Hologram questions and....help

M

McDougal

New member
I recently purchased a black car that has tons of shallow looking scratches throughout the car. It looks fine from a few feet away but when you get up really close you can see the scratches. I really want to take care of this car and the paint on the car.



I purchased used some Megs Scratch-X with a yellow megs Solo foam pad. It took the scratches out and worked really well. However, today I took the car out in the sun and I realized there are holograms all over the panels that I have used the Scratch-X on. I rubbed some Mothers quick detailer (the stuff that comes in their clay bar kit) on the panels and the holograms appear to have disappeared.



Do you think the detailer fixed the problem, or is it only covering the holograms? If it is only covering the holograms, what is a good solution for fixing the problem? What typically causes holograms? After reading a little of the Rotory 101 thread it appears as though I was using too much pressure, too much speed, and too much angle on the buffer.



Any help would be appreciated.



Thanks
 
Without seeing and pics and just guessing, I'd say, maybe, you had some leftover polish residue on the car, and the QD removed it.
 
efnfast said:
Without seeing and pics and just guessing, I'd say, maybe, you had some leftover polish residue on the car, and the QD removed it.
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I hope that is the case, but we will see. I am just waiting for them to reappear.



Speaking of pics, I am having a hard time taking pics that show blemishes in the paint (ie - the surface just looks flat and smooth when i take a picture).
 
McDougal said:
..I purchased used some Megs Scratch-X with a yellow megs Solo foam pad. It took the scratches out and worked really well. However, today I took the car out in the sun and I realized there are holograms all over the panels that I have used the Scratch-X on. I rubbed some Mothers quick detailer (the stuff that comes in their clay bar kit) on the panels and the holograms appear to have disappeared.



Do you think the detailer fixed the problem, or is it only covering the holograms?
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If it was just polish residue then the QD probably cleaned it off.



If there really were holograms in the paint then the QD would *not* solve the problem because the holograms need to be abrasively polished out (like sanding a piece of wood to remove a scratch).



If it is only covering the holograms, what is a good solution for fixing the problem?
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Abrasive polishing with a suitable product. Something like the Scratch-X, though it's hard to say whether that's aggressive enough for the job.



What typically causes holograms? After reading a little of the Rotory 101 thread it appears as though I was using too much pressure, too much speed, and too much angle on the buffer.
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Holograms are *VERY* hard to avoid when using a rotary buffer. Even when you get the pressure and speed right and keep the pad flat you can still get them.



Scratch-X is probably not the best product to finish with via rotary. If you want to use a Meguiar's product I'd try M205, but IMO you'd have better luck finishing with 3M Ultrafina or Menzerna FPII.



FWIW, I don't finish out via rotary *because* of the hologram issue. But then I've never tried Ultrafina or the FPII either.



Oh, and welcome to Autopia!
 
Accumulator,



Thanks for the responses.



If the QD is in fact just covering the holograms (I hope it isn't and that it was just excess residue) should I use a water/alcohol solution to remove the QD to see if the holograms are still there?



I am using a Chicago rotory with a yellow Megs Solo foam pad. What speed should the rotory be set at when buffing with a scratch remover (I might pick up some of the 3M product)? I had it set on 2 before, which I think it about 1,400 RPM.



What speed should the rotory be set at when I move on to the polish? Going to use Duragloss 105.



Can hologramming occur at all stages (scratch removal and polish) because of the buffer, or does it only typically occur during the scratch removal stage?











Thanks for the welcome! I have a lot to learn.
 
i was just going to suggest following up with a polish and a lighter pad.



What kind of car is this because certain cars have soft clear/paint and tend to swirl/marr/halogram rather easy and would def. need to be followed up with either a white/black or blue pad with a lighter polish like Menz 106 or P085rd after being tackled with a yellow pad.
 
you probably didnt work the polish long enough. If the polish is still cutting and you stop mid way through before it is allowed to be worked all of the way through and level out to a finer polish, holograms can be left behind.



Next time, try applying at like 600rpms for 2 passes, up to 1000rps for 2-3 passes to get it to start working, up to 1600-1800 for 4 passes to really work it and then back down to 1000rpms for 2 passes and 600 to jewel it for the last 2 passes. Yes it is lengthy, but it will stop causing holograms and ensure the polish has worked all of the way through.



This is assuming that the pad/polish combination is not the culprit.
 
McDougal said:
..If the QD is in fact just covering the holograms (I hope it isn't and that it was just excess residue) should I use a water/alcohol solution to remove the QD to see if the holograms are still there?
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Yes, and inspect in natural sunlight.

I am using a Chicago rotory...
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I'm afraid I'm not the right guy to ask, but use the 3M Ultrafina as it says on the bottle.



Many people like to run the rotary from a low speed, up to a slightly higher one, and then back to the lower speed when doing final polishing.



I can't really help as I finish out via my DAs.

What speed should the rotory be set at when I move on to the polish? Going to use Duragloss 105.
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I'd *guess* you oughta use a low speed but this is another one where I just don't know :nixweiss



Can hologramming occur at all stages (scratch removal and polish) because of the buffer, or does it only typically occur during the scratch removal stage?
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Holograms can occur *any* time you're using a rotary. (I feel like I oughta say "any time you're using a functionally abrasive pad/product combo" but that's really splitting hairs.) The more aggressive the pad/product the more likely/severe they'll be.



 
vtec92civic said:
i was just going to suggest following up with a polish and a lighter pad.



What kind of car is this because certain cars have soft clear/paint and tend to swirl/marr/halogram rather easy and would def. need to be followed up with either a white/black or blue pad with a lighter polish like Menz 106 or P085rd after being tackled with a yellow pad.
Click to expand...



It is a 2006 Mitsubishi Evolution in Tarmac Black.



I haven't actually applied a polish yet. I am still at the swirl removal stage. I was planning to use the yellow pad all the way through, but maybe a black pad is in order for the polish?
 
slp123 said:
you probably didnt work the polish long enough. If the polish is still cutting and you stop mid way through before it is allowed to be worked all of the way through and level out to a finer polish, holograms can be left behind.



Next time, try applying at like 600rpms for 2 passes, up to 1000rps for 2-3 passes to get it to start working, up to 1600-1800 for 4 passes to really work it and then back down to 1000rpms for 2 passes and 600 to jewel it for the last 2 passes. Yes it is lengthy, but it will stop causing holograms and ensure the polish has worked all of the way through.



This is assuming that the pad/polish combination is not the culprit.
Click to expand...



Thanks for the tips on speed.



With regard to working to swirl remover for a longer period of time. I guess I have been a bit hesitant to do too much and have been erroring on the side of caution. Don't want to go through the clear coat.



Another thing. Will polish take out the holograms caused by the swirl remover, or do I need to make sure there are no holograms after each step.
 
it is possible that when using an abrasive polish and a heavy cut pad, this will create holograms that will be virtually impossible to remove them without stepping down to a finer polish and lighter cut/polishing pad to bring the gloss and depth back to the paint and to remove marring and holograms from the previous polish.



Watch your speed (both the speed of the pad and the speed of you moving the buffer) and the amount of pressure being applied. For a rotory, very little to no pressure is needed, just the pressure of the machine will work in most situations.



Good luck
 
slp123 said:
it is possible that when using an abrasive polish and a heavy cut pad, this will create holograms that will be virtually impossible to remove them without stepping down to a finer polish and lighter cut/polishing pad to bring the gloss and depth back to the paint and to remove marring and holograms from the previous polish.



Watch your speed (both the speed of the pad and the speed of you moving the buffer) and the amount of pressure being applied. For a rotory, very little to no pressure is needed, just the pressure of the machine will work in most situations.



Good luck
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Thanks for the tip.



I think I am going to go back over at least one panel with the yellow pad and polish using less speed and pressure to see what happens. Hopefully that will fix the problems. If not I will pick up a lighter cut pad.
 
McDougal said:
..With regard to working to swirl remover for a longer period of time. I guess I have been a bit hesitant to do too much and have been erroring on the side of caution. Don't want to go through the clear coat...
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With the vast majority of products, you have to work them a sufficiently long time in order to break the abrasives down (there are a *few* that simply don't break down but I don't think that's what you're using).



Failing to break down the abrasives will make all these issues much worse. Working the product long enough shouldn't imperil your clearcoat if you're using the right stuff to begin with.



And note that it's not a matter of *going through* the clear as you'll cause gotta-repaint-level damage long before that; you can only take off so much clear before you remove the UV protection and precipitate failure.



Another thing. Will polish take out the holograms caused by the swirl remover, or do I need to make sure there are no holograms after each step.
Click to expand...



You'll probably have holograms until the final step (or the penultimate one if you're planning to jewel/burnish the finish).



BUT...the terms "polish" and "swirl remover" are SOOOOO vague that it's hard to say what any differences between the products in question will really be. Companies use these words however they want and it gets confusing.
 
I am using Megs Swirl-X as a swirl remover and will be using DG 105 as a polish. Any tips on applying the DG 105? I will be using their bonding agent as well.



Today I picked up a 5 inch backing plate for use on my Chicago Electric rotory with yellow megs Solo 1 foam pad. I was using the standard backing plate before which barely fit with the yellow pad. Needless to say it is WAY easier to work the buffer with the smaller backing plate because the smaller plate allows the pad to bend along the edges to contour to the curves of the car (that was a long sentence).



I am been using a version of the KBM method in conjunction with less pad speed and moving the buffer across the paint slower. It seems to be working pretty well. If there is a hologram they seem to be removed by a few passes with low pad speed.



I feel like I am making progress but I won't know for sure until I can get the car in direct sunlight. I am using an LED right now to check for holograms and they are MUCH less noticeable than they were, but there are still a few here and there.



With regard to the swirl remover, there are still some small scratches that can be seen upon close inspection with the LED. It is MUCH MUCH better than it was but there are still small scratches. I figure I don't want to chance it by going too far so I will probably just leave it where it is at.



I hope that after I get done with the entire process (swirl remover, polish, and wax) the car will look ok.
 
Well I finally had a chance to get the car into direct sunlight today. There are holograms all over the side of the car and even on the hood, which I waxed to protect it until my polish comes in this weekend. They aren't everywhere by any means, but are pretty prminent in the "hard to reach" areas, near corners, and along/around curves. These are the areas where the pad isn't flat. The flat areas where I can move the pad along the panel seem to look pretty good. I don't understand how it is possible to get to curved areas without creating holograms.



Pretty frustrated and getting nervous that I am not going to be able to get the holograms out. Is it normal to have any holograms after using a swirl remover?



Is there any chance the holograms will be removed during the polishing process? Maybe I should use a softer pad during polishing? Using a yellow megs solo foam pad now.
 
I think it wasn't broken down properly. Also, PO85RD with a blue pad make a good finishing combo. Just make sure you break it down enough.
 
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