Hard Water Spots from He11

StlShine said:
The steps I have listed were for use on an auto clear coat...

I was also talking about using a small amout of product, not pouring the whole bottle on it.

I agree CLR is an aggressive method, but the reason for rinsing off the CLR at the end is to neutralize the PH.

I have worked in Bodyshops for over 8 years.... blah blah blah.... I haven't had a problem with it yet:inspector:

But all in all, this is what works for me. If it's not your cup of tea, sorry:passout:
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You don't need to have an attitude about this with me...I didn't call your process bogus..its an extremely aggressive product on a very soft clear coat..its like suggesting lacquer thinner to remove overspray...I've done it, but you have to understand every step and then how to correct what the LT has created.

If you followed my link we had a pretty good discussion about CLR and paint, and it was deemed to aggressive for the guy that did...even the web site for CLR says not to be used on painted surface...That dosen't mean that you can't...but I would bet that the result is that you end up having to do some pretty good clear coat correction after..where as a milder acid will do the same but not stain or haze the clear..or run the chances of running the clear.

The one thing that makes this site a good info source is that most everyone gives advice on process that they have used or tried...I got the feeling that you had not used this on a car...and by the fact that you posted it some new person might read this run out and pour some on a car and find out that it did take the WS off and ruin his clear in the process

Just for the record a acid based wash is something that I plan on using but not those that are found in CLR..

Also...if you want to throw number of years and experience into the mix I have over 30 years of hands on detailing experience.

These water spots I had a good idea how to get them off..just wanted to see what others in high calcium water areas do!
 
You don't need to have an attitude about this with me...I didn't call your process bogus..its an extremely aggressive product on a very soft clear coat..its like suggesting lacquer thinner to remove overspray...I've done it, but you have to understand every step and then how to correct what the LT has created.

If you followed my link we had a pretty good discussion about CLR and paint, and it was deemed to aggressive for the guy that did...even the web site for CLR says not to be used on painted surface...That dosen't mean that you can't...but I would bet that the result is that you end up having to do some pretty good clear coat correction after..where as a milder acid will do the same but not stain or haze the clear..or run the chances of running the clear.

The one thing that makes this site a good info source is that most everyone gives advice on process that they have used or tried...I got the feeling that you had not used this on a car...and by the fact that you posted it some new person might read this run out and pour some on a car and find out that it did take the WS off and ruin his clear in the process

Just for the record a acid based wash is something that I plan on using but not those that are found in CLR..

Also...if you want to throw number of years and experience into the mix I have over 30 years of hands on detailing experience.

These water spots I had a good idea how to get them off..just wanted to see what others in high calcium water areas do!
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To start i'm not having an attitude, it seems like the advice i was "suggesting" has been taken as doctrine.

I was merely stating what has worked for myself for years.
but I would bet that the result is that you end up having to do some pretty good clear coat correction after
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I KNOW that after removing a heavy residue a mild correction is involved.:inspector:

Also...if you want to throw number of years and experience into the mix I have over 30 years of hands on detailing experience.
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Hands on detailing does not equal years of product testing and exposure.. PPG, Sikens, Autocolor, Dupont and a few more... ( I have worked with reps for a long time)

Like I was saying earlier; If you think this method is to "harsh" for your practice, you don't have to try it. I was merely try to post a process that has work for me for a long time:wall
 
StlShine said:
To start i'm not having an attitude, it seems like the advice i was "suggesting" has been taken as doctrine.

I was merely stating what has worked for myself for years.

I KNOW that after removing a heavy residue a mild correction is involved.:inspector:


Hands on detailing does not equal years of product testing and exposure.. PPG, Sikens, Autocolor, Dupont and a few more... ( I have worked with reps for a long time)

Like I was saying earlier; If you think this method is to "harsh" for your practice, you don't have to try it. I was merely try to post a process that has work for me for a long time:wall
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We don't have to agree and its painful obvious that we don't.

I'm only pointing out that CLR used on a car for WS removal is an extreme process..it requires a lot of attention, precautions and practice to archive the results desired.

In the years that I have detailed I have seen lots of products used on cars that didn't seem like the right choice...results varied from great to disastrous...CLR has that potential to result in the later, in the hands of a novice..IMO


Hands on detailing does not equal years of product testing and exposure.. PPG, Sikens, Autocolor, Dupont and a few more... ( I have worked with reps for a long time)

So maybe you can explain to me just what 30 years of detailing dose in experience?

The beauty of this site is we all bring something to the table
 
dr_detail said:
Some people used to think the earth was flat and that the sun and moon rotated around it....
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Not sure what you're implying here. I didn't believe this, have you changed your mind?


dr_detail said:
Whether it "belongs" on paint or not is for a chemist to decide (you might want to consult one).
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I agree with you let me know when the chemists make that determination. CLR's chemists haven't thought enough of the idea for the company to make this recommendation. In fact just the opposite. Surely they would like to put one more common use behind this product should it be the ticket. Since you think its a good idea, I'll let you contact the chemist. I can see Billy Mays hawking it now. I'll be eating crow then.


dr_detail said:
In this case it has been proven to be one of the least intrusive methods of removing hard calcium waterspots -- without damaging the paint when used correctly.
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Which case? Was it a study? This is one member who evidently had some success with it on the cars he used it on. That doesn't mean average Joe should be giving it a try. I've tried a lot of things in isolated situations and had great success with them. That doesn't mean I would recommend others do the same. I've also tried doing some of these things a second time under different conditions and known I've made a mistake.

dr_detail said:
You might want to try something before you condem it; for, it is my opinion, that ignorance is cureable.
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Yeah and I might not want to try it. You of course are welcome to do so. I agree with you ignorance can be cured though you may have to use it a few times before you're better.

I'll take these few words from the CLR site and call it good but I'll anxiously await your results because of course they will undoubtedly vary.

CLR Website said:
Can I use CLR on my car to remove rust?
No, it is not recommended to use CLR on a car. It may drip onto aluminum or a painted surface.
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dr_detail said:
I'll mention how some people used to say the same thing about Microfibers (Polyester) -- but have sinced changed their tune.
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Why it has little to do with CLR? Except that the CLR will damage the micor fiber. I'm thinking I'll whistle my CLR tune a year from now and you'll be whistling yours.

At the end of the day, this is of course my opinion and you are just as easily entitled to yours.
 
Hands on detailing does not equal years of product testing and exposure.. PPG, Sikens, Autocolor, Dupont and a few more... ( I have worked with reps for a long time)

So maybe you can explain to me just what 30 years of detailing dose in experience?
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I was not trying imply you were a novice,

I was merely pointing out that Detailing and Painting are too different fields.

Detailing Experience =/= Painting Experience

I seems like everyone was trying to imply I have no idea what I'm talking about, this is not the case.

Thanks I have that here and that's the plan of attack to start...really I have 3 things that I am going to try and see which one works best...all of them are acid based...seems like that is the only way to dissolve the minerals in the spots
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I hope everything turns out well
 
StlShine said:
I was not trying imply you were a novice,

I was merely pointing out that Detailing and Painting are too different fields.

Detailing Experience =/= Painting Experience

I agree! my neighbor is a lead painter for one of the higher end body shops and we talk all the time..when it comes to paint detailing he comes and asks a lot of questions..they are two different things in paint care

I seems like everyone was trying to imply I have no idea what I'm talking about, this is not the case.

I think what came of your posts was this..It not uncommon to have posters join up here with little experience, and start answering questions like they are seasoned vets in the field....you can point them out pretty fast...that said when I read your post that was what came to mind for me...I can see that you are not a novice and respect that you have developed a process that works for you!





I hope everything turns out well
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Thanks it will and I plan on posting up the pics of the process
 
Dave-

This is definitely late, but you'd be amazed at what System One and the Green blended wool Edge pad will do. I detailed a black Audi S4 that had REDICULOUS water spots on the drivers side and it did a great job of cleaning them up :rockon
 
Beemerboy said:
Over this last weekend...I went to watch my niece get married...fun times..about 300 miles each way..road trip with the mighty 540!....they recently got a brand new Ford Focus....light green...they had parked in there apt complex and the sprinklers wet down a good half the car...My niece didn't do anything about it and let the water dry on the car in the hot Nevada heat in July!!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

They have not done one thing about it since:confused::confused:

The day after the wedding we all decided to stay one more night at my sisters house...big family gathering...she asks me to look at her car...no problem..I had my road cleaning gear with me..

I get out to look at the car and you can see and feel the white mineral deposits on the surface...about as bad as I've ever seen...I went to the local auto supplier and picked up some Mothers clay and Megs paint cleaner....The water spots laughed at the clay and PC...there was no effect that I could see..none...I worked on one small area just to see if I could get one small area to clean up..nope!...same with the paint cleaner...I tried some vinegar and water..soaked it like crazy and nothing!!


All I could think of at this point was I needed a rotary and some PP...or some heavier duty clay, the FK1 decon system or set sanding...of which I have all here.

So all this said...after they get back from the honey moon I've invited them here for the weekend to get this corrected...I have ideas..but this is quite possible the hardest water spots I've seen on any car


What do you think?
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Amaz - http://www.detailcity.org/forums/windshield-glass-care/22329-amaz-water-stain-remover.html

Looks like you've already used it on glass. I've used it on paint, and it works, but is a lot of work.

I prefer the tried and true FAST method ~ low dilution hydrofluoric acid. Get the surface wet, spray it on, wipe it off fast, re-rinse thoroughly, and goodbye spots. Only to be used in "severe cases", and I'm sure this chemical is still on the do not use list here.
 
Coastal Eddie said:
I prefer the tried and true FAST method ~ low dilution hydrofluoric acid. Get the surface wet, spray it on, wipe it off fast, re-rinse thoroughly, and goodbye spots. Only to be used in "severe cases", and I'm sure this chemical is still on the do not use list here.
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Hydrofluoric acid may very well do the job, but....
It might be worth doing some research on the safety aspect of it.
It is a product that needs to be handled very carefully and probably isn't for every one.
In the hands of someone that knows what they are doing, it can be quite safe.
In the hands of someone that doesn't know what they are doing, it can be quite dangerous.

Google hydrofluoric acid and do some reading.
 
CharlesW said:
Hydrofluoric acid may very well do the job, but....
It might be worth doing some research on the safety aspect of it.
It is a product that needs to be handled very carefully and probably isn't for every one.
In the hands of someone that knows what they are doing, it can be quite safe.
In the hands of someone that doesn't know what they are doing, it can be quite dangerous.

Google hydrofluoric acid and do some reading.
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Yep - That's why I always hesitate to talk about it.

Been using it for 32 years, and except for the time I spilled about a gallon on my feet, I'm still here.

p.s. my feet are both fine :)
 
Coastal Eddie said:
Yep - That's why I always hesitate to talk about it.

Been using it for 32 years, and except for the time I spilled about a gallon on my feet, I'm still here.

p.s. my feet are both fine :)
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My post was in no way intended to knock your recommendation.
If it came across that way, my apologies.
What I wanted to point out was that Hydrofluoric acid may be fine in the hands of a professional such as yourself or Beemer, but Joe Doe or CharlesW could get into a lot of trouble if they don't know what they are doing. :)
 
CharlesW said:
My post was in no way intended to knock your recommendation.
If it came across that way, my apologies.
What I wanted to point out was that Hydrofluoric acid may be fine in the hands of a professional such as yourself or Beemer, but Joe Doe or CharlesW could get into a lot of trouble if they don't know what they are doing. :)
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No offense taken Charles ~ and I'd tell you if there was :)
 
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