Help w/ CR Spotless - only got 2 washes out of it??

Nopstnz8 said:
Can anyone recommend a flow restrictor that I could order?
Click to expand...

Check out RV places. They sell a pressure-limiter for connecting to RVs and it just happens to be the right specs for a CRS.

allenk4 said:
For best results, buy an electric power washer

It does not have to be expensive

Many have outputs as low as 1.2 GPM, but rinse much more effectively than a hose end sprayer at the same GPM..
Click to expand...

Right! The CRS/pressure washer combo has good, uhm...synergy going for it.

.. I don't think running too many GPM thru the unit "Kills" the resin. My understanding is that the water just has to spend a minimum amount of time in contact with the resin, so it can bind with the solids in the water. If the GPM is too high, contaminated water just flows past the resin.
Click to expand...

We have two things to deal with (one at the "in" side and one at the "out") when setting up a CRS: limiting the input pressure and limiting the output volume.

I tried using mine without the restrictor (and I have boosted water pressure) and with a full(er)-flow nozzle. While it did work OK (zero TDS) in bothof those cases, the unrestricted pressure made the seals leak. I didn't use it with the full-flow nozzle long enough to see how fast it would kill the resin though, and I bet it would've quit deionizing at that rate a little while, just as you suspected.
 
allenk4 said:
For best results, buy an electric power washer

It does not have to be expensive

Many have outputs as low as 1.2 GPM, but rinse much more effectively than a hose end sprayer at the same GPM


I don't think running too many GPM thru the unit "Kills" the resin. My understanding is that the water just has to spend a minimum amount of time in contact with the resin, so it can bind with the solids in the water. If the GPM is too high, contaminated water just flows past the resin.
Click to expand...

I have a electric pressure washer that I use which flows under 2 gpm (1 believe 1.4 or 1.6 iirc). Are you saying that if I just use that, it's essentially functioning as the restrictor? I'd like to be able to use my hose nozzle with a restrictor attached so I can use lower pressure without letting the water get everywhere when rinsing in sections.
 
Nopstnz8 said:
I have a electric pressure washer that I use which flows under 2 gpm (1 believe 1.4 or 1.6 iirc). Are you saying that if I just use that, it's essentially functioning as the restrictor? I'd like to be able to use my hose nozzle with a restrictor attached so I can use lower pressure without letting the water get everywhere when rinsing in sections.
Click to expand...

Yes

If 1.2 gallons per minute is coming out of the pressure washer nozzle, only 1.2 GPM can flow through the CR
 
efnfast,

We have miserably hard water out here in the desert (and two black cars). Your thread reminded me of my first experience with my CR Spotless. I got the 300 gallon model (DIW 20) with the twin 20 inch cylinders and it would only last about three washes. I called Chuck and we had the same discussion that you did. Unfortunately the gallon "ratings" are based on pretty average water (<200 ppm). My tap water is ~1,600 ppm so 300 gallons of DI water just isn't going to happen. You can fiddle around with pressure regulators all you want but it won't change the fact that the DI cartridges have a finite capacity to absorb minerals. The poorer the water you put into them, the faster they will expend themselves.

After doing some research, I purchased a 5 stage RO system from Air Water and Ice (google it) with two RO membranes and three prefilters. The unit arrived pre assembled and required minimal installation. I use this to reduce the mineral content of the water before going into the CR Spotless. Since the output of the RO is only 1 gph the CR doesn't get overloaded. Now the water coming in from the tap is 1,600 ppm, the water after the RO membranes is ~60 ppm and the water coming out of the CR is 000 ppm. If you want DI water then pretreatment is the only way to make it economical if your tap water is super hard. You will also need to invest in a composite storage tank since you can't exactly wash your car with 1gph coming out of your system. I used the RO Mate RO80 model which will store about 37 gallons of RODI water under pressure and is plenty enough capacity to power wash your car, 2 bucket wash and then rinse. I fill my 2 buckets the night before so the system can refill the tank by morning. I have had 000 ppm water since February on one set of cartridges!! The initial cost is a few hundred dollars but it will pay for itsself in one year by not replacing DI Resin every month. Oh, and get the DIW 20!

- Patrick

IMG_0945 by patrick newton, on Flickr
 
pmnewton- That's one impressive RO system!

I don't worry about the "RO system waste water" issue with mine as they're just for drinking water, but I do wonder what your water consumption is with that system (no no no, not knocking it at all, just curious). My purely-residential water bill is pretty high what with two softeners/berme filters/RO systems, enough so that the water company once checked whether we had some kind of severe water leak or something...
 
pmnewton said:
.. You can fiddle around with pressure regulators all you want but it won't change the fact...
Click to expand...

I think there might be some misunderstanding here..pressure and volume; input and output.

The pressure regulators go on the INPUT side of a DI system to keep it from being, as I understand it, "pumped too full of water, beyond its capacity to deal with it all". In my case, my boosted pressure actually blows out the seals awfully fast without the regulator, thing leaks like a sieve unless I limit the input pressure.

It's a *volume* limiter that's useful on the OUTPUT side, and yeah a (properly-spec'ed) pressure washer serves the same purpose as a narrow-diameter hose and/or a moderate-flow nozzle. When I ran a full-flow nozzle I still got 000PPM but presumably it would've killed off the resin in short order.
 
Accumulator said:
pmnewton- That's one impressive RO system!

I don't worry about the "RO system waste water" issue with mine as they're just for drinking water, but I do wonder what your water consumption is with that system (no no no, not knocking it at all, just curious). My purely-residential water bill is pretty high what with two softeners/berme filters/RO systems, enough so that the water company once checked whether we had some kind of severe water leak or something...
Click to expand...

Our water bill averages about $30 per month. The system only feeds the big blue tank for RODI water and a 2 gallon tank for RO drinking water. It is not a whole house setup. The automatic shutoff valve (ASOV) turns the RO system off when the tanks are full so there's no waste. I'm getting about a 3:1 conversion ratio with the two membranes running in parallel, not series.

Accumulator said:
I think there might be some misunderstanding here..pressure and volume; input and output.

The pressure regulators go on the INPUT side of a DI system to keep it from being, as I understand it, "pumped too full of water, beyond its capacity to deal with it all". In my case, my boosted pressure actually blows out the seals awfully fast without the regulator, thing leaks like a sieve unless I limit the input pressure.

It's a *volume* limiter that's useful on the OUTPUT side, and yeah a (properly-spec'ed) pressure washer serves the same purpose as a narrow-diameter hose and/or a moderate-flow nozzle. When I ran a full-flow nozzle I still got 000PPM but presumably it would've killed off the resin in short order.
Click to expand...

I know what you meant. What I was alluding to is that the flow restrictions and pressure regulators will help make the DI resin last longer but it won't be much. The real quantum leap ahead is to feed the DI system the cleanest water you can and that's where the RO pretreatment comes in. I'm still shocked that I haven't changed the DI resin yet. It's been a good 8 months and I wash one or both cars pretty much every weekend! In a few years the membranes will need replacement for $200 or so but hey, it saves a TON on DI resin...

- Patrick
 
If your flow rate is too fast the solids can't be removed. I also take a compressor and blow out the system before I put it away. The resin lasts a lot longer that way.

Been through this whole season and the resin is still good. Not sure if my water is not that bad or the blowing out of. The resin with the co,press or saves it. It's my first season with the cr spotless. Was tired of washing too early or late to avoid spots. This is a pleasure. Should have pulled the trigger long ago.
 
pmnewton- Thanks for the response, and I sure envy you your water bill :D I'd be thrilled if mine were only twice that much!

Guess it's no surprise that your resin is lasting so long with the RO water going in, mine seems to last a really long time and it's just softened and filtered.
 
CR is about 2 miles from my house here in San Diego. I found that after a use, I need to unscrew the canisters, and get all the
water out. I also added a homemade third canister.
 
Yikes, all that unscrewing/draining some people are doing would drive me nuts. I just leave the water in it and basically, uhm...neglect the whole system and I still seem to get plenty of rinses out of it.
 
I've never restricted my flow rate, and I can get 200 gallons out of a DIC20 before I get to 20ppm which is my thresthold for spots.

HOw can a higher GPM rate spent the media when you only used 4 gallons per wash? Your output was 4 gallons total per wash session? Something is not adding up. If you had your flow at 10gpm(for example) and yet the output was 4 gallons, the media only DIed 4 gallons of water.

Cheers,
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top