How far to take down clear?

Here are another couple of photos. I hit the fender a couple of times with the PC, orange pad, SFX1, SFX2 (green), RMG and this was the result I got - pretty random but evenly spaced deep pock marks... The door was not done and you can see how it's a bit worse - more of a general hazing... I'm thinking THIS problem isn't so much an environmental one as a poor paint quality issue... :(



fenderdoor.jpg
 
Here are another couple of photos. I hit the fender a couple of times with the PC, orange pad, SFX1, SFX2 (green), RMG and this was the result I got - pretty random but evenly spaced deep pock marks... The door was not done and you can see how it's a bit worse - more of a general hazing... I'm thinking THIS problem isn't so much an environmental one as a poor paint quality issue... :(



fenderdoor.jpg
 
If it's just fenders and doors , you might want to consider a good body shop to repsray only those panels . PPG and DuPont both offer an onlu color chart that shows EXACT formultions for color match acccording to your car/year and color code so that wouldnt be a problem .

I only say this because if you plan to keep the car awhile , those defects might lead to complete clear failure on those areas . Isn't teh finish warranteed as well ? At least 1 year after purchase I would think . Heck even Kia has a 3 year warrantee against paint defects and failure on their cheapest cars
 
If it's just fenders and doors , you might want to consider a good body shop to repsray only those panels . PPG and DuPont both offer an onlu color chart that shows EXACT formultions for color match acccording to your car/year and color code so that wouldnt be a problem .

I only say this because if you plan to keep the car awhile , those defects might lead to complete clear failure on those areas . Isn't teh finish warranteed as well ? At least 1 year after purchase I would think . Heck even Kia has a 3 year warrantee against paint defects and failure on their cheapest cars
 
Well, the problem exists on the entire car, but what made me think it's not an environmental issue is the fact that it exists on the vertical surfaces. I wouldn't know what to tell the dealer I wanted them to do if they DID cover it under warranty.



Like Accumulator said, a respray brings a whole other set of issues with it... but I wouldn't think that a basecoat respray would be necessary, just a sanding to smooth out the existing surface/clear and a respray of 1-2 layers of clear only. Of course i'd have to research and find a quality paint shop... My regular shop is good for regular repairs, but if I would pay out of pocket for this, I'd want it to be perfect and undetectable (no seams, no overspray, nothin!)
 
Well, the problem exists on the entire car, but what made me think it's not an environmental issue is the fact that it exists on the vertical surfaces. I wouldn't know what to tell the dealer I wanted them to do if they DID cover it under warranty.



Like Accumulator said, a respray brings a whole other set of issues with it... but I wouldn't think that a basecoat respray would be necessary, just a sanding to smooth out the existing surface/clear and a respray of 1-2 layers of clear only. Of course i'd have to research and find a quality paint shop... My regular shop is good for regular repairs, but if I would pay out of pocket for this, I'd want it to be perfect and undetectable (no seams, no overspray, nothin!)
 
It's almost next to impossible to find a shop that REALLY will guarantee that the clear coat will not fail if it is sprayed seperately .

Basecoat has a given flash time , and then they spray the clear which adheres to the base because it is still chemically bondable . It hasn't reached it's full film when they clear .



One thing that would be possible , but unless the shop is VERY familar with the exact formula of paint that the car is sprayed with I doubt they would touch it .

It would be a complete flattening of the clear , paying special attention to when the nibs and pits are gone and the base is BARELY touched . Then sanding with 400 grit on edges and such which are prone to lifting , and a scuffing gel used where defects arent present . They would then spray what is called a flow coat 1st ( overreduced - will take LONG to flash but holds better ) , then the UV clear layer , then another flow coat lastly .

BUT



It would actually be easier to simply sand the whole car down and respray base/clear in the original color with 3m soft edge tape in all of the crevices for a good blend on no overspray .



I could do it , but I no longer work at a shop , I just know all about it to this day ..



I really do think it should be covered under warranty though . Looks like solvent pop , where they sprayed the clear too soon and the base gassed out - bursting the clear .

Could be likened to air bubbles rising to the surface if you want a clearer picture

Finish couldve also gotten wrong reducer for temp and / or been force dried
 
It's almost next to impossible to find a shop that REALLY will guarantee that the clear coat will not fail if it is sprayed seperately .

Basecoat has a given flash time , and then they spray the clear which adheres to the base because it is still chemically bondable . It hasn't reached it's full film when they clear .



One thing that would be possible , but unless the shop is VERY familar with the exact formula of paint that the car is sprayed with I doubt they would touch it .

It would be a complete flattening of the clear , paying special attention to when the nibs and pits are gone and the base is BARELY touched . Then sanding with 400 grit on edges and such which are prone to lifting , and a scuffing gel used where defects arent present . They would then spray what is called a flow coat 1st ( overreduced - will take LONG to flash but holds better ) , then the UV clear layer , then another flow coat lastly .

BUT



It would actually be easier to simply sand the whole car down and respray base/clear in the original color with 3m soft edge tape in all of the crevices for a good blend on no overspray .



I could do it , but I no longer work at a shop , I just know all about it to this day ..



I really do think it should be covered under warranty though . Looks like solvent pop , where they sprayed the clear too soon and the base gassed out - bursting the clear .

Could be likened to air bubbles rising to the surface if you want a clearer picture

Finish couldve also gotten wrong reducer for temp and / or been force dried
 
thanks for the detailed explanation, jay. that really does help. I'm hoping to get my hands on a macro lens soon to get better photos of the problem. None of my lenses focus close enough.



If I COULD find an expert that Subaru of America would respect the word of and whose work I could be assured of, I'd have it done in a heartbeat. I plan on holding onto the car for some time (it's a Subaru, after all!) and if I can be happy with the paint, I'd be... um... happy :)



It did seem a little deep to be just acid rain or some environmental damage and especially odd that it would occur on side panels as well as top panels.



Any suggestion on where to go to find someone I could be assured that they understand what I'm seeing, appreciate my issues and generally be considered a master painter?



Thanks again.
 
thanks for the detailed explanation, jay. that really does help. I'm hoping to get my hands on a macro lens soon to get better photos of the problem. None of my lenses focus close enough.



If I COULD find an expert that Subaru of America would respect the word of and whose work I could be assured of, I'd have it done in a heartbeat. I plan on holding onto the car for some time (it's a Subaru, after all!) and if I can be happy with the paint, I'd be... um... happy :)



It did seem a little deep to be just acid rain or some environmental damage and especially odd that it would occur on side panels as well as top panels.



Any suggestion on where to go to find someone I could be assured that they understand what I'm seeing, appreciate my issues and generally be considered a master painter?



Thanks again.
 
find out what brand and what system of paint the car is sprayed with in that color bc/cc and find a local shop that is certified to use that paint system / brand .

Take it in and ask them for a diagnosis if possible .

It could something as simple as the sprayer was globbing up too and spurting out .

In that case the clear should be level and would be much safer to wetsand and only those marks would be excess that need knocking down .

Many different possibilities and they all would look the same with online photos . The animes2k macro vision view of it would definately help though
 
find out what brand and what system of paint the car is sprayed with in that color bc/cc and find a local shop that is certified to use that paint system / brand .

Take it in and ask them for a diagnosis if possible .

It could something as simple as the sprayer was globbing up too and spurting out .

In that case the clear should be level and would be much safer to wetsand and only those marks would be excess that need knocking down .

Many different possibilities and they all would look the same with online photos . The animes2k macro vision view of it would definately help though
 
subaru paint guide said:
"Note: This is the most accurate information at the time of printing.

The various paint manufacturers designate their own stock numbers and their formulas are

updated on a continual basis. Some vendors may have different color names than the ones

provided by SOA. Double check vendor numbers for accurate color match. If there are any

problems with the listed vendor numbers, please have body shop personnel contact the

specific paint vendor for updated information.

The paint codes are found on the VIN Plate located on the Left Strut Tower. The color code is

depicted by a solid color or by a combined upper and lower color."



2004 IMPREZA COLOR CODES



WR Blue Pearl

FHI code - 02C

Subaru code - BLU



vendor - code

Martin Senour/Shewin-Williams - 63490

PPG - 194512

DuPont - M9394

BASF-R/M Glasurit - 02C

AKZO Nobel - SUB9105

STANDOX - 02C

Autocolor NEXA - XLA5B

Spies-Hecker - 24492
Click to expand...



Since my VIN plate reads "02C" and STANDOX doesn't appear to supply OEM coatings, I'm going to have to assume that BASF supplies the Subaru paint system, at least for this color. There is a BASF automotive refinishing training center about 30 minutes from me (Jessup, MD) and I can find certified body shops via www.basfrefinish.com. If my assumption is wrong (entirely possible) at least maybe SOA or BASF can tell me that.



I think my best bet would be to head to the training center, if they'll see me, since you'd think that they were THE experts with BASF paint systems. :) Otherwise, I can at least get a recommendation from them as to who is the best, most qualified shop in the area.



If nothing else, it's an interesting research project.
 
subaru paint guide said:
"Note: This is the most accurate information at the time of printing.

The various paint manufacturers designate their own stock numbers and their formulas are

updated on a continual basis. Some vendors may have different color names than the ones

provided by SOA. Double check vendor numbers for accurate color match. If there are any

problems with the listed vendor numbers, please have body shop personnel contact the

specific paint vendor for updated information.

The paint codes are found on the VIN Plate located on the Left Strut Tower. The color code is

depicted by a solid color or by a combined upper and lower color."



2004 IMPREZA COLOR CODES



WR Blue Pearl

FHI code - 02C

Subaru code - BLU



vendor - code

Martin Senour/Shewin-Williams - 63490

PPG - 194512

DuPont - M9394

BASF-R/M Glasurit - 02C

AKZO Nobel - SUB9105

STANDOX - 02C

Autocolor NEXA - XLA5B

Spies-Hecker - 24492
Click to expand...



Since my VIN plate reads "02C" and STANDOX doesn't appear to supply OEM coatings, I'm going to have to assume that BASF supplies the Subaru paint system, at least for this color. There is a BASF automotive refinishing training center about 30 minutes from me (Jessup, MD) and I can find certified body shops via www.basfrefinish.com. If my assumption is wrong (entirely possible) at least maybe SOA or BASF can tell me that.



I think my best bet would be to head to the training center, if they'll see me, since you'd think that they were THE experts with BASF paint systems. :) Otherwise, I can at least get a recommendation from them as to who is the best, most qualified shop in the area.



If nothing else, it's an interesting research project.
 
It will work out so at least you have an actual diagnosis . I would try and contact the manufacturer direct after diagnosis and get it warranteed for repsray - preferably by the BASF place youre going to or a good basf refinish shop if possible and not a dealer body shop .
 
It will work out so at least you have an actual diagnosis . I would try and contact the manufacturer direct after diagnosis and get it warranteed for repsray - preferably by the BASF place youre going to or a good basf refinish shop if possible and not a dealer body shop .
 
exactly. getting it taken care of ASAP is key, lest Subaru claim some kind of "oh, they're wrong, it's because of such-and-such that you did".



There are only two shops listed on the basf body shop finder in all of MD and VA that have their two top certification accolades (assuming this means they meet super-high standards of quality). One's north of Baltimore, the other is in Va Beach... Neither is nearby...



If they did the work at the training facility, that'd rock :)



I'll make some calls tomorrow and keep you up to date. Thanks again.
 
exactly. getting it taken care of ASAP is key, lest Subaru claim some kind of "oh, they're wrong, it's because of such-and-such that you did".



There are only two shops listed on the basf body shop finder in all of MD and VA that have their two top certification accolades (assuming this means they meet super-high standards of quality). One's north of Baltimore, the other is in Va Beach... Neither is nearby...



If they did the work at the training facility, that'd rock :)



I'll make some calls tomorrow and keep you up to date. Thanks again.
 
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