question like, "how do I wash my car?" will not bode well within a detailing community full of OCD personalities.



JJ
 
BMW_M said:
My method is: 2 buckets, washing mitt (gentle one), and drying with synthetic chamois, which is quite soft. Those swirls are not in circle, just loooong lines! Looks awfull in sunny place.

What am I doing wrong?:wall Give me advice:help:
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My suspicion is with the drying technique. Chamois can trap small dirt particles which may be scratching. Also, if you are drying with straight lines and you state the lines are straight I would look to that part of your process.



I agree black is beautiful but difficult to keep looking perfect.



Good luck.
 
smprince1 said:
My suspicion is with the drying technique. Chamois can trap small dirt particles which may be scratching. Also, if you are drying with straight lines and you state the lines are straight I would look to that part of your process.



I agree black is beautiful but difficult to keep looking perfect.



Good luck.
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I was thinking the same thing.



Do you have a picture as it could be holograms.
 
First of all it will take that paint a while to really harden. As for washing, I use a sheepskin mit and I put absolutely no pressure on it when going over the vehilce. I basically drag it across. I prefer using Meguiars Gold Class shampoo myself because it is extremely slick. Another thing, make sure the vehicle is cool when you are doing it. My paint seems to be softer when it is really hot so I park in a shade and hose it down really good to cool the metal. As for drying, I fold the waffle weave in half and drag it across the paint not rub.
 
zingyginger said:
+1 chamois/drying - blotting is a good technique



other possibility - how much pressure do you use with your wash mitt? and is it sopping wet with shampoo solution when you use it?



this video might be worth watching, it has all the tricks in the book for washing:

How to Wash Your Car (Showcar style!)
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Thanks for that link! I was unaware those videos were on the internet for viewing!
 
I'd have thought the towel is the most likely suspect, if by chamois you mean the same as I'd think, which is one of those yellowy spongy cloths that has no pile/nap whatsoever?



I'd try a good quality drying towel. I've just got, and really really like, the Aquatouch FBZ's, huge and very plush and absorbent.
 
BMW_M- Welcome to Autopia!



Sorry to hear about the marring on your new paintwork. Keeping paint marring-free is easier said/explained than done!



Now that it's been three months since it was sprayed, it should be pretty much cured...you might give it another few weeks to be on the safe side. Once it's cured, and you get the marring corrected you can protect it with wax, which will make the washes a little easier.



A few ideas:



Test your wash/dry media on the data side of a CD. If they scratch it they're quite probably going to scratch your paint. Test the wash media the way you use it- wet with wash solution (*NOT* dry) using the amount of pressure you exert when you wash (which should be minimal). Then rinse off the CD and inspect for marring...if it got scratched you need a softer wash mitt. Then dry the CD with your chamois/drying towel and see if it gets scratched by that. I only use stuff that doesn't scratch.



When washing, try filling the mitt with wash solution and holding the cuff shut (so it's like a bag with shampoo mix inside). Gently whisk the mitt against the paint while the shampoo seeps out, this will a) result in minimal contact pressure and b) have lubrication/flushing from the seeping shampoo mix. When all the shampoo has seeped out of the mitt, rinse it out and refill it the same way. By not wearing it like a glove you'll cause less marring.



Don't try to cover large areas at once if the car is very dirty. If it's likely that the mitt got dirty, stop washing, rinse it out, and refill it with solution. Any dirt that's trapped in the wash/dry media can make it behave like sandpaper. Filling the mitt with solution will help in this regard, but it won't completely eliminate the potential for trouble.



Also, try to move the mitt in short, interrupted "jiggling" motions, not long swipes. When you see the long scratches it tells me that something got trapped and dragged across the paint. If you do short motions a) the abrasive stuff might get flushed away during one of the pauses and b) if you do get scratches, a short one a few centimeters long won't show as badly as one that's half a meter long. The blotting when you dry is a similar approach applied to the drying phase.



If there's any chance that the chamois/drying media has become dirty, I'd either clean it or get out another one...remember the analogy about dirty wash/dry media and sandpaper ;)
 
Guys where can I get a good sheepskin wash mitt? It seems thats what everyone swears by but I cant seem to find a nice real one... I have been using the white Megs MF wash mitts...
 
my technique is this:



I never use presure when wash, my car is washed every week and never gets so much dirty.

I've noticed that mitt has some small particles inside (like dirt) but I can't remove them in fresh water. Maybe they are scratching the paint? Those long scrathes I noticed on passenger doors in sunny place.

Also I am watching that car is in shady place, with no sun, with cold paint (in garage before wash), I am really giving a best from myself when wash and again making those awfull swirls.

Pisses me off when I see my dad's VW Golf with silver paint, and not a single scratch on it.:)

I will try this CD method before next wash, If nothing get better in few weeks, I am going to selfwashing. I hate it, but it's touchless for the paint.:werd:

Here is a shot:
 

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BMW_M said:
.. my car is washed every week and never gets so much dirty..
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Even just a little dirt can cause big problems if it's *abrasive* dirt ;)



I've noticed that mitt has some small particles inside (like dirt) but I can't remove them in fresh water. Maybe they are scratching the paint?
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I'd assume that they are scratching and delegate that mitt to wheel duty.



..I am really giving a best from myself when wash and again making those awfull swirls.

Pisses me off when I see my dad's VW Golf with silver paint, and not a single scratch on it...
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Washing without marring is a lot harder than most people could ever imagine, took me *years* to get it under control. And I'd bet my life that the silver VW has marring too, silver just hides it well. I have a bunch of silver cars and when they get marred nobody notices it except me.



Try the fill-the-mitt approach and remember to stop using long strokes. And blot when you dry. Just those three little changes should help quite a bit.



I will try this CD method before next wash, If nothing get better in few weeks, I am going to selfwashing. I hate it, but it's touchless for the paint..
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The (potential) problems with touchless washes include: a) they don't get the vehicle truly *clean* and the residual dirt causes scratches if/when you dry it manually, and b) the strong detergents can strip wax even though they don't clean all that well.



You'd need it cleaner than the touchless will get it before you polish/wax or you'll be rubbing dirt into the paint, making the problem worse. But using the touchless, not drying the car manually (use their forced-air dryers if they have them or just drive the car home), and then washing it again (very carefully ;) ) at home might be a good idea; the touchless would get the worst of the dirt off most of the car.
 
BMW_M said:
Here is a shot:
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Dude that's nothing. You should see what my dealership did to my car...



So another quest for the perfect car wash begins. :hairpull



Best thing i can tell you is take your time and be as thorough as possible. It takes very little to mar the paint. Make sure your wash media is completely clean before you put it in the soap bucket. Try to rinse as much dirt off the panel with the hose before you put the mitt to it. If you drop the mitt on the ground, it's time to grab one of the spares. When it comes to drying, try to touch the car as little as possible. Try to blot the water off, don't drag the towel across the surface. But in the end it really is about experimentation and finding out what works for you.



Oh yeah and listen to Accumulator. That guy knows his stuff!
 
that's excactly what my brother said: nothing!

You need to se black/blue/green cars in my neighbourhood, they are FULL of swirls, dents...awfull, in sun they look 30 years old.

I really apriciate your help, tommorow I will test mitt and towel on a CD, and wash the car using your advices, hope it would be better.

So, you think that selfservice is not so good as they told? Best washing hand washing?:D
 
Anyone know if someone has performed a long term test comparing the blotting dry method verses the gliding dry method? (i.e. drying half your car one way and the other half the other way and when it's time to repolish see the difference between both sides).



I've heard that blotting is probably better, but who really knows.
 
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