Nth Degree
New member
Updated info in blue.
I had planned to do my testing on a friends neglected, black VW Passat over the past weekend. Unfortunately she had a last minute change of plans and had to take the car out of town.:wall So since I have to wait or find another good test vehicle I decided to use my own car to do some preliminary testing. Two problems. 1. My car doesn’t have any significant issues that haven’t already been dealt with for testing the cutting ability.:buffing: 2. The color is just not conducive to testing as subtle differences are minimized by the metal flake. (My hood has been Opti-Coated for demonstration and testing purposes, so the best panel for this was unavailable.) So further testing will be done soon but with the holiday coming up I wanted to at least post my preliminary findings in a timely manner. I will post an update when I get a chance to do more thorough testing.
I resisted reading any other reviews prior to doing my own so as not to influence my observations or testing methods, but have since glanced at a few. I did the testing outside since it was a mild temperature and mostly cloudy so the paint was cool to the touch. I did a 3 way comparison test using HD Cut, Menzerna FG400 and Meguiar’s M105. Additionally I followed up each compound its respective polish on half of each of the test sections. Thus, HD Polish, Menzerna SF4000 and Meguiar’s M205. Unfortunately I discovered my camera failed to pick up the differences that I was seeing in person, so I do not have photos that show the details of my findings. In the photo below the test sections run in the order listed from left to right with the top half of each section being compound only and the lower half receiving the polishing step.
I used a GG6 with a 5 inch BP and LC 5.5 inch flat pads; orange and black respectively all at speed 4 for roughly a minute (a little less for the M105.) I primed each pad and used 3 dots as shown.
My neighbor has a Honda Civic sitting in his driveway with mechanical problems. At some point it received a cheap paint job that was not finished well and it is just in bad shape all around. Great for testing since there is no issue if I screw something up. Take a look.
My plan is to do what I can on half the car, leaving the other half as is. Once it is running again he is going to let me take it to a few car gatherings.
The paint was fairly soft and single stage. It has solvent pop, dust nibs, sanding scratches, etc. on various panels. I started by scuffing the trunk lid with 1000 grade paper.
I then repeated my previous testing with 5.5" orange LC pads with GG6. I kept the respective positions for all tests.
After testing on the trunk lid I discovered how bad the paint job was. The paint on the quarter panel was in better shape so I repeated the test there.
HD Cut on the left, FG 400 on the right.
M105
I then followed up with each using a MF pad to try erasing the tape lines.
I then went back to the trunk lid and tested each with a Makita rotary with 7" LC orange pads.
HD Cut
FG 400
M105
I then tried each with a 7" wool pad on the Makita.
Next I wanted to test the finishing abilities. With the GG6 and an 5.5" LC yellow pad I used HD Cut on the top section after the wool. I worked the polish to exhaustion and got the paint as level as possible. This is how it looked at that point.
I then followed with Menzerna SF4000 on a white pad to get a near perfect finish to start with. Each product was tested with a 5.5" black LC finishing pad. I did above the tape line first, then below to see how it finished after just the wool.
The Close ups.
HD Cut on the left, taped off SF4000 in center, FG400 on the right.
Lower section.
FG400 on the left, taped off SF4000 in center, M105 on the right.
Cut: 4 All 3 made quick work of the swirls that did exist. The cutting ability of HD Cut on the soft paint was very similar to that of the M105. The FG400 fell short of the other two, leaving behind scratches and swirls that the others obliterated. My pads all picked up a lot of black paint but with each type of pad there was a common pattern. The FG400 had the least amount of paint transfer and HD Cut had slightly more each time. It could be inferred that HD Cut was then removing more paint. Even thought the photo above of M105 with the orange pad on rotary doesn't show the holograms, there was significant hologramming. HD Cut did leave more obvious holograms. Another indicator of more cut. I still want to test on hard paint to get a better comparison. Until then I am rating HD Cut and M105 the same since they both handily elimated the scratches and swirls about the same.
FG400: 3
M105: 4
Ease of use: 4. I will say that the thick consistency made polishing smooth. FG400 was along the same line. Both started out very much the same. The FG400 seemed to spread a little more like a finishing polish about halfway through while the HD Cut was more consistent throughout the cycle. Not sure whether either is an advantage or disadvantage in terms of cutting ability yet. Both products seamed to load up the pad rather quickly requiring frequent cleaning. The M105, being more aqueous, does not load the pad as quickly. (I suspect because all the compound is expelled via dust.)
FG400: 4.5
M105: 4
Dusting: 5. While I won’t say I got ZERO dusting, it was darn close. I have gotten the same or more dusting from some finishing polishes. It is also possible that my pads had harbored a tiny bit from a previous product as well. I would only know if I tried new pads. In comparison the FG400 had roughly the same minute dusting and the M105, well…
hwell:
FG400: 5
M105: 2
Work time: 4.5. Since I have not yet tried it with various machines, pads and speeds yet this could either go up or down with further testing. I was not at all disappointed. I did not work it to exhaustion so I don’t know how much longer I could have gone, but I would say 90 seconds or more seems very feasible at that speed. I figured testing this without testing the cut at the same time was pointless. The FG400 seemed to work very much like all Menzerna polishes; very smooth and long work time. And the M105, well…hwell:
The temp when I was doing this testing was roughly 45-50 degrees. When I worked HD Cut to exhaustion with the yellow pad it went far longer than I anticipated, based mostly on my experience with other compounds. I have not worked the FG400 to exhaustion but I would imagine, under said conditions, they would last about the same. Higher temps might affect it. No change to the ratings.
FG400: 4.5
M105: 3
Removal from surface: 2. Removal of the HD Cut was very difficult.:mmph: Even with 25% IPA I had to really work to remove it. I tried cleaning my pad and adding a few more drops and working a short cycle. This helped a bit, but didn’t make it easy. When following up with a polish it is less of an issue. I see this being a real problem, however, when trying to get it out of seams and crevices and when trying to inspect to see if defects have been satisfactorily removed. *
This time around I did not have the problems with removal that I did before. It came off easier than M105. I don't know whether it was the paint or the lower temp. It doesn't really matter though, since David says the issue has been resolved.
FG400: 4.5
M105: 3.5 (Average. Sometimes it's a 3, sometimes a 4.)
Finish after use: 4.5. I will point out that this number is based upon compounds and not finishing polishes. That is to say I would not rate HD Polish as a 5 on this scale, but higher. My reason for following up each compound was to judge the amount of improvement from the compound to the polish. On my not so finicky paint I was happy with the look I got from the HD Cut. On lighter colors I would not hesitate to go straight to LSP. There was still a little haze that was a little less than the M105, but I could not actually make out the micro-marring as I could with the M105. Under more controlled lighting and on black paint I hope to get a better look. The amount of improvement between the lower, polished sections and the upper sections for both the HD and the Meguiar’s were comparable with the HD side still looking a little better/deeper/wetter. The FG400 excelled in this category. My first thought was that it might be filling, which it was… a little. Even after an IPA wipe it still outshined the others in the finish. This leads me to really question how it will actually compare in the cutting category.
I knew the FG400 was going to excel in this category again. My previous numbers stand. Having a near perfect base for this test really helped highlight the differences. M105 clearly left more hazing, but it isn't as noticeable in the photos and the lighting could affect it too. In fact, I would say the HD Cut finished slightly better than the photos here indicate. I did seem to get better finishing from it on the harder paint in my previous test as I felt it was near ready for LSP. This time around I would wanted another step.
FG400: 5
M105: 4
* The difficulty in removal makes the finishing ability a moot point. The likelihood of inducing new marring during removal makes another step necessary anyway.
Flexibility with various machines: 4 All 3 products behaved similarly with the rotary as they did with the DA. M105 had short working time, and FG400 finished far better than the others, but didn't cut as well. HD Cut did leave the heaviest holograms, but I'll take that knowing I'm going to follow with another step anyway. Each product also behaved predictably with each type of pad. I had no issues that would cause me to change my product choice based upon my pad choice. (Though I did read a review of FG400 by Todd Helme that indicated some issues with it and MF pads.)
FG400: 5
M105: 3.5
Price: 3. HD Cut is the most expensive per ounce of the products tested but only by a buck or two, so it is on par. But as a new product and a brand that is still building a reputation the price might have potential customers going for a comparable product to save a few dollars. Just an extra hurdle in getting the products out. I might be inclined to raise that number if I find the cut to be at or above the others.
FG400: 4
M105: 4
* Upon reading Barry’s post about using a little more product being helpful in removal the price becomes a bigger issue. If it takes more product to get comparable results then the product loses some appeal. In my case I had to add more product to my pad and run a short cycle to aid in removal.
Smell: 4.5. I am not one to really care about the smell of a product. Some products, even though it is a relatively pleasant odor, can be too strong, particularly when you are using numerous products in succession. The advantage is that you can quickly notice if you accidently grab the wrong bottle. (Or have a bottle break in a bin in your car.) HD Cut has almost no odor at all, even with my nose right to the open bottle. M105 has a putty type smell that is not very noticeable in practical use. The FG400 has a strong solvent odor. I didn’t notice it when working outside but when washing my pads in the sink with hot water the smell was unpleasant and overpowering; almost like someone had spilled gasoline. I would not want to be working with it in a confined space without good ventilation.
uke:
FG400: 2.5
M105: 3.5
Labeling: 5. I like the stealth-like look of the labeling. It is one of the more eye catching bottles I have seen in the industry. Simple and clean. I like the bright colors for the names of the products.
FG400: 3
M105: 4
One issue I have on this point with all of the companies is that the bottles can sometimes be difficult to distinguish quickly when you have several sitting together on a shelf. Some photos to illustrate:
They look great when lined up, Right? But, unless you always turn you labels, all the bottles look very similar.
It would be great if there were a color band on the label that ran the whole circumference of the bottle; say ¼â€�-1/2â€�. Just a suggestion.
One thing I noticed about the bottle: When I pressed down on the cap to open or close it, the neck had a lot of flex.
I can see this being a potential problem if the bottles become brittle after sitting in someone’s garage in some extreme hot or cold temps. I do like the soft bottle for squeezing. In comparison the Menzerna bottles are very rigid and are sometimes difficult to squeeze. Perhaps a different style of cap would reduce the stress on the bottle’s neck.
Chris Chandler
Nth Degree Auto Detailing
Morrisville, (RDU) NC
I had planned to do my testing on a friends neglected, black VW Passat over the past weekend. Unfortunately she had a last minute change of plans and had to take the car out of town.:wall So since I have to wait or find another good test vehicle I decided to use my own car to do some preliminary testing. Two problems. 1. My car doesn’t have any significant issues that haven’t already been dealt with for testing the cutting ability.:buffing: 2. The color is just not conducive to testing as subtle differences are minimized by the metal flake. (My hood has been Opti-Coated for demonstration and testing purposes, so the best panel for this was unavailable.) So further testing will be done soon but with the holiday coming up I wanted to at least post my preliminary findings in a timely manner. I will post an update when I get a chance to do more thorough testing.
I resisted reading any other reviews prior to doing my own so as not to influence my observations or testing methods, but have since glanced at a few. I did the testing outside since it was a mild temperature and mostly cloudy so the paint was cool to the touch. I did a 3 way comparison test using HD Cut, Menzerna FG400 and Meguiar’s M105. Additionally I followed up each compound its respective polish on half of each of the test sections. Thus, HD Polish, Menzerna SF4000 and Meguiar’s M205. Unfortunately I discovered my camera failed to pick up the differences that I was seeing in person, so I do not have photos that show the details of my findings. In the photo below the test sections run in the order listed from left to right with the top half of each section being compound only and the lower half receiving the polishing step.
I used a GG6 with a 5 inch BP and LC 5.5 inch flat pads; orange and black respectively all at speed 4 for roughly a minute (a little less for the M105.) I primed each pad and used 3 dots as shown.
My neighbor has a Honda Civic sitting in his driveway with mechanical problems. At some point it received a cheap paint job that was not finished well and it is just in bad shape all around. Great for testing since there is no issue if I screw something up. Take a look.
My plan is to do what I can on half the car, leaving the other half as is. Once it is running again he is going to let me take it to a few car gatherings.
The paint was fairly soft and single stage. It has solvent pop, dust nibs, sanding scratches, etc. on various panels. I started by scuffing the trunk lid with 1000 grade paper.
I then repeated my previous testing with 5.5" orange LC pads with GG6. I kept the respective positions for all tests.
After testing on the trunk lid I discovered how bad the paint job was. The paint on the quarter panel was in better shape so I repeated the test there.
HD Cut on the left, FG 400 on the right.
M105
I then followed up with each using a MF pad to try erasing the tape lines.
I then went back to the trunk lid and tested each with a Makita rotary with 7" LC orange pads.
HD Cut
FG 400
M105
I then tried each with a 7" wool pad on the Makita.
Next I wanted to test the finishing abilities. With the GG6 and an 5.5" LC yellow pad I used HD Cut on the top section after the wool. I worked the polish to exhaustion and got the paint as level as possible. This is how it looked at that point.
I then followed with Menzerna SF4000 on a white pad to get a near perfect finish to start with. Each product was tested with a 5.5" black LC finishing pad. I did above the tape line first, then below to see how it finished after just the wool.
The Close ups.
HD Cut on the left, taped off SF4000 in center, FG400 on the right.
Lower section.
FG400 on the left, taped off SF4000 in center, M105 on the right.
Cut: 4 All 3 made quick work of the swirls that did exist. The cutting ability of HD Cut on the soft paint was very similar to that of the M105. The FG400 fell short of the other two, leaving behind scratches and swirls that the others obliterated. My pads all picked up a lot of black paint but with each type of pad there was a common pattern. The FG400 had the least amount of paint transfer and HD Cut had slightly more each time. It could be inferred that HD Cut was then removing more paint. Even thought the photo above of M105 with the orange pad on rotary doesn't show the holograms, there was significant hologramming. HD Cut did leave more obvious holograms. Another indicator of more cut. I still want to test on hard paint to get a better comparison. Until then I am rating HD Cut and M105 the same since they both handily elimated the scratches and swirls about the same.
FG400: 3
M105: 4
Ease of use: 4. I will say that the thick consistency made polishing smooth. FG400 was along the same line. Both started out very much the same. The FG400 seemed to spread a little more like a finishing polish about halfway through while the HD Cut was more consistent throughout the cycle. Not sure whether either is an advantage or disadvantage in terms of cutting ability yet. Both products seamed to load up the pad rather quickly requiring frequent cleaning. The M105, being more aqueous, does not load the pad as quickly. (I suspect because all the compound is expelled via dust.)
FG400: 4.5
M105: 4
Dusting: 5. While I won’t say I got ZERO dusting, it was darn close. I have gotten the same or more dusting from some finishing polishes. It is also possible that my pads had harbored a tiny bit from a previous product as well. I would only know if I tried new pads. In comparison the FG400 had roughly the same minute dusting and the M105, well…
hwell:FG400: 5
M105: 2
Work time: 4.5. Since I have not yet tried it with various machines, pads and speeds yet this could either go up or down with further testing. I was not at all disappointed. I did not work it to exhaustion so I don’t know how much longer I could have gone, but I would say 90 seconds or more seems very feasible at that speed. I figured testing this without testing the cut at the same time was pointless. The FG400 seemed to work very much like all Menzerna polishes; very smooth and long work time. And the M105, well…
hwell:The temp when I was doing this testing was roughly 45-50 degrees. When I worked HD Cut to exhaustion with the yellow pad it went far longer than I anticipated, based mostly on my experience with other compounds. I have not worked the FG400 to exhaustion but I would imagine, under said conditions, they would last about the same. Higher temps might affect it. No change to the ratings.
FG400: 4.5
M105: 3
Removal from surface: 2. Removal of the HD Cut was very difficult.:mmph: Even with 25% IPA I had to really work to remove it. I tried cleaning my pad and adding a few more drops and working a short cycle. This helped a bit, but didn’t make it easy. When following up with a polish it is less of an issue. I see this being a real problem, however, when trying to get it out of seams and crevices and when trying to inspect to see if defects have been satisfactorily removed. *
This time around I did not have the problems with removal that I did before. It came off easier than M105. I don't know whether it was the paint or the lower temp. It doesn't really matter though, since David says the issue has been resolved.
FG400: 4.5
M105: 3.5 (Average. Sometimes it's a 3, sometimes a 4.)
Finish after use: 4.5. I will point out that this number is based upon compounds and not finishing polishes. That is to say I would not rate HD Polish as a 5 on this scale, but higher. My reason for following up each compound was to judge the amount of improvement from the compound to the polish. On my not so finicky paint I was happy with the look I got from the HD Cut. On lighter colors I would not hesitate to go straight to LSP. There was still a little haze that was a little less than the M105, but I could not actually make out the micro-marring as I could with the M105. Under more controlled lighting and on black paint I hope to get a better look. The amount of improvement between the lower, polished sections and the upper sections for both the HD and the Meguiar’s were comparable with the HD side still looking a little better/deeper/wetter. The FG400 excelled in this category. My first thought was that it might be filling, which it was… a little. Even after an IPA wipe it still outshined the others in the finish. This leads me to really question how it will actually compare in the cutting category.
I knew the FG400 was going to excel in this category again. My previous numbers stand. Having a near perfect base for this test really helped highlight the differences. M105 clearly left more hazing, but it isn't as noticeable in the photos and the lighting could affect it too. In fact, I would say the HD Cut finished slightly better than the photos here indicate. I did seem to get better finishing from it on the harder paint in my previous test as I felt it was near ready for LSP. This time around I would wanted another step.
FG400: 5
M105: 4
* The difficulty in removal makes the finishing ability a moot point. The likelihood of inducing new marring during removal makes another step necessary anyway.
Flexibility with various machines: 4 All 3 products behaved similarly with the rotary as they did with the DA. M105 had short working time, and FG400 finished far better than the others, but didn't cut as well. HD Cut did leave the heaviest holograms, but I'll take that knowing I'm going to follow with another step anyway. Each product also behaved predictably with each type of pad. I had no issues that would cause me to change my product choice based upon my pad choice. (Though I did read a review of FG400 by Todd Helme that indicated some issues with it and MF pads.)
FG400: 5
M105: 3.5
Price: 3. HD Cut is the most expensive per ounce of the products tested but only by a buck or two, so it is on par. But as a new product and a brand that is still building a reputation the price might have potential customers going for a comparable product to save a few dollars. Just an extra hurdle in getting the products out. I might be inclined to raise that number if I find the cut to be at or above the others.
FG400: 4
M105: 4
* Upon reading Barry’s post about using a little more product being helpful in removal the price becomes a bigger issue. If it takes more product to get comparable results then the product loses some appeal. In my case I had to add more product to my pad and run a short cycle to aid in removal.
Smell: 4.5. I am not one to really care about the smell of a product. Some products, even though it is a relatively pleasant odor, can be too strong, particularly when you are using numerous products in succession. The advantage is that you can quickly notice if you accidently grab the wrong bottle. (Or have a bottle break in a bin in your car.) HD Cut has almost no odor at all, even with my nose right to the open bottle. M105 has a putty type smell that is not very noticeable in practical use. The FG400 has a strong solvent odor. I didn’t notice it when working outside but when washing my pads in the sink with hot water the smell was unpleasant and overpowering; almost like someone had spilled gasoline. I would not want to be working with it in a confined space without good ventilation.
uke: FG400: 2.5
M105: 3.5
Labeling: 5. I like the stealth-like look of the labeling. It is one of the more eye catching bottles I have seen in the industry. Simple and clean. I like the bright colors for the names of the products.
FG400: 3
M105: 4
One issue I have on this point with all of the companies is that the bottles can sometimes be difficult to distinguish quickly when you have several sitting together on a shelf. Some photos to illustrate:
They look great when lined up, Right? But, unless you always turn you labels, all the bottles look very similar.
It would be great if there were a color band on the label that ran the whole circumference of the bottle; say ¼â€�-1/2â€�. Just a suggestion.
One thing I noticed about the bottle: When I pressed down on the cap to open or close it, the neck had a lot of flex.
I can see this being a potential problem if the bottles become brittle after sitting in someone’s garage in some extreme hot or cold temps. I do like the soft bottle for squeezing. In comparison the Menzerna bottles are very rigid and are sometimes difficult to squeeze. Perhaps a different style of cap would reduce the stress on the bottle’s neck.
Chris Chandler
Nth Degree Auto Detailing
Morrisville, (RDU) NC
