How do we non pros really know?

S

ShenValley

New member
How does someone, not a pro, know what is really a good/great product vs just being junk? My days of using garbage such as Armor All is long gone but I have no idea if what I am using is really as good as claimed. Many good reviews should mean something but we all know that Amazon is full of fake reviews and even Amazon acknowledges this. I went to Topcoat F11 a few years ago and I do feel it`s been a good product. No more getting wax out of every crack and crevice on my truck. I also have some Griots, Mother`s and Chemical Guys in my garage but is it truly a good product(s)? My truck has a Ceramic coating on it I got at the dealer a few weeks ago (new truck) and I did research this and again, great reviews.
 
My take on this may get scoffed at by some. But here it is. So many cars on the roads today are just `driven`. Throw gas in it, get oil changed, and if it gets taken through a car wash, well isn`t that a "detail"?? lol. Maybe being a bit sarcastic at that, but so many people just "drive" their vehicles. If a person actually takes the time and effort to put into their ride(s), well that`s a big win right there. Just washing and applying a topping of some sort is more than probably a large % of vehicles are getting today.

And as far as products, well the detailing world is CRAZY HUGE today, so so much to choose from. Are there better products than others? Of coarse. But sometimes price also comes into play in that. My take is `most` any product is better than none. And everyone has favs they like for their own reasons.
Myself, I was always a Meguiar`s guy, so still have love for them. Now I have branched out over the last 2 years, but still use M27 as my base and top it with M799 and the Megs Hybrid Ceramic line. Now many MANY others on here have moved past those, and are onto other products. Gyeon Cancoat gets lots of praise for a product if your not ready for a full on coating. Others on here will post brands and products they like and use, I believe none are wrong. For me I like to upkeep my vehicles, so topping up with a wax/sealant is part of my hobby, I like being out doing it.
Not to touch on the care people give their cars again, but alot of cars are getting cleaned when it rains.... so any product is better than that. :)
 
Find products you like and use them. It can be fun to figure out what you like with the amount of products out there due to the internet.
 
Silly Rabbit said:
My take on this may get scoffed at by some. But here it is. So many cars on the roads today are just `driven`. Throw gas in it, get oil changed, and if it gets taken through a car wash, well isn`t that a "detail"?? lol. Maybe being a bit sarcastic at that, but so many people just "drive" their vehicles. If a person actually takes the time and effort to put into their ride(s), well that`s a big win right there. Just washing and applying a topping of some sort is more than probably a large % of vehicles are getting today.

And as far as products, well the detailing world is CRAZY HUGE today, so so much to choose from. Are there better products than others? Of coarse. But sometimes price also comes into play in that. My take is `most` any product is better than none. And everyone has favs they like for their own reasons.
Myself, I was always a Meguiar`s guy, so still have love for them. Now I have branched out over the last 2 years, but still use M27 as my base and top it with M799 and the Megs Hybrid Ceramic line. Now many MANY others on here have moved past those, and are onto other products. Gyeon Cancoat gets lots of praise for a product if your not ready for a full on coating. Others on here will post brands and products they like and use, I believe none are wrong. For me I like to upkeep my vehicles, so topping up with a wax/sealant is part of my hobby, I like being out doing it.
Not to touch on the care people give their cars again, but alot of cars are getting cleaned when it rains.... so any product is better than that. :)
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And that is what I want to hear. That what I am buying and using is what my car needs. May not be the number 1 product out there but does a good job. The products i`ve bought certainly do not seem cheap. I feel I am on the right track but if there is a miracle product out here I`d be willing to try it.
 
A few keys for me to finding good products.

1. Define my expectations. Does this need to shine like the sun or does it need to last years, etc

2. Read the reviews. Look for quality reviews that compare the product to others in the same segment and list pros and cons for each. Skip the reviews of the guy that was used to using some old hard to use product (like paste wax) and then discovers the “miracle” of the latest ad supported product, like F11. Even worse are the reviews that just say how awesome the product is with nothing to compare to.

3. Avoid the hype train. If it just came out in the last year, there won’t be many worthy reviews and there are lots of people that are helping hype the flavor of the day.
 
Dan said:
A few keys for me to finding good products.

1. Define my expectations. Does this need to shine like the sun or does it need to last years, etc

2. Read the reviews. Look for quality reviews that compare the product to others in the same segment and list pros and cons for each. Skip the reviews of the guy that was used to using some old hard to use product (like paste wax) and then discovers the “miracle” of the latest ad supported product, like F11. Even worse are the reviews that just say how awesome the product is with nothing to compare to.

3. Avoid the hype train. If it just came out in the last year, there won’t be many worthy reviews and there are lots of people that are helping hype the flavor of the day.
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Dan,

Never thought of it that way where I did the bold. I guess in my case I would like both. Assuming this is possible. But I do want this truck to last for many years. Where in NOVA? Lived in NOVA for 42 years before moving to the valley.
 
If a product delivers for you, then I`d say it`s a good product...*for YOU*. IF it doesn`t, then IMO it`s simply NOT, no matter how well it apparently (or, heh heh..supposedly ;) ) works for somebody else. I`d resist the temptation to try fixing what isn`t broken, but I also believe there`s no reason to really struggle for good results as there are a scad of easy-to-use products, in every category. that work great without being a big PIA. Heh heh, guess "big PIA" is subjective though...
 
A further thought regarding product recommendations: if a member here suggests a product/procedure and you try it, *PLEASE* post about how it works out if you get the chance.

I always want to know how my recommendations pan out for people, if only so I can qualify future recommendations with any "but OTOH..." caveats. IF something doesn`t work out for you, that doesn`t mean it won`t work for somebody else, nor that the advice was bad. But it *is* worth knowing, and if nothing else it could lead to productive discussions.
 
ShenValley said:
Dan,

Never thought of it that way where I did the bold. I guess in my case I would like both. Assuming this is possible. But I do want this truck to last for many years. Where in NOVA? Lived in NOVA for 42 years before moving to the valley.
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I`m around the Leesburg area.

As to that magic product, nothing yet. A weekend spent polishing and a good coating is probably going to be your best shine and durability. Just don`t fall for the coatings that push maintenance products. I can sell you a magic coating that I can apply remotely overnight while you sleep... just use a maintenance product and it will last years!!!! Lol.
 
My Captain Obvious opinion, which means squat because I am not a professional detailer:
This Autopia Forum and its member reviews and opinions and experiences is a great asset to finding those REALLY GOOD detaiing products.
There is caviat to this however on several fronts:
1) Price point. Polish Angel products are great products, but they come at a high price point. Sviss Wax falls into that category as well.
Some might even say CarPro products are expensive. So what you, as a hobbyist detailer with a limited means to spend on detailing products, are looking for a value-priced products; IE, products that deliver stellar results for a specific detailing task for a reasonable price. THAT is kind of "The Holy Grail" for finding those value-priced products.
2) There are a plethora of detailing product manufacturers/suppliers/distributors out there, it is difficult to choose which products to buy and use. Many manufacturers do offer a wide variety of products that cover a wide variety of detailing tasks.
As mentioned above, Meguiar`s and its owner 3M, is one of those respected car-care product manufacturers and has a wide market share of those products used by professionals and hobbyists alike. I can honestly say that I use their products, especially the Professional Detailing Line that I buy in bulk gallons (That has changed with their offering of Ready-To-Use line-up or RTU 32-ounce bottles available at most auto parts stores.) and their Mirror Glaze Professional Line. Great products at a great price that work for me.
For some time now, I have been using Optimum Polymer Technologies products because of the reviews within this forum about them. Another example of great products with excellent results at a good price.
3) Most detailers, both professional and hobbyist, have a wide variety of detailing products from different manufacturers. The reason is that some manufacturers are a made for a specific detailing task. Solution Finishes are a prime example of this for plastic trim restoration and protection. Scholl`s Concepts are highly-respected for their great compound and polishing abrasives.
4) There are some car-care product manufacturer`s who cater specifically to large-volume detailers, like car dealerships and use-car lots. Automotive International and its ValuGard line are an example of this. So is Hi-Temp/Akrya and Car Lane, companies you may not have heard about.
Some might even throw Meguiars , P&S/Renny Doyle Double Black, Adam`s Polishes , McKee`s 37, Chemical Guy`s into that category.
5) There are lower-tier mass-marketed detailing products out there. Turtle Wax, Mother`s , Meg`s Consumer Line, fall into that category. I use Turtle Wax`s Hybrid Line, and quite honestly, it is very good for what you pay. It`s very reasonably-priced and delivers good (not ultra great, though) results.
6) As highly-respected auto detailing guru/expert Mike Phillips has stated: "Find something you like and use it often". That`s a truism to each of you detailing pros and hobbyists that transcends the subjective nature of which products are the best.
As stated at the beginning of this post, I am just glad you Autopians are willing to share those experiences and opinions on this forum. It`s a big help to me,personally, to my detailing hobby.

Edit: That is probably THE most-commonly asked question within this forum:
"Which product is the best for (you pick the specific detailing task you want do)?"
If you are wondering what those "detailing tasks" are, see my post on suggetions for the best microfiber cloths to use for those detailing tasks (Yes, it is a long list):
https://www.autopia.org/forums/car-...ask-list-autopian-suggestions.html?highlight=
 
ShenValley said:
How does someone, not a pro
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Lonnie said:
My Captain Obvious opinion, which means squat because I am not a professional detailer
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I`m going to go off on a rant about this--because I have stopped participating in another forum because a "professional" member there dismisses the opinions/advice of anyone who is not a "professional", including people like Rasky, who he considers to not be a "professional" because detailing is not Rasky`s full-time job. I`m not sure how much of this viewpoint is stupidity, ego, or marketing, but I don`t agree with it.

I don`t really see how a "pro" detailer is more qualified to answer the OP`s question, because 1) Do we really have a knowledge standard to be a "professional detailer"? Yes there is the IDA; interestingly, the above mentioned snotty "professional" is not IDA-certifed, and 2) for the OP`s question, isn`t a car owner, who knows what he put on, knows how it`s been maintained, and sees the car every day, going to have a better handle on a "good" product, than a "professional" who puts a product on a car that he may never see again? Or may see again in a year or two and not know what`s been done to it in that year or two? He could see it and say "boy, that product I put on 2 years ago held up great!" when in reality the car could have been detailed by someone else in the meantime.

This also brings me back to a Todd Helme answer to a young dealer detailer, who came on here (I dunno, here, TID, AGO, somewhere) some years ago who said he was working under the senior detailer who had been there for 15 years, but everything he was being taught was at odds with the forum info, and he didn`t understand how such an experienced detailer could be apparently so uninformed. Todd politely explained that if you learn how to do the job wrong in the first two weeks of doing it, and don`t learn anything after that, you don`t have 15 years of experience, you have 2 weeks of experience that you have been repeating for 15 years. (I`m paraphrasing, I`d never be able to find that thread)
 
noorth said:
You`re on a good forum to find out most of them questions lol
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Bingo. You have a combination of highly experienced hobbyists and some very level-headed pro`s as well. Participating in the discussions will help you find those who have similar philosophies, techniques, and even climate conditions. See what they are using and experienced, though never totally dismiss contrary information.

There is probably a "core" of products/brands most people here use which would be a safe option. However, don`t be afraid to go out on a limb once in a while and try out something you`ve never seen/heard about before. Just buy small bottles and not gallon jugs....


Setec Astronomy said:
I`m going to go off on a rant about this....
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Well said. How many times have we see pictures of a vehicle which was worked on by a pro and it`s covered with holograms from a rotary polisher or other damage because the individual just wasn`t very good at their craft. Meanwhile there are weekend warriors or hobbyists who are quite skilled.
 
Based on all the response. Which I certainly appreciate. I think I may be on the correct path---for the most part. Still trying to figure out if I can put too much product on a vehicle or back down to just once in a while or keep applying as I see fit. All so confusing. I think I may be using the microfibers too often and maybe need other options. That is a little confusing though. I have a large number of these which have come from I believe to be reputable companies and I constantly wash them with a MF wash product but maybe after so many washings it`s time to relegate them to other jobs in the home. It seems I am doing more good than harm (I hope) based on all these opinions and for that I am happy.
 
ShenValley said:
Still trying to figure out if I can put too much product on a vehicle or back down to just once in a while or keep applying as I see fit.
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A lot of this comes down to experience in your local area with a product and your expectations.

For something that isn`t a high-solids coating I might use a certain amount and get results I`m happy with. You might live in a climate that is more harsh which leads to failure earlier and requires more frequent application. I might be happy with beading dropping off a bit before application, while you might only tolerate that "fresh applied" look/performance.
 
There are no industry standard tests in this industry. When you buy a quart of motor oil, it was subjected to a variety of engine testing to make sure it meets the required specifications - Sequence IVA wear test etc. So you`re kind of on your own with detailing products, but as others have said, you can get an idea once you spend enough time talking to people, reading comments/reivews on forums and also using them.

There was a member on AG "PipUK" who was based out of the UK somewhere who was a chemist and formulator. Loved that guys posts. He would cut through the bs like a hot knife through butter.
 
CleanIt said:
There are no industry standard tests in this industry. When you buy a quart of motor oil, it was subjected to a variety of engine testing to make sure it meets the required specifications - Sequence IVA wear test etc. So you`re kind of on your own with detailing products, but as others have said, you can get an idea once you spend enough time talking to people, reading comments/reivews on forums and also using them.

There was a member on AG "PipUK" who was based out of the UK somewhere who was a chemist and formulator. Loved that guys posts. He would cut through the bs like a hot knife through butter.
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I worked for a long time with chemists in my explosives career. The things I learned from them made me realize some people just have too big of brains. They were damn smart.
 
ShenValley said:
I worked for a long time with chemists in my explosives career. The things I learned from them made me realize some people just have too big of brains. They were damn smart.
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As Albert Einstein said, "The difference between stupidity and genius is that there is a limit to genius."
Or as the axiom in engineering goes when trying to apply machine operational safety devices or programming, "Just when you think you`ve made something idiot-proof, they make better idiots."

ShenValley:
Working in the explosives industry, you are the only one who can truly say they can prove and understand the Big Bang Theory. (Could not resist the "unintelligent" Captain Obvious humor)
 
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