HELP - SL65 Black Series......softest paint ever

kakeuter

kakeuter

New member
My customer has a 2010 SL65 AMG Black Series coupe. Now that he has a storage facility for his cars, I can finally start working on polishing the car.



The car is in extremely rough shape, some of the worst swirls and halograms I've seen.



Anyways, I knew the clear coat was soft, but after doing some test sections, I am in shock at how soft the paint really is. I was using brand new microfibers (Autosmart yellow MFs from Amazon) and they were still marring the paint. I then switched over to the Eurow Shag towels and got a little better results. Even taping off the hood emblem induced scratches, seriously!



I'm afraid that I am going to be inducing more scratches once I start moving around the car and correcting the defects. I want to get the paint as close to perfection as possible, since the only protection I can see using on this vehicle is Opti-Coat or Aquartz.



Any advice as I tackle this thing? I know the process I'm going to use for removing the defects, but any advice for removing polish without inducing more scratches would be appreciated. I'm going to be ordering some coating products, so if I need to try a different towel, I can order something that yall recommend.



Thank you in advance for your help, this is a very very nice car and I really want to make it right again.



-Kody-
 
Looks like a real nightmare? All the S's I've done were pretty hard. You're description of the finish is far different then all the others I've heard about too. Has the car been repainted? You did say it had halograms. Regardless, I've be certain to finish down with a DA and Menzerna 85RD.
 
David Fermani said:
Looks like a real nightmare? All the S's I've done were pretty hard. You're description of the finish is far different then all the others I've heard about too. Has the car been repainted? You did say it had halograms. Regardless, I've be certain to finish down with a DA and Menzerna 85RD.
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David, I'll second that for sure. Mercedes is known for its Ceramiclear paint. Great gloss but can be a super [female dog] to polish. Menzerna 85RD is an outstanding choice for it and hard clears in general, like my Audi's



I'm wondering if this car is possibly an example of variations of paint processes, even across different paint plants. :think:
 
Bill D said:
I'm wondering if this car is possibly an example of variations of paint processes, even across different paint plants. :think:
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Not sure? Regardless, from what one of PPG's CeramiClears reps told me, all the cars manufacturered outside of the US were Ceramiclear. Doesn't amke sense one would be this soft? If it's less than 12 months old I'd call a MB local tech rep and have the inspect the finish.
 
David Fermani said:
Looks like a real nightmare? All the S's I've done were pretty hard. You're description of the finish is far different then all the others I've heard about too. Has the car been repainted? You did say it had halograms. Regardless, I've be certain to finish down with a DA and Menzerna 85RD.
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The car has not been repainted and yes, it's different than most Benz clear coat. The car is mostly carbon fiber that has been painted, I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it. The finish polish I'll be doing is 85RD on the DA, it looks incredible on the test spot.





Bill D said:
Wow, a car of that caliber with questionable paint, :eek:
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Yes, it's roughed up. But given how easy this car marrs up, I'm not at all surprised it's in this condition.
 
Yeah, I mean having that kind of soft paint on that car given that those cars are *supposed* to have special ceramic particle paint is really :eek:
 
I literally just did one of these, well, not a black series but an sl65 amg. I should upload the vids; when I arrived the car had some of the worst holograms I'd ever seen. The paint is incredibly soft. I stuck with the DA for most of the job, except a couple trouble spots. Process was 105/mf cutting pad, 205/white LC, PO8RD/black LC. I found finishing at high speed on the DA with 8rd worked better than lowering the speed down as it broke down.
 
Wow, interesting indeed. I'd like to know if the SL65 uses a different paint supplier out of pure curiosity :think:
 
Picus said:
I literally just did one of these, well, not a black series but an sl65 amg. I should upload the vids; when I arrived the car had some of the worst holograms I'd ever seen. The paint is incredibly soft. I stuck with the DA for most of the job, except a couple trouble spots. Process was 105/mf cutting pad, 205/white LC, PO8RD/black LC. I found finishing at high speed on the DA with 8rd worked better than lowering the speed down as it broke down.
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Yeah, this one has halos everywhere! The test spot i did I used the exact procedure you did, but I used D300 instead of M105, maybe I'll give the M105 a shot and see what it looks like. Thanks for the advise on the finishing speed with the 85RD. I'm really dreading this correction, but it's completely necessary.
 
I tried D300 too but it didn't have enough cut to get some of the deeper RIDS on the car I was working on, so I went to 105. It took me a solid hour of messing around to find a combo I was happy with. :x I will upload the vids tonight, I bet the halo's in the one I worked on are similar to the one you're up against. They are absolutely terrible, super deep too. Have fun! :D



A little more info on finishing; when I was using 8rd/black I was going right to max speed then using light to moderate pressure, super super super slow passes...just left it at max speed, waited for dust, turned off and wiped...that was the best finish I could get. Light pressure/low speed just left micromarring.



I feel bad for the owner, super nice guy but he parks it in a condo garage so it's dusty as heck all the time, and even the slightest touch with dust on the surface leaves light marring.
 
Bill D said:
Wow, interesting indeed. I'd like to know if the SL65 uses a different paint supplier out of pure curiosity :think:
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No idea. I've worked on dozens of black Mercs from the same year and haven't ever run into paint this soft on one. It was worse than late model JB BMWs, very much like a soft re-spray, but I confirmed it wasn't a respray.
 
I did a silver one, and the paint wasn't bad on it, but for such a special car, I'm not surprised. You may want to finish with a red pad and ultrafina. You can also use Menzerna Top Inspection to loosen the polish, for a clean wipe off.
 
I think I read somewhere from a menzerna rep that PO106FA was better for softer clears and PO85RD was better for harders ones. Hmmm I'm gonna have to google to see where I saw that.
 
IME 8rd finishes cleaner on softer clears, but that's just my experience. I like ultrafina too but I find it's hit and miss, I tried it on that SL I mentioned (blue pad, rotary, low speed) and it wasn't as clean as 8rd via DA.
 
Here is that vid if anyone cares. It's 95mb, sorry bout the size, I have no idea how to re-size them. FWIW I know the products the previous detailer used and had no idea they could create halograms this bad (I mean, anything can make halo's, but you wouldn't expect something like this from a light combo)...



http://gtaindetail.com/videos/sl65amgbefore.3gp



That was *BEFORE* I washed it, unbelievably the halograms appeared much worse after the wash :x
 
Ok turns out I'm not crazy. This is what superbee recommended to me a long time ago. He stated that PO87MC is for soft clears, and PO85RD is for harder ones. Saying that 85RD can make a mess of some clears. This directly conflicts the info on the menzerna charts I posted a link too.



schiddy said:
Hey superbee, is it possible to use FP II (PO87MC) with a Griots DA with 4" pads and have it break down all the way like your mentioned? Or is a rotary needed? I have a NHBP honda that I think I might use PO87MC on after m105/m205 after seeing your advice, but I only have the Griots DA.



Very surprised your recommendations are so different from Menzerna's abrasive chart.

http://www.menzernausa.com/Charts/Liquid Summary3.15.10.tiff



PO87MC is now called "Micro Polish", and has an abrasive rating of 2 and gloss of 4.5, while PO85RD has abrasive rating of 1 and gloss of 5.
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SuperBee364 said:
I did note in the post that, even though there is a difference in gloss in Menz's chart between PO85RD and PO87MC, that it really is the same as long as they are used on clears who's hardness is *appropriate* for the polish used, i.e., PO87MC for soft clears (as PO85RD can make a mess out of soft clears), and PO85RD for hard clears (as PO87MC lacks the cut needed to get anywhere on hard clears).



Hopefully someone with more experience using Menz products with a DA can chime in to answer your question. I've never had much luck with a DA and Menz polishes, at all. To the point that using a DA never even comes to mind if I reach for a Menz bottle.
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I'm all confused now lol.

http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-detailing-product-discussion/133107-help-menzerna-products.html
 
schiddy said:
Ok turns out I'm not crazy. This is what superbee recommended to me a long time ago. He stated that PO87MC is for soft clears, and PO85RD is for harder ones. Saying that 85RD can make a mess of some clears. This directly conflicts the info on the menzerna charts I posted a link too.



I'm all confused now lol.

http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-detailing-product-discussion/133107-help-menzerna-products.html
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I hate to disagree with Supe, but in this case I have to. 85rd is my go to for super soft paint. I can sometimes make 106fa work, but 85rd almost always finishes better, ime. As for the DA thing, I'd say I finish 50% of the time with DA and 50% with rotary, depends on the paint, but I have not had issues with 106fa/85rd with a DA. Don't get me wrong, 106fa is a good polish, it definitely has more cut than 85rd, but for the softest paints I always reach for 85rd to finish.



Edited to add: He talked about FPII in that post too. I love FPII, I use it all the time and agree it can finish down amazingly even on soft-ish clears, but again on the softest of the soft I always seem to end up using 8rd.
 
kakeuter said:
The car has not been repainted and yes, it's different than most Benz clear coat. The car is mostly carbon fiber that has been painted, I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it. The finish polish I'll be doing is 85RD on the DA, it looks incredible on the test spot.
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When you said Carbon-Fiber it made me :think2 and look again at the title of thread and I then realized it said Black Series. That's a whole different animal. I have a feeling that because these cars have carbon-fiber roof, fenders, hood and trunk lid they *might* be hand painted/sanded/polished which makes alot more sense as to why the paint is soft and filled with halograms. I also e-mailed the factory rep for PPG CeramiClear to get his opinion on the matter. Stay tuned for his response.
 
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