How to know if a product is on/still on?

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philliptmurphy

New member
This is a serious question (and maybe it has been discussed and I don't know what to search for)...

How do you KNOW that a product is on your car? For example, I see comments similar to this: "I put on brand X of wax, and it stripped my sealant right off!" How do they know that?

And then long-term, how do you know when a product has worn off? With today's clear coats, beading is not an indication that a product is still holding up. I see posts like: "My brand X of sealant lasted 8 months." How do they know that?

Hope everyone has a great week!
 
Welcome! Interesting question for your first post.

For how long something lasts, it depends on the person. It has to do with slickness, beading, and possibly even hiding (for some using fillers).

I never have had a soap strip a sealant with any degree. I always rely on a dedicated paint cleaner (chemical cleaners) to do it. I had heard a comment that no ph balanced soap (one around ph7) will likely strip in any dilution. I have never used Dawn but skeptical of its effectiveness.
 
If your asking how to tell when it is worn away, that is a little tougher and for me when the beads lie flat and a good wash with some APC or Reset wont bring them back, it gone.

Not the most scientific of testing but it is what I use.
 
Welcome, PhilliptMurphy -

If you perform the steps needed to apply a spray on quick detailer, spray wax, paste wax, sealant, sealer, coating, etc., to your vehicle, you will be able to tell it is on there because the paint is more slippery, water will not stay on the paint as easily, it will feel smoother to the touch, the paint will have a higher level of shine, gloss, clarity....

If your perform the steps needed to properly prepare the paint to receive the above, the product will last longer, because it will adhere better to the paint surface, all things being equal...

As the product wears off or washes off, the paint will not feel as smooth, slippery, and water will not bead and run off as quickly.. The paint will lose its gloss and even clarity after awhile, depending on how much junk from the air falls on the car all the time - especially if left outside 24 x 7...

Automatic drive through car washes for example, use a very strong soap solution to get your car as clean as possible in one pass through the tunnel. These kinds of things will accelerate the removal of most products out there today except for some Coatings..

Regarding today's clear coats - in my experience, new, clean, just painted vehicles, or vehicles that have been properly cleaned using a claybar/towel, and compounding, etc., will bead water like a son of a gun..
Then, after awhile, all kinds of junk from the air along will get into the paint and it will not be as clean any longer and will not bead water as before..
Left this way long enough, the paintwork not bead anymore and water will lay on it in sheets and eventually fall off..

Does this help ?
Dan F
 
Hard question to answer.

Doubt most of us here really let it get to the point of "being gone"
 
Thanks for the responses...

Bunky - why an interesting first question? I've been lurking for a few weeks - most everything else I have found an answer to... "search" is my friend. LOL By the way, just sold a truck that looks a lot like the one pictured in your avatar - it was a 1999 Dakota - had it for about 12 years.

So I was just curious... I have spent hours detailing the paint on my "new to me" car and as I was putting things on, wiping them, off, and then putting more stuff on, how do I really know any of it sticks/stays! LOL

My procedure was...

1. Wash thoroughly
2. Clay bar
3. Used Klasse All-in-One on a test section
4. Obvious it was not going to remove the minor scratched and swirls (clearcoat is as hard as a rock on this car!)
5. Used the Porter Cable, and orange pad, and Meguiar's Ultimate Compound to get out minor scratches and swirls (again, clearcoat hard - still took some work)
6. Did entire car with Klasse All-in-One
7. Two Coats of Klasse Sealant Glaze (may do a third - just put the second coat on this morning)
8. Will top off with P21S carnauba wax

Wife thinks I'm crazy - she thought it looked good before I even started! LOL
 
Stokdgs said:
Welcome, PhilliptMurphy -

If you perform the steps needed to apply a spray on quick detailer, spray wax, paste wax, sealant, sealer, coating, etc., to your vehicle, you will be able to tell it is on there because the paint is more slippery, water will not stay on the paint as easily, it will feel smoother to the touch, the paint will have a higher level of shine, gloss, clarity....

If your perform the steps needed to properly prepare the paint to receive the above, the product will last longer, because it will adhere better to the paint surface, all things being equal...

As the product wears off or washes off, the paint will not feel as smooth, slippery, and water will not bead and run off as quickly.. The paint will lose its gloss and even clarity after awhile, depending on how much junk from the air falls on the car all the time - especially if left outside 24 x 7...

Automatic drive through car washes for example, use a very strong soap solution to get your car as clean as possible in one pass through the tunnel. These kinds of things will accelerate the removal of most products out there today except for some Coatings..

Regarding today's clear coats - in my experience, new, clean, just painted vehicles, or vehicles that have been properly cleaned using a claybar/towel, and compounding, etc., will bead water like a son of a gun..
Then, after awhile, all kinds of junk from the air along will get into the paint and it will not be as clean any longer and will not bead water as before..
Left this way long enough, the paintwork not bead anymore and water will lay on it in sheets and eventually fall off..

Does this help ?
Dan F
Click to expand...


Good info.

There is a good rule of thumb from Michael Stoops over at Meguiar's Online that he basically states when your microfiber towel starts to feel grabby when using a quick detailer it's a good indication that it's time to reapply your LSP of choice.
 
philliptmurphy- Welcome to Autopia!

I don't so much worry about whether a product is still there, but rather whether some characteristic I value is/might be diminished.

"Beading doesn't mean squat" is popular dogma, but IMO once beading (or sheeting behavior if that's what the product does) changes, then IMO *something* has changed and not for the better.

If the slickness drops off and the finish feels "draggy", then again, something has changed for the worse.

If the finish doesn't shed dirt/etc. as well during a wash, somthing has changed for the worse.

And of course, if there's something so drastic that you *see* a difference, then I guess it's obvious.

While I prefer to stay ahead of the curve and reLSP (Last Step Product, i.e, , wax/sealant/coating) before it's really necessary, if I've let things go for so long that I notice any of those chages, then I know it's (past) time to redo.
 
philliptmurphy- You mentioned Klasse Sealant Glaze ("KSG") in particular, a product with which I have rather extensive experience.

Yes, it definitely *does* layer. My experience has always been that you need a minimum of four (and six is *MUCH* better) layers to really glean any benefit over more conventional products. Two layers will basically behave/protect/last about the same as a very durale wax such as Collinite 476S, so get more on there before topping with your P21s. Oops, too late ^_^ but hey who cares, the car looks great so just keep that in mind for next time.

Redo that P21s pretty regularly, it is very short-lived. Sooner or later you'll need to redo as the wax leaves a "dead wax"-type of artifact behind. Not really an issue until *you* notice it and decide that it is, so don't worry about it (nor let othes convince you that you need to do some huge-project redo before it's really needed).

Now you can concentrate on the wash/dry technique, with the objective being to not induce any new marring. That hard clear is a feature as long as you don't scratch it up!
 
Accumulator said:
philliptmurphy- You mentioned Klasse Sealant Glaze ("KSG") in particular, a product with which I have rather extensive experience.

Yes, it definitely *does* layer. My experience has always been that you need a minimum of four (and six is *MUCH* better) layers to really glean any benefit over more conventional products. Two layers will basically behave/protect/last about the same as a very durale wax such as Collinite 476S, so get more on there before topping with your P21s. Oops, too late ^_^ but hey who cares, the car looks great so just keep that in mind for next time.

Redo that P21s pretty regularly, it is very short-lived. Sooner or later you'll need to redo as the wax leaves a "dead wax"-type of artifact behind. Not really an issue until *you* notice it and decide that it is, so don't worry about it (nor let othes convince you that you need to do some huge-project redo before it's really needed).

Now you can concentrate on the wash/dry technique, with the objective being to not induce any new marring. That hard clear is a feature as long as you don't scratch it up!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the detailed information. SIX coats - wow! I did put three on, but wow! I'm really tired of playing the karate kid (wipe on/wipe off) at this point. Since you have used KSG a lot, quick question to make sure my procedure is OK...

1. Apply a thin coat of KSG using a microfiber applicator
2. Let Dry for 30 - 60 minutes
3. Take a clean microfiber towel and spray a couple of hits of Quick Detail and do initial wipe to get most of the KSG off
4. Final wipe with clean, dry microfiber towel

Does that sound OK?

And how long do you wait between coats? I have seen anywhere from 8 to 24 hours.

I will do the P21S about once a month I guess? The car is garaged on I only drive about 3-4K miles a year (work at home).

Wash and dry? Heck, if it's raining, I we take the wife's car! :-)
 
I like the klasse twins. I have used it a few times and it worked out really good. This is the method I learned from KlasseAct (member on autogeek) and when applying KSG.

1. Get a microfiber applicator
2. Pour about 2 oz of KSG into a travel size spray bottle
3. Dunk the applicator in a bowl of water to get it damp. Not wet just damp.
4. Apply 1-2 sprays (various by panel size) of KSG on a panel and work it in with the damp applicator
5. Work the area really well spreading the KSG around
6. Remove KSG after it's been worked it. No need to wait the 30-60 minutes. You are basically using it as WOWO
7. Repeat around the entire car and keeping the applicator damp and you are done.

This worked out really well when applying it this way. Not only is it time saving but it doesn't allow for klasse to be so finicky when applying and removing. It is also recommended to wait 12 hours or so in between coats. 2-3 coats seems to be good for KSG.

As I stated in your other thread, I got 7 months out of KSG and it was still going strong. I was using Sonus Acrylic Spritz and Acrylic Glanz to maintain it.
 
philliptmurphy (& The Guz too)- Different people do KSG differently, and most seem happy with their results whatever technique they use. Long-winded post follows:

Regarding ?how many layers?, again, opinions differ. I get a slightly improved appearance around four coats, with no discernable additional improvement after than. I get the best durability with six, but then I usually just wash it for ages so it's a bit of a torture-test (I worked up to six by experimenting on wheels). I do use the Sonus Acrylic Glanz now and then, primarily just because I have a bottle of it ..not sure I'm sold on it being worthwhile but it sure doesn't hurt and it only takes a moment.

Rather than the spray bottle method, I hold my foam applicator over the hole in the KSG bottle and shake it enough to deposit a tiny drop of product on the foam. Move foam, repeat. Repeat until there's an *EXTREMELY* small amount of KSG on the applicator, just enough that by scrunching the applicator up and rubbing it against itself I get it all slightly damp, just enough for it to glide over the panel without dragging. Then I wipe it on the panel. Refresh the KSG on applicator as needed with same method. Go by feel rather than sight- if you can clearly see the KSG on the paint you're using a *LOT* more than necessary (and so much that it can cause issues on textured trim).

That probably sounds nutty, but I'm downright fanatical about using a *minimal* amount of product. Easier to buff off, more likely to be a uniform application (at least for me), no wasted product.

I would often do an entire minivan/Suburban with many coats using less than an ounce; I'm still using the same bottle of KSG I bought ages ago (back around 2000...so much for shelf-life concerns!) and I still have a lot left despite doing countless applications and having also knocked it over and spilled it more than once. More importantly (hey, the stuff is cheap enough so wasting it doesn't bug me) I always credit that thin application with why I find it so easy to use and I worry that thick applications just might do a solvent-action that could interfere with layering if I apply those subsequent layers too soon (before the previous one has cured).

I use the W-O-W-O method when applying KSG to trim and plastic, but on paint I let it set up (enough to pass the finger-swipe test) before I buff it off. As I apply it too thinly for it to be clearly visible on the paint, when buffing it off I always 1) work methodically (this goes for applying too) and 2) fog the surface with my breath. That fogging provides a tiny bit of condensation that makes the product buff off easier (no need for QD, which just might interfere with layering the KSG) and also lets me see where the product has/has not already been buffed.

I've experimented with letting it set up for long periods of time, as long as several *days* and IME the longer you wait the easier it buffs off, even when I applied it silly-thick (the notable exception being textured trim, I DO NOT let it dry on those surfaces as any excess-product residue and be a PIA to get out of the texture). The conventional dogma has always been that it needs 24hrs to cure enough for effective layering, but I've always suspected that saying "wait a day" just sounds good and probably has no basis in fact. Still, I do wait at least 12 hours. FWIW, in case it matters, I work in a climate-controlled shop.

I'd often do my six layers, and then just wash for up to a *year*, sometimes even longer sometimes not as long, and that's even with spot-claying as needed (using Sonus SFX clay and a *VERY* gentle technique). That many layers has occasionally spared me from seemingly inevitable marring (real "oops!" moments where I expected paint damage but it didn't happen) due to the thick (you can clearly feel it) build-film, which I've never been able to duplicate with any other product. That, along with effective protection against etching, was/is my primary reason for liking the KSG- I could get by longer, and with a less meticulous technique, than with other products. Now that I have my wash all squared away, I get the same longevity/protection with FK1000P with a look that I generally like better and without the need for all that layering. But I still use the heavily-layered KSG on a few things where the marring-resistance is of paramount importance (e.g., the shiny/smooth black plastic sideview mirrors on my OBS Tahoe).
 
Thanks for the detailed response - much appreciated. I too another picture this morning - sun finally came out full...

BMW_Mirror.jpg
 
Yes indeed! I found a few little spots that needed the rest of the wax removed when I got it out of the garage, but a success for the most part.
 
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