How much is 'too much' when it comes to polishing?

Jngrbrdman

Jngrbrdman

New member
Since there have been some comments about the lack of discussion lately I thought I'd get a question out there that I'm sure we have all thought about. Please post your thoughts.



How much polishing is too much for your car? If you only had access to products from 3M or Meguiar's and you were only using a PC then how many times do you think you could polish your car before you start going too far?



While polishing my car last week I noticed that the seam between my fender and my front bumper is looking a little grey. Its like something has rubbed the paint off in that area. I don't know what could have done it just there but it sort of signifies that my paint isn't overly thick. I've also been less satisfied with the shine of my car in the last 3 or 4 months. Could it be that I've cut down my clear too much?



I apply my products with a PC generally. I don't clay more than needed and I only seriously attack swirls maybe twice a year. Once in the spring and once in the fall. The rest of the time it is just lots of Klasse, Platinum and carnauba. Maybe now that my car just has one coat of UPP on it I am just disappointed that it doesn't shine like when I've got half a dozen layers of UPP layered between half a dozen coats of SG and topped with several coats of Souveran, PPG and P21S. Oh, and the one side of Vintage. Who knows....?



Has anyone ever actually seen clear coat failure due to polishing with a PC? I've always figured that they are pretty safe. I wouldn't think that polishing with Perfect It II a couple times and one round with SMR and #9 would do any damage. I still don't think it could. I don't think my clear is in any danger, but seriously... how much is too much?
 
I havent started with my pc yet but I wonder the same thing. The whole concept of removing clear to attack swirls really makes me uneasy. If its worth anything you have one of the nicest detailed cars I have seen.
 
It is a scary thought..polishing too much!



My brother had a Corvette that he polished once a month. Yup! He went through on one of the front fender edges; hence the black line underneath.



He could not stand not polishing it, but had no choice. I struggle with this all the time. When is enough really enough??



:confused:
 
I too have wondered how much is too much. Personally, I think you could break the clearcoat with enough polishing. I would think the best way to test would be to get a paint depth measurement tool, measure depth before any products, DACP (or similar product), then measure afterwards. I'm unsure if one application of a product would affect the clear enough to register a change, because I don't know how sensitive those devices are.



If anyone has access to a panel or something with a normal amount of clear on it and could do a test like this, that would be great!



I've removed all the dealer induced swirls on my MB and am now using the proper washing/drying techniques and tools to keep marring to a minimum. Hopefully, I won't have to abrade the clearcoat for a couple of years. I may begin to glaze if the paint gets swirls to keep from removing more clear. Basically, I don't want to remove any more clear until I absolutely have to.
 
Just to give you a little benchmark of how far you can go.....



When I first got into detailing I bought a PC, yellow pads and 3M SMR right off the bat. I never knew a polish was abrasive and would eat your clear coat nor did I know what a polish did in the first place. I read a few articles and heard that a polish will "clean" your paint before you seal.



From hearing that I thought I would get my paint real real clean so every week (for 90% of the year and once every other week the other 10% of the year was polishing every other week) I would get my PC, go outside with three yellows pads and polish the HECK out of my red Saturn all day (average of 8 a.m. until 5 p.m.). I wouldn't stop until the paint squeaked when ran my fingers across it (squeak like your wet hands across a clean dinner plate after it was washed). On the average I would apply about 6+ layers of polish every single week and press my weight onto the yellow pad, the paint was SO darn clean and felt SO smooth and believe it or not; I never had a problem with clear coat failure. Everyone I knew told me my car looked plain out wet, like there was a liquid on it. It looked better than any car I have seen on the road and I truly mean it........... and I never had a problem with clearcoat failure.



I polished my car that one year more than you will polish your Acura Integra in 10 years so I wouldn't worry one little bit. A rotary and a compound every weekend in multiple layers with a coarse pad, then I might worry but you can see what from I did, I had awesome results and never had any problems.



If anything, contiouns polishing is bringing fresh uncontaiminated clear coat to the surface which enhances your shine, not dull it.



I think your having the same problem as me. I have always had such a beautiful shine after a day of detailing yet the next week I have always been able to make it shine a little more which made me feel awesome. I never thought about it but I have made my car shine as much as it ever will and I don't have that "happy" feeling anymore. You and I are no longer creating a new and improved shine everytime we detail, we are just maintaining our clearcoat and getting results that are already expected. Why do you think you are trying so many different products, your looking for a new shine. It’s a different shine, not a better shine.



I have a red car, flat red. Last summer I got the clearcoat to shine so much that if you looked at it REAL close you could see the red paint which was covered in a smooth icing which was my clear coat. It was almost as if my paint was trapped under this smooth, shiny icing layer of clear coat. You could clearly distinguish both layers of paint............... If you can shine your car like that then it's not getting any better, start worrying about polishing plastic, rubber trim, rims, polishing your glass and shampooing your interior so you can keep that special "feeling" when you detail. The paint can only shine so much, just like your car only benefits from a specific number of Klasse layers. Everything after that is just “extra�.



Let me know what you think about what I have written.





GREAT article by the way! :up
 
A few years ago I had a white Buick (don't laugh... it got me around). I used to wax it every weekend by hand with a cleaner/wax. After about four years, I noticed along the ridges of the car, the paint was worn to the primer. It looked like i had thin pin stripes on the car.
 
Jon S said:
A few years ago I had a white Buick (don't laugh... it got me around). I used to wax it every weekend by hand with a cleaner/wax. After about four years, I noticed along the ridges of the car, the paint was worn to the primer. It looked like i had thin pin stripes on the car.
Click to expand...



Wow! What cleaner wax were you using? As i understand it, some cleaner waxes are heavy on solvents while some are loaded with abrasives. Not sure because i'm not a cleaner wax kinda guy.
 
You know, I asked about this so often when I first was getting into this, and from what I understood, the majority of the people said twice a year.



I always want to know "just how much clear coat am I removing", but I guess there are too many variables. Like how hard you press, what pad you use, how long you spend doing one panel, etc.



From what I understood, just using 3M SMR with a white pad barely removes anything, and I didn't have much to worry about.



This is a great thread. :up:



- Anthony
 
Very interesting thread. I wonder about that too. I don't like the idea of polishing my car because you can't put that paint you remove back on. It's like cutting something. Once you do it, it's done. I wonder how deep swirls tend to go. Do they tend to be substantially less than the depth of the paint? Whenever you see those simplified pictures (the ones that show you how crud is removed from your paint via clay or polish or whatever the product for sale is), the crud or swirls or whatever are usually in like the first third of the clearcoat. I really doubt those make any attempt at being to scale, but it always makes me wonder. I look forward to the responses to this!
 
This thread is a good idea Jngr, I imagine 99% of the people wonder about this or have thought about it on occasion. It's possible that the question is still to vague or nebulous to really answer, but I'm hoping for some insight from stories like the ones told by people so far.



Paint thickness, application method, products, worked for how long.... who knows? :nixweiss
 
Is there anyone out there who would like to see me do a test on that hood I have?



like:



wetsand - compound - polish



then repeat that procedure a number of times 'till pad turns green.



Could be an indication of what a clear can take.

(the hood comes from a Peugeot 306 build year 2000)



what the heck, might do the test anyway



Christiaan
 
cvcaelen, that would be a great test. Make sure to note the paint condition before the test.



I might just visit the local junkyard one of these days and find a hood piece too. Sounds fun.
 
Oh, if you people want more examples, I have wet sanded too! :eek: :eek:



I got the variety pack fo 3M wet sanding paper from my local auto store and went to town on my fathers van. I used medium pressure by wrapping a block of wood around the sand paper, every 5-8 strokes I would hose the area. I must of made 45+ passes on each little space of clear coat. I never went through. HOWEVER, on the side panels, if you use the most mild wet sand paper you can go through the clear in 5 heavy strokes. The edges are SO darn thin it's scary, I wouldn't ever wet sand around edges, it's a nightmare just waiting to happen. If you have a swirl or scratch your better off just using a weak polish.



stang922 - I used a Porter Cable buffer, 3M Swirl Mark Remover and yellow pads (they tend to be the stiffest and produce the best results in a minimal amount of time).
 
I polish my trruck when needed. Usually 2-3 times a year. The one spot I tend to go weak on is the tailgate. This has a good amount of swirls, but it looks "different" than the rest of the truck in certail light. Not as thick i guess. I rarely touch it for that reason.



How does a chemical polish work? if I just let it dwell on a body panel over night, will the clear be gone? I might halfto try it.... (on my tester panel of course)
 
I have asked this question before and never got a defenitive answer. I personaly don't think there is hard and fast rule on how many times you can safely polish a car before you will notice clear coat failure. I think there are to many variables such as polish used, pad used, done by hand or machine, machine speed, pressure exerted on machine, paint type, etc. I used my PC for the first time this weekend with #7 and a polishing pad. I noticed NO swirl removal so I am assuming that I did not remove any clear coat. I would like to know how safe it is to use SMR or #9 with a white (CMA) pad 2 - 3 times a year and my Golf? I have heard many different opinions most completely contridicting each other. Many people say that it is safe to use those products 4 or more times per year and many say that I should only do it 1- 2 times a year, if that. These people are not detailing neophytes either. Terry from CMA himself said it would be OK to use #9 with a white pad 2-4 times a year. Griots says the amount a clear removed with thier polish is so small that it can not be measured. The guys over at www.autosupermart.com insist that polishing should only be done 1 - 2 times a year and ONLY when the car absolutely needs it. I know people who polish almost every 2 months so I do not think I have too much to worry about but these are also higher end automobiles..... BMW's, lexus's, and the like. I am sure that the paint on these cars is much better then the paint on my little VW. Please someone with a little more knowledge enlighten us :)
 
BIGkev1001 - Notice the difference from what they say to what I have done. They predict the clear will fail after a specific number of polishes, I have reached that number and gone further so I know.
 
I've cut through the clear on mid-80's Benzes and a '91 Volvo. That was using mild polishes (can't remember what..it was years ago, but nothing stronger than FI-II) and a random orbital using a pad softer than a CMA yellow. BUT, these were (very) used cars that had (I think) previously been hit hard with a rotary.



Slightly ot (?), I've gone through the single stage paint on an '84 Volvo using Griot's Machine Polish #2 (IMO, a bit milder than FI-II) and Griot's (pretty soft) orange pad. Right down to the black primer. And my single-stage Jag won't stand much more paint removal in spots.



Lesson#1: If you don't know your car's history, get the paint thickness checked with a good, DIGITAL gauge.

Lesson#2: I myself can live with flaws on cars I want to keep original-paint. I've come to think of it as "patina" :rolleyes:
 
Chevrolet factory paint for the most part stinks anyhow so I am not so worried. I'll just get the car re-sprayed and enjoy new paint (my dream!!!) and I won't miss the orange peel either.
 
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