HD UNO: "How in the BLEEP is that possible?"

DavidB said:
Solo achieves similar results to UNO on fresh paint. Solo is marketed and recommended for repair facilities only.
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Interesting. I always did like the concept of Solo, it's appealing as I have too many bottles of polish.
 
This post does not refer to the HD polish because I have not tried this product.

It sounds like this is going to be a well-received and successful line of detailing formulations. :woohoo: This is great for all detailers that end up using it!



I would like to address "fillers" versus "swelling" because these topics have been discussed before.

It is odd that some guys believe that M105 and M205 are designed with ingredients that fill paint, yet other guys have not seen this happen.

Heck- maybe a guy believes that the product is not "designed" to fill, but it does anyway.



Is one guy "better" at applying these products than the other? I doubt it.

Is one guy a "better" paint polisher? Certainly one could be better than the other, but in reference to both of these questions... does the paint know the difference? :confused:



bufferbarry said:
...Now in comparison to m95, m105, m205, your product is claimed not to have fillers. I think we all know at this point that meg's all have fillers....
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Sorry Barry, I will disagree with your point here.

There are NO ingredients in the products you have listed that were designed to fill or hide imperfections.



Knowing this, I will say that a lot of different things CAN cause SWELLING of the paint, and swelling is sometimes confused as FILLING.

My friend Jason Rose has even written about filling in this post (he was the lead guy on the development of the products you listed):



http://www.autopia.org/forum/car-detailing-product-discussion/117635-ipa-105-205-a-7.html



Jason Rose said:
New to this forum...hope it's OK I chime in?

post #81

Filling of defects...the topic has two facets. One has to do with the realities of any product application, and the other has to do with the product itself.



1) I believe on the black limo you experienced filling. I'm not alarmed nor surprised by this. Happens all the time...to you...to me...and to others who polish cars. Many applications of a compound, polish, or wax can result in filling...even if the product was not intended to fill at all. Any product can do it. You can take a polish and apply a drop on the paint of 10 cars, smash each drop down to a flat even layer of polish, and then wait until dry. When you wipe the polish residue off each car...what will you find? You will find 2-3 cars have no difference from the surrounding paint. 3-5 cars will have darkening of color and hidden defects on that spot, and the rest may have significant darkening of color and major hiding of defects. This will happen with a wide variety of products including compounds, polishes, and waxes.



Now...you have taken the variable of machine or hand application out of the equation. And the result was filling and not filling...same product, but spread out over 10 different paints. With an IPA wipe down, most of the spots on the 10 cars reverted to their same look as the untreated paint. When you add in the variable of machine application on those same 10 cars...you will also expreience a spread of filling and non-filling results over the 10 cars...same product. Every product, any brand, has the potential for hiding defects. Which is why some kind of IPA or glass cleaner wipe down is recommended on a spot check bases before waxing a car. So why is it that the same product can result in filling on some cars and not on others? It's a combination of variables that will make your head spin.



2) Some products fill because they were designed to do so. All manufacturers of car care products know exactly what ingredients they need to put in a product to get it to hide paint defects. It's actually basic chemistry and not very difficult to create a product intended to hide. Some ingredients can actually be described as durable fillers, and hide defects more robustly than others. As a product developer, detail enthusiast, and long time detailer myself...I don't like any filling properties in a compound or subsequent polish. These are two polishing steps I hope to have "what you see is what you get" results. Waxing can hide defects, I'm OK with that. We, Meguiar's that is, believe that most professional detailers feel the same way. Which is why you will not find the ingredients of M105 or M205 to include intentional fillers.
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In discussions with Jason, he has mentioned measuring swelling of the paint simply by pulling a vehicle out of a shady garage. Certainly, the panels expand and contract due to heat (although nobody has proven that the sunlight has or has nothing to do with swelling!)- the primer and paint are obviously attached to the panels, so these films also change shape in tandem with the panel.



I can recall posting that "M105 does not swell paint". Jason reminded me that "...You shouldn't write that because there is no magical solution in M105 that STOPS paint from swelling- if exposure to the sun can cause paint to swell, how can you say that M105 does not swell paint?!" A VERY good point, indeed.



bufferbarry said:
Also bryan try using a prep solvent like dupont instead of your noramal IPA.
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In addition, specific solvents can swell paint specific paint types (this does not relate to cars... but water is technically a solvent, and it can swell latex house paint). This is why it has been mentioned that very strong solutions of IPA can swell paint (a controversial statement, I know... I know). That being said, remember that pre-paint wipe down solvents can also swell paint. As previously posted a while back on this thread (post #58):



http://www.autopia.org/forum/machin...-defect-return-interesting-5.html#post1181630



Kevin Brown said:
Yes, there's some pretty capable solvents out there.

For lack of a better term 'softening' of paint is the only word that can convey what I've experienced.

Thank you for calling me to the mat on my wording-

I just can't come up with an official term used in the body shop realm that identifies the reaction.



Here's one reputable pre clean solvent and their description of what it does:



Product Information - 900 PRE-KLEANO



Application Properties / Characteristics

R-M 900 Pre-Kleano is a silicone, wax, grease, tar and road-oil dissolving solvent.



900 Pre-Kleano will;



- remove contamination from existing paint films,

- slightly penetrate existing paint for good adhesion of subsequent coats,

- clean sanded OEM finishes for repainting.



I just checked a few MSDS sheets online, and some of the products used in wax & grease remover, adhesion remover, solvent-based surface cleaner, (and the like) are:

propane, mineral spirits, stoddart solvent, naptha, xylene,toluene, benzene.



Used properly, I doubt there's long term-effect.

Used on a regularly to 'strip' paint surface of LSP's (or as outlined in ABQDetailer's inquiry)?

It could feasibly dry/alter elasticity of the paint surface, accomlishing exactly what we're trying to avoid- Paint degradation.
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I am simple guy. In the "old" days, I always used a soap and water solution to rinse away remnants of polishing oils and residue to check my paint.

The purpose was primarily to remove the gritty abrasives from the cracks and crevices of the paint.

And six or seven wash jobs later... my polishing was complete. :o



Now that these comparatively "harsh" abrasives have been replaced with smaller and more refined materials, I use a glass cleaner containing alcohol to test polish a panel or two.

Once I have confidence in the buffing procedure, I typically polish the car in complete steps, avoiding the use of spray-on liquids unless needed.
 
yakky said:
Interesting. I always did like the concept of Solo, it's appealing as I have too many bottles of polish.
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I use it all the time on factory as well as fresh paint, and apply it via rotary, random orbital, and by hand.



It is correct that it has been marketed for use on fresh paint only. :grrr

Then again, random orbitals such as the Porter Cable were originally marketed as wood sanders, and some kooky pant polisher decided to strap a buffing pad onto one anyway. :LOLOL
 
Kevin Brown said:
...

Then again, random orbitals such as the Porter Cable were originally marketed as wood sanders, and some kooky paint polisher decided to strap a buffing pad onto one anyway. :LOLOL
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Yes they were, and look at us now!
 
Slightly off topic but...



Whats strange is in direct sunlight there perfect. under halogens its perfect, but yet under a sungun Its something different.
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Does that really matter though?? Aren't we all just looking for perfection in direct sunlight (and perfection under halogens as a bonus)?? To be honest, my car has never seen, nor will it ever see, a sungun. So perfection in direct sunlight is basically perfection as far as I'm concerned.
 
dschribs said:
Slightly off topic but...

Does that really matter though?? Aren't we all just looking for perfection in direct sunlight (and perfection under halogens as a bonus)?? To be honest, my car has never seen, nor will it ever see, a sungun. So perfection in direct sunlight is basically perfection as far as I'm concerned.
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I agree. The real issue, IMHO, is having good light when you polish. The Sun Gun is simply a replacement for good lighting.



Here's the owner of 3D, Tunch Goren, demoing UNO showing the surface with a Sun Gun before and after. Frankly, I think the video lighting showed everything just as well.



http://www.autopia.org/video/HD_uno_m_RC-H.264 800Kbps.mov
 
bufferbarry said:
Ok David By Monday I'm gonna give you a honest post I"m gonna put HD uno Up against a Polish I think is one of the best on the market! Its not to popular in the forums as this company does not advertise hype! Like some companies. I'm one who likes results and not a fancy label or bottle. I could care less if my compounds came in a shampoo bottle with a piece of masking tape labeled product x. Its not the over marketing hype or display. Its what works and doesn't. Now I'm gonna take this challenge and post it. Oh and yes I have been playing with Uno and done some stuff that you would love to know about.
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Barry, I'm curious to learn how your testing went. :tumblewee
 
I have ran out of my M105. Rather than reordering M105 (and M205) I was wondering if I can just order Uno and get better results. Can Uno be used with either foam or cotton applicator pads or the Duopad is a must?



Thanks,

- Vikas
 
I have ran out of my M105. Rather than reordering M105 (and M205) I was wondering if I can just order Uno and get better results. Can Uno be used with either foam or cotton applicator pads or the Duopad is a must?
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You want a low profile/absorption pad with the UNO. I tried it with LC white pad,

and it just sucked it right in. Get Duopad.
 
sontakke said:
I have ran out of my M105. Rather than reordering M105 (and M205) I was wondering if I can just order Uno and get better results. Can Uno be used with either foam or cotton applicator pads or the Duopad is a must?



Thanks,

- Vikas
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Vikas,



If you're polishing by hand, foam, microfiber or cotton will work. Our HD Exterior DUOPAD works the best because it is constructed with the two foams we designed HD UNO to work with. My second choice would be a small microfiber applicator (the 4" by 6" pads are too big). A short nap microfiber is a good in between cut with UNO.
 
How about Meguiar's Softbuff 2.0 Red Cutting and the Yellow Polishing pads? Do they work with rotary? My plan is to try with hand applicator and/or microfiber on a small section but later try to cover all of the car with rotary and pad.



Thanks,

- Vikas
 
The Meguiar's Soft Buff 2.0 pads work great with HD UNO on the rotary, as does the Meguiar's Solo Wool Light Cutton Pad (yellow). In fact, these pads are an amazing match up.
 
Cleaning Fool said:
I ordered my HD Uno over last weekend, still havn't seen a tracking number. Hope it shows today.
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Ooops! My bad. I was in bed sick yesterday and didn't finish my duties. Do you have it now?



db
 
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