HELP - SL65 Black Series......softest paint ever

David Fermani said:
When you said Carbon-Fiber it made me :think2 and look again at the title of thread and I then realized it said Black Series. That's a whole different animal. I have a feeling that because these cars have carbon-fiber roof, fenders, hood and trunk lid they *might* be hand painted/sanded/polished which makes alot more sense as to why the paint is soft and filled with halograms. I also e-mailed the factory rep for PPG CeramiClear to get his opinion on the matter. Stay tuned for his response.
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Is it possible that there is added "flex" agent in the paint because of the CF?
 
David Fermani said:
Looks like a real nightmare? All the S's I've done were pretty hard. You're description of the finish is far different then all the others I've heard about too. Has the car been repainted? You did say it had halograms. Regardless, I've be certain to finish down with a DA and Menzerna 85RD.
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Bill D said:
David, I'll second that for sure. Mercedes is known for its Ceramiclear paint. Great gloss but can be a super [female dog] to polish. Menzerna 85RD is an outstanding choice for it and hard clears in general, like my Audi's



I'm wondering if this car is possibly an example of variations of paint processes, even across different paint plants. :think:
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Bill D said:
Wow, a car of that caliber with questionable paint, :eek:
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David Fermani said:
When you said Carbon-Fiber it made me :think2 and look again at the title of thread and I then realized it said Black Series. That's a whole different animal. I have a feeling that because these cars have carbon-fiber roof, fenders, hood and trunk lid they *might* be hand painted/sanded/polished which makes alot more sense as to why the paint is soft and filled with halograms. I also e-mailed the factory rep for PPG CeramiClear to get his opinion on the matter. Stay tuned for his response.
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Thank you very much for the help David, the car is going to be a beast to work on, to say the least. I look forward to hearing what your rep says.



-Kody-
 
Here's my e-mail response from my PPG source:



Hi David,



Anytime the substrate is Carbon Fiber, it is not PPG’s CeramiClear. Sorry, I probably did not mention this early on. I do not have a lot of experience with the SL65 special package, but I do know that the SLR’s (Carbon Fiber containing)are shipped to England to be painted. This is a part of the McClaren package. They use a competitor’s material for these types of application. Ironically, this competitor of ours is often known to provide softer coatings. A low level of heat could be applied to the coating in order to see if the clear will reflow and eliminate the small scratches.





I would say that anytime there is some type of special package, it is more than likely painted outside the plant and could be a different product.



I hope this helps,



Rich



From: Fermani,David [mailto:D[email protected]]

Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 15:34

To: RXXXXX, Richard

Subject: Mercedes SL65 Black Series Finish Question







Hi Rich – Hope all is well and you’re staying busy. A question came up on a discussion forum I participate on regarding a soft paint issue on a 2010 Mercedes SL65 with a special factory Black Series racing package that consists of Carbon Fiber hood, fenders & roof. The person polishing this vehicle is experiencing extremely soft/delicate paint which is the exact opposite of what standard SL’s have seeing that they are equipped with PPG CeramiClear. There is also extensive rotary buffer swirls throughout the vehicle too. Do you know if this specialty vehicle is hand painted and if so is the finish non-ceramic? This would make sense as to why the soft finish and defects present.



Here’s the discussion on the issue:



http://www.autopia.org/forum/machine-polishing/135708-help-sl65-black-series-softest-paint-ever.html



Thanks in advance -



David Fermani
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Sherlock David solved the case! :bow :xyxthumbs





That info is gold. It's good behind the scenes detail only a true Autopian would pursue. Now us paint fanatics know better how to approach that car!
 
So now the question is, is the one I worked on ceramiclear or not? Sure didn't seem like it, but it's not a black series...and not resprayed. :x
 
Good question Kevin? The only SL I did that had soft(er) clear was a pre-ceramic one done recently. Besides that, any S series I've done has been pretty hard. Ferrari uses ceramic clear(not CeramiClear, but TeraMica) and people's opinions are pretty diverse as to soft/hardness. Maybe the one you did was a fluke or batch of test cars? No clue.
 
Great research David!



Here's my take on it, well at least for polishing it. Most polishes are oil-based which make them harder to wipe off, so I would choose a water-based one such as Ultrafina. Since the paint is so soft, you'll want as much lubrication as possible to help the wipe-off afterwards and also with the polishing, so a spray of QD on the pad or on the paint to help give it that extra lubrication would help. Give the paint a couple seconds to cool down and then wipe off the product carefully and hopefully it will be swirl-free!



After that, I would recommend looking into Opti-coat or Aquartz for the Mercedes so the owner doesn't have to deal with that nightmare every single day.



Hope this helps, and best of luck!

Bobby
 
Darkstar752 said:
Great research David!



Here's my take on it, well at least for polishing it. Most polishes are oil-based which make them harder to wipe off, so I would choose a water-based one such as Ultrafina. Since the paint is so soft, you'll want as much lubrication as possible to help the wipe-off afterwards and also with the polishing, so a spray of QD on the pad or on the paint to help give it that extra lubrication would help. Give the paint a couple seconds to cool down and then wipe off the product carefully and hopefully it will be swirl-free!



After that, I would recommend looking into Opti-coat or Aquartz for the Mercedes so the owner doesn't have to deal with that nightmare every single day.



Hope this helps, and best of luck!

Bobby
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Thanks Bobby, the process you deescribed is what I'll be doing. The only QD I have though is M135, will that suffice?



I am putting together an order right now for some more new towels and Opti-Coat, if I know of a different QD that is better that M135 Synthetic Detailer, then I will order that.



-Kody-
 
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