How safe is it to use Cleaner Wax often?

Z

Zzpomzz

New member
So I recently moved to Florida and got a new car (Honda Fit). I’m a full time musician and don’t have a huge income and I use this car for everything I do. I plan on having it for awhile. So as you can imagine I want to keep it nice.

It rains a ridiculous amount here. Sometimes a few times a day. I can’t always go and dry it off. I use ultimate wax and have the waterless wax too but sometimes it just bakes on practically. I’ve been told by some people to use a 3-in-1 like Meguiars 3-in-1 which I bought to fix some swirls and I did two small coats and got the car looking awesome. I was super gentle and went by hand, and really the swirls didn’t come out too much if at all but seem less noticeable.

Some people have told me you could do this practically weekly by hand for years and almost no paint loss will happen. Others including a dude at a local auto shop chain told me twice a year and I could ruin the paint. I’m trying to find some truth here. If I did this a handful of times a year especially during rainy season, over a decade or more, am I removing an amount of paint that is bad?
 
Won’t let me edit my post but this was my method. Wash, clay, light coat of 3-in-1 by hand moderate fingertip pressure in swirls. I don’t push too hard. Is this actually removing microns over time or is that only with machines? Should I ditch the cleaner wax or go to a lighter grade cleaner wax?
 
Simple answer... Probably nothing to worry about. Go ahead and use it as often as you`d like.

Detailers answer...

If the product is abrasive, it is removing clear coat when you use it. As stated before, we are talking microns. You probably have plenty to work with but there is a finite amount of material to work with. The more you use it, the more you abrade away. Will it cause problems? Yes, EVENTUALLY. That could be years of repeated use though. There`s variables to consider such as what you`re using to rub it on the paint, how soft the paint is, how thick the paint is etc.

I would focus more on getting something with long lasting protection rather than opting for a cleaner wax every time. Correct it once, protect it after. Rain typically isn`t a thing to worry about like you would using water from your house. Rain is significantly more pure water than what is generally going thru ur pipes and will evaporate pretty much entirely without issue. Whatever dirt or debris you see left over was probably already sitting on the paint before it rained and the rain just kinda brought it all together as it dried up. A quick wipe down with a good QD should be all you need after some rain.
 
A cleaner wax is what it says, it more or less cleans or removes the old wax while putting down the new coat. To me once is week is an absurd amount of unneeded waxing. The cleaner wax will do but in my book once every 3-6 months is enough for that type of wax. If you wish to wax more get a spray on wax that is simple to use and do it as often as you wish. When I had my Camaro I waxed it about 3-4 times a year and I drove it year `round here in the north. I now have a pickup and it only sees wax once, maybe twice a year. The last couple years I owned the Camaro I had the thought that why touch or rub on the paint more than needed. I lost my interest in detailing which is why I bought a pickup and it gets very little attention and after 2 years of owning it the paint still looks like new, although this spring I actually polished it before waxing to get rid of some scuffs that had been on there since I bought it used.

Goodluck with the new car.
 
I am with skibik on this one: you are better off to use a spray wax more often that using a cleaner wax.

Then we get into the semantics of "What is a cleaner wax and what is an All-In-One wax and what is the difference?"
"General" or commonly held by detailers definition is: a cleaner wax uses chemical cleaners while an all-in-one uses use abrasives. But that is NOT necessarily true.
Klasse All-In-One (KAIO) uses chemical cleaners and is a sealant. Meg`s No.6 Cleaner Wax uses abrasives. Then you have the term One-Step Product, which muddies that All-In-One definition, and are sometime used interchangeably.
Then we get into the semantics of "wax" in a product name that has no wax in it, but is really a sealant. Meg`s Ultimate "Wax" is really a full-fledged sealant.
Wax to me means a product contains natural carnauba wax and/or beeswax, and not a "synthetic" man-made wax.
Still confused?

It would be nice to know what specific "cleaner wax" (car-care manufacturer and its product name and/or number) you are using and applying.

One other factor to consider is the age of the vehicle and the type of paint on it. Newer vehicles tend to have thinner clear coat/paint thicknesses on them. An older 80`s era vehicle may have a single stage paint on with no clear coat. Some vehicle`s have water-based clear coats that tend to crack and flake (1990`s-era GM`s are notorious for this).
So it would also be nice to know the year, make, model, and even the color of the vehicle you are using this "cleaner wax" on. Why color?? Red single-stage paints are notorious for fading, turning a dull,pinkish hue in the sun and will come off on a polishing cloth or foam pad when applying a "cleaner wax". White single-stage paints are harder because of the titanium dioxide used in the pigment for that paint, but they will get dirty, just like other paints, but show it more. Black just shows every swirl and imperfection and are a tell-tale sign of how well the owner/driver takes care of the exterior and if they are a true Obsessed-Compulsive Detailer (OCD) When complete strangers come up to your black car and ask "What do you use for a wax?" or you see women putting on lipstick or adjusting their hair as they peer into your black paint, you know you "have arrived" and are a true OCDer!!

Long answer short, it depends on what specific "cleaner wax" you are using and the age of the vehicle as to its "safety" in using it.
 
I would recommend switching to a sealant or a coating. I like sealants, as they are simple to apply, and there are several in the Autopia store - https://www.autopia-carcare.com/paint-sealants.html.
I have been using Four Star Ultimate Paint Protection for my cars and customer cars for the past couple of years. It was developed and is produced here in Florida (Bradenton) so they know what you need where it rains every day for 3 months of the year. It should last up to 6 months, even if the car is left outside.

But back to your original question, the cleaner wax should not have abrasives in it, just chemical cleaners, so when you use it you are removing the last application (if there is any left) when you apply the new one.
 
Just use your cleaner wax 3 or 4 times a year, then us spray wax every 3 weeks . If you use the spray wax every 3 to 4 weeks you may only need the cleaner wax 1 ore 2 times per year
 
Zzpomzz said:
Won’t let me edit my post but this was my method. Wash, clay, light coat of 3-in-1 by hand moderate fingertip pressure in swirls. I don’t push too hard. Is this actually removing microns over time or is that only with machines? Should I ditch the cleaner wax or go to a lighter grade cleaner wax?
Click to expand...

Welcome to Autopia!

Hey, this is right down my alley as the use of a CleanerWax (and I put a whole lot of products in that broad category) is something that I, and people I`ve known IRL, have done since forever with great results :D

When I say "broad category", I mean that products as different as the old 1Z Paint Polish, Klasse AIO, RainDance, oh man...anything that both "preps" in some way and also leaves protection behind, are all just variations on a theme to me.

Note that regular here know that I`m an absolute *FANATIC* about not removing unnecessary clearcoat, *never* coming close to compromising it enough to degrade the UV protection (and that doesn`t take much). That said...

VERY few of these products are abrasive enough that you need to be concerned and many like the Klasse AIO are functionall nonabrasive on almost all autopaints. But they shouldn`t be *needed* enough to ever give that any thought anyhow. As others have mentioned, 99.9% of the time, a quick spritz with a SprayWax as a Drying Aid will be plenty with regard to "regular waxing".

IME (and taht of all those people I know IRL who do this), the real trick is to top the CleanerWax with a Straight Wax after the next wash. If you use something like FK1000P, you can get by with the SprayWax Drying Aid approach for *months*, and only do the CleanerWax maybe twice/year..or whenever you discern an actual *reason* to reach for it. I`d even plan on refreshing the Fk1000P a number of times before ever needing the CleanerWax again, but I don`t know what your conditions are.

Oh, and FWIW, I use a mildly abrasive product of this type with my buffers, and with none-too-gentle pads too, all the time without removing even close to a micron. I suggest not letting people who don`t really know what they`re talking about advise you on this stuff ;)
 
Hey guys, sorry I couldn’t get back to this soon enough. To answer some questions.

The car is a new 2020 Honda Fit in Orange Fury. The wax is the 3-in-1 Meguiars. I actually managed to contact Meguiars and they told me that they feel if you lightly apply by hand the abrasives really do nothing when it comes to
clear coat removal and it’s just doing very gentle cleaning. They said I could do this once a month gently if I really wanted and it’d net no paint loss if I just applied lightly. But on the other hand more pressure and going over areas for awhile can do more but still not a ton, and then finally using cutting pads or buffers which will for sure do real correction.

I admittedly went a little crazy because I read a ton about this and bought a lot of stuff. After I cleaned the car the first time I noticed some swirl. I used a lot of microfibers so I think I washed off after using the cleaner the filler the dealership used. So I used the 3 in 1 and it looked nice, but I did overall two applications which was probably dumb honestly. I now have some regular wax and waterless wax and all that.

Regarding rain. After a wash and wax it had rained a ton the past day or two. Some days it’ll rain twice and there will be tons of water spots on the roof which sometimes I don’t catch which is partially why I asked about this. Overall I think my fear has been settled and I’ll keep using it every 4-6 months after the really rainy seasons or during build up and wash the car and regular Wax otherwise. I also feel like I didn’t do much with it since although the car looks nicer after the 3-in-1 the swirl is definitely still there so I think I was so gentle I just cleaned the paint literally and didn’t remove any paint. When it comes
down to it I care more about having the car last than making it
look like a show car...it’s not like it is one after all!!! I feel confident now using this product and
others will keep my car going for many years.
 
that’s why I came here! Haha. I just wanted to find a product that could occasionally get all that stuff that gets built up and you can’t wash out. Lots of guys were telling me it removes paint and I had never heard that. I just gently apply by hand, I’m not doing corrective work. What product do you use with the buffer? I know the 3-in-1 is apparently slightly less aggressive than Meguiars White Wax or similar to their polishing compound I believe using SMAT.

Accumulator said:
Welcome to Autopia!

Hey, this is right down my alley as the use of a CleanerWax (and I put a whole lot of products in that broad category) is something that I, and people I`ve known IRL, have done since forever with great results :D

When I say "broad category", I mean that products as different as the old 1Z Paint Polish, Klasse AIO, RainDance, oh man...anything that both "preps" in some way and also leaves protection behind, are all just variations on a theme to me.

Note that regular here know that I`m an absolute *FANATIC* about not removing unnecessary clearcoat, *never* coming close to compromising it enough to degrade the UV protection (and that doesn`t take much). That said...

VERY few of these products are abrasive enough that you need to be concerned and many like the Klasse AIO are functionall nonabrasive on almost all autopaints. But they shouldn`t be *needed* enough to ever give that any thought anyhow. As others have mentioned, 99.9% of the time, a quick spritz with a SprayWax as a Drying Aid will be plenty with regard to "regular waxing".

IME (and taht of all those people I know IRL who do this), the real trick is to top the CleanerWax with a Straight Wax after the next wash. If you use something like FK1000P, you can get by with the SprayWax Drying Aid approach for *months*, and only do the CleanerWax maybe twice/year..or whenever you discern an actual *reason* to reach for it. I`d even plan on refreshing the Fk1000P a number of times before ever needing the CleanerWax again, but I don`t know what your conditions are.

Oh, and FWIW, I use a mildly abrasive product of this type with my buffers, and with none-too-gentle pads too, all the time without removing even close to a micron. I suggest not letting people who don`t really know what they`re talking about advise you on this stuff ;)
Click to expand...
 
Zzpomzz- Regulars here are probably surprised that I`m not beating you over the keyboard with my FK1000P topper recommendation, but I`ll spare you this time :D

That`s a great car you have there! And I like that color too...great choice!
 
I’ll look it up for sure!!! I’m just glad to hear my whole program isn’t hurtful or anything. I’m gonna keep to it a few times a year and do regular waxing in between. I use this car for everything between travel and gigs (I’m a full time musician) so I need to make sure I’m being correct in my care.

Accumulator said:
Zzpomzz- Regulars here are probably surprised that I`m not beating you over the keyboard with my FK1000P topper recommendation, but I`ll spare you this time :D

That`s a great car you have there! And I like that color too...great choice!
Click to expand...
 
Cleaner Wax once in the spring and Spray Wax/Spray Sealant the rest of the year is more or less how I maintain the handful of daily drivers I take care of. If you need the extra protection a coat of Regular Wax/Sealant after the first wash like Accumulator suggests definitely can`t hurt. For any real swirl removal you`ll want to buy a polisher. If I`m correct in assuming you have all Meguiar`s products then they should all play nicely with each other.

You`re on the right track, have fun and don`t stress too much. If you`re still having issues with water spots, want to do some real swirl removal, or are having issues marring the paint during your wash, come back and we`ll give you some more suggestions.
 
Zzpomzz:
Thank you for informing us of your car and its color and the "cleaner wax" of Meg`s new 3-in-1 Wax. You are one of the first to post something on this new product. I say that because
I started a thread on this very product for more discussion from fellow Autopians` experiences, but NO ONE replied. (See https://www.autopia.org/forums/car-...ssion/190388-news-meg-3-1-wax.html?highlight=)

I do think that in your best interest to keep your new Fit`s Orange Fury exterior protected, you may want to consider using Meg`s new Pro Hybrid Ceramic Sealant M27.
I have NO experience with it but here is a thread from highly respected Autopian All-Star Mike lambert (my assessment) on this particular product:
https://www.autopia.org/forums/car-...n/191429-meguiars-m27-initial.html?highlight=

By the way, I see you have posted that you are a musician. What genre(s) of music do you play and what instrument(s) do you play and/or are you a singer?? It has been (and is) a very "difficult" time for musicians to get gigs with the pandemic going on.
 
I didn’t find a ton either Lonnie. But I will say Meguiars themselves were helpful and told me that gentle application pretty much means the cleaners have not much effect and you need to do more work for swirl removal. Essentially it’s like their white or black wax. I noticed it got some staining from my car and really made it have a deep shine. The swirls weren’t removed but that’s okay the car still looks awesome.

I play in a blues band called Doug Deming and the Jewel Tones. We are an international touring act and we usually are touring right now and also travel to Europe. Gigs have been spotty. Florida has been lax with the whole covid issue and we have been playing about half the time we once were. But we went two and a half months without any shows at the start of it all.

ive seen that wax and I have a ton now so eventually I might try it. I’m just glad to know I haven’t ruined or hurt anything.

Lonnie said:
Zzpomzz:
Thank you for informing us of your car and its color and the "cleaner wax" of Meg`s new 3-in-1 Wax. You are one of the first to post something on this new product. I say that because
I started a thread on this very product for more discussion from fellow Autopians` experiences, but NO ONE replied. (See https://www.autopia.org/forums/car-...ssion/190388-news-meg-3-1-wax.html?highlight=)

I do think that in your best interest to keep your new Fit`s Orange Fury exterior protected, you may want to consider using Meg`s new Pro Hybrid Ceramic Sealant M27.
I have NO experience with it but here is a thread from highly respected Autopian All-Star Mike lambert (my assessment) on this particular product:
https://www.autopia.org/forums/car-...n/191429-meguiars-m27-initial.html?highlight=

By the way, I see you have posted that you are a musician. What genre(s) of music do you play and what instrument(s) do you play and/or are you a singer?? It has been (and is) a very "difficult" time for musicians to get gigs with the pandemic going on.
Click to expand...
 
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