Glaze before Sealant or Sealant before Glaze?
- Thread starter Grabby
- Start date
Well, doesn't Mothers Sealer and Glaze say in the product description say that it can be applied on top of carnuba (without completely stripping the carnuba underneath)? With the combination of products of the original poster, wouldn't it be nice to use:
Prep>KSG>P21S>Mothers Glaze>P21S
You guys think sandwiching a glaze would add more depth and gloss?
Prep>KSG>P21S>Mothers Glaze>P21S
You guys think sandwiching a glaze would add more depth and gloss?
Pennypacker
New member
toyotaguy said:
Personally, I've always done glaze then lsp. Glaze step right after polishing. Depending on the pad used, the glaze I think would remove some or all of anything that's under it (even, I would think, something like Zaino). BUT, if it's applied with a finishing pad, then it's probably okay. I know a lot of people like RMG under 'nuba, Natty's Blue and Souveran in particular.
steelwind101
New member
Hey Guys
In times past, glazes were used before waxes and on top of LSP's. Hence the SHOW CAR GLAZE #7 from Meguiars.
I totally do not recommended that on your DD! As i mentioned above that gives a last thing for show cars.
RMG would go before your wax!
Patrick! I cannot believe you do not use glazes in the conventional method at all, not even in the form of say PPCL or Zymol HD cleanse? I insist you get RMG and give it a shot before you wax!
cjbigcog: I posted the idea for PS and OS, a personal favorite of mine for great winter looks, you wont be done wrong by that combo buddy. RMG before PS is the way to go and that will look awesome! You only need to wait around 30 mins, if that after applying PS.
PS is wax product with out any polymers, it doesnt have a "cure" time its ready to wipe after you have applied it then you can top it. I wait 30 mins to ensure that excess oils wont come out and make sure its all dried and i havent got any hazing etc. that i need to go wipe off before i get stuck in on the PS.
mysteryan: sandwiching a glaze like Mothers 2 doesnt make much odds. Let me explain: An oil based glaze is suppose to go on BARE PAINTWORK. That means paintwork that has either been polished or paintworked cleaned, but is UNSEALED. The oils go in to your paintworks pores, and with Mothers Phase 2, it will even fill minor imperfections as is the nature of the oils content.
If you apply the glaze over a wax, then it cannot go in to your paintworks pores. It will simply fill in minor holes in the wax finish, the rest you will wipe away with with your buffing cloth. Its different with Polymer/Arylic glazes; they acutally sit there like a layer of sealant but with out sealing abilities!
I hope that helps.
Geoff
In times past, glazes were used before waxes and on top of LSP's. Hence the SHOW CAR GLAZE #7 from Meguiars.
I totally do not recommended that on your DD! As i mentioned above that gives a last thing for show cars.
RMG would go before your wax!
Patrick! I cannot believe you do not use glazes in the conventional method at all, not even in the form of say PPCL or Zymol HD cleanse? I insist you get RMG and give it a shot before you wax!
cjbigcog: I posted the idea for PS and OS, a personal favorite of mine for great winter looks, you wont be done wrong by that combo buddy. RMG before PS is the way to go and that will look awesome! You only need to wait around 30 mins, if that after applying PS.
PS is wax product with out any polymers, it doesnt have a "cure" time its ready to wipe after you have applied it then you can top it. I wait 30 mins to ensure that excess oils wont come out and make sure its all dried and i havent got any hazing etc. that i need to go wipe off before i get stuck in on the PS.
mysteryan: sandwiching a glaze like Mothers 2 doesnt make much odds. Let me explain: An oil based glaze is suppose to go on BARE PAINTWORK. That means paintwork that has either been polished or paintworked cleaned, but is UNSEALED. The oils go in to your paintworks pores, and with Mothers Phase 2, it will even fill minor imperfections as is the nature of the oils content.
If you apply the glaze over a wax, then it cannot go in to your paintworks pores. It will simply fill in minor holes in the wax finish, the rest you will wipe away with with your buffing cloth. Its different with Polymer/Arylic glazes; they acutally sit there like a layer of sealant but with out sealing abilities!
I hope that helps.
Geoff
steelwind101
New member
Pennypacker said:
Glazes are PURE polishes, that shouldent have any cleaning abilities, if going on by machine use your softest/non abrasives application pad. RMG when worked by machine has chemical cleaning ability, not by hand though.
Unfortunatly, in these days you cannot assume anything by name on the bottle. Polishes, sealants, glazes etc have all gone away from the detailers dictionary and turned in to some mess of sales slogans and miss understandings.
This industry needs some regulation!
Pennypacker
New member
I agree--the effect of the glaze will depend on the manner in which it's applied. With a polishing pad, it will remove sealant.
(At least on this board, I think most people conventionally use the term "polish" to refer to abrasive polishes.)
(At least on this board, I think most people conventionally use the term "polish" to refer to abrasive polishes.)
So let me get the facts down so far:
Fact # 1:
Sealer and Glaze before the Sealant will shorten the life span of the sealant.
Fact # 2:
The glaze will remove some of the sealant if it is applied after the sealant and not used with a finishing pad
Fact # 3:
Oil Based Glaze needs bare metal to adhere to.
Fact # 4:
Acrylic Sealants needs bare metal to adhere to.
Am I correct?
This thread has got me confused now. I'm still thinking about where to put the Glaze with the materials I'm working with.
Grabby
Fact # 1:
Sealer and Glaze before the Sealant will shorten the life span of the sealant.
Fact # 2:
The glaze will remove some of the sealant if it is applied after the sealant and not used with a finishing pad
Fact # 3:
Oil Based Glaze needs bare metal to adhere to.
Fact # 4:
Acrylic Sealants needs bare metal to adhere to.
Am I correct?
This thread has got me confused now. I'm still thinking about where to put the Glaze with the materials I'm working with.
Grabby
steelwind101
New member
Hi Grabby!
Ok let me go though all the points:
Fact1: Mothers S and G will only shorten the life of SOME SEALANTS. Some are fine with oil based glazes, Klasses, Carlack and Jeffs wont be.
Fact2: The glaze wont remove anything im sure the bad aggression that will. Just apply it by hand, Mothers products you can purchase over the counter were never designed for machines application and you will find S and G gunks up the pad quickly. Only used Power Polish and Power Wax by hand machine from Mothers.
Fact3: You only get the main benefits of an oil based glaze if it comes direclty in to contact with the paintwork. Other wise, as i mentioned i feel you end up wiping most of it away as it doesnt go anywhere. Its purpose is to rehydrate the paintwork.
Fact4: Arylic Sealants can bond over sealants, they do not need bare paintwork to bond too. Thats the great advantage, Arcylic sealants are extremely versitle.
If you want my HONEST HONEST ANSWER with regard where YOU should put MOTHERS STEP 2 SEALER AND GLAZE with your products? You shouldent. There isnt really a worth while place for it to go.
AIO and SG and P21s come in a kit with no glaze from Germany, b/c they work together like this and do not need anything else. The only thing i can recommend is CG EZ GLAZE, applied by hand, after AIO and after every layer of SG. It makes a big difference but darkens the paintwork.
Geoff
Ok let me go though all the points:
Fact1: Mothers S and G will only shorten the life of SOME SEALANTS. Some are fine with oil based glazes, Klasses, Carlack and Jeffs wont be.
Fact2: The glaze wont remove anything im sure the bad aggression that will. Just apply it by hand, Mothers products you can purchase over the counter were never designed for machines application and you will find S and G gunks up the pad quickly. Only used Power Polish and Power Wax by hand machine from Mothers.
Fact3: You only get the main benefits of an oil based glaze if it comes direclty in to contact with the paintwork. Other wise, as i mentioned i feel you end up wiping most of it away as it doesnt go anywhere. Its purpose is to rehydrate the paintwork.
Fact4: Arylic Sealants can bond over sealants, they do not need bare paintwork to bond too. Thats the great advantage, Arcylic sealants are extremely versitle.
If you want my HONEST HONEST ANSWER with regard where YOU should put MOTHERS STEP 2 SEALER AND GLAZE with your products? You shouldent. There isnt really a worth while place for it to go.
AIO and SG and P21s come in a kit with no glaze from Germany, b/c they work together like this and do not need anything else. The only thing i can recommend is CG EZ GLAZE, applied by hand, after AIO and after every layer of SG. It makes a big difference but darkens the paintwork.
Geoff
pulidosmingue
New member
I live in Argentina and here I dont have many products options apart for 3M and DuPont.
I use for prep. the 3M system:
Rubbing compound.
Machine Glaze.
Hand Glaze.
I have for LSP Klasse SG
Cosidering what I read here it will be better to use KSG after 3M imperial machine glaze or that product is oily to.
On other hand, after aplying 3M hand glaze you can paint, so is dificult to belive that this product is oily. Im Right?
Thanks.
Sorry for my english.
I use for prep. the 3M system:
Rubbing compound.
Machine Glaze.
Hand Glaze.
I have for LSP Klasse SG
Cosidering what I read here it will be better to use KSG after 3M imperial machine glaze or that product is oily to.
On other hand, after aplying 3M hand glaze you can paint, so is dificult to belive that this product is oily. Im Right?
Thanks.
Sorry for my english.
jfelbab
New member
I use a glaze on my garage queen. I polish, glaze and wax in that order and just prior to a show I re-apply #7 Show Car Glaze over the wax. the glaze will last through the show and has clearly made the paint look wetter. After the show I just rewax and cover the car.
FWIW, I've never had an issue with Meg's #7 and the bonding of any of their products, be they wax or sealant. In fact on my daily driver, my favorite combo is polish with #80, glaze with #7 or #81 and then seal with #21. I don't have the time to spend polishing out every swirl on the DD nor do I want to remove that much paint on a regular basis and the use of a glaze deals with that quite nicely.
FWIW, I've never had an issue with Meg's #7 and the bonding of any of their products, be they wax or sealant. In fact on my daily driver, my favorite combo is polish with #80, glaze with #7 or #81 and then seal with #21. I don't have the time to spend polishing out every swirl on the DD nor do I want to remove that much paint on a regular basis and the use of a glaze deals with that quite nicely.
citizen arcane
New member
While it's true that there's no better way to deal w/ marring than removal, I opt to remove to a certain level - then conceal. I've had great results using this three step: Menzerna Final Polish II, Menzerna Finishing Touch Glaze then seal w/ Menzerna FMJ.
RMG is Red Moose Glaze right? That is the glaze I use..
Geoff I have a question for you.
Here is my process and I want you to tell me if I'm doing anything wrong or could be doing something better:
Wash
Clay Bar
Optimum Polish w/ PC speed 2 then 5
PB EX-P sealant w/ PC speed 2 then 5
Red Moose Glaze by hand
ClearKote Carnauba by hand
Any suggestions?
P.S. Anyone else can chime in, I just saw that Geoff has a lot of knowledge on glazes, so I'm making sure that I am not wasting the EX-P.
Thanks guys!
Geoff I have a question for you.
Here is my process and I want you to tell me if I'm doing anything wrong or could be doing something better:
Wash
Clay Bar
Optimum Polish w/ PC speed 2 then 5
PB EX-P sealant w/ PC speed 2 then 5
Red Moose Glaze by hand
ClearKote Carnauba by hand
Any suggestions?
P.S. Anyone else can chime in, I just saw that Geoff has a lot of knowledge on glazes, so I'm making sure that I am not wasting the EX-P.
Thanks guys!
MoreBoostPlease
New member
SIK L said:RMG is Red Moose Glaze right? That is the glaze I use..
Geoff I have a question for you.
Here is my process and I want you to tell me if I'm doing anything wrong or could be doing something better:
Wash
Clay Bar
Optimum Polish w/ PC speed 2 then 5
PB EX-P sealant w/ PC speed 2 then 5
Red Moose Glaze by hand
ClearKote Carnauba by hand
Any suggestions?
P.S. Anyone else can chime in, I just saw that Geoff has a lot of knowledge on glazes, so I'm making sure that I am not wasting the EX-P.
Thanks guys!
I'm curious about your process as well.
13thcrusader
New member
yeah, this is a pretty interesting thread. i know at the shop we always buff (usually use heavy compound, then a medium cut compound) and follow up with a glaze. then we either wash/wax or wax/wash.
i've been wondering for awhile how effective this really is :-\
i've been wondering for awhile how effective this really is :-\
steelwind101
New member
13thcrusader said:
HEHE! Your glaze is going bye bye's! But the thing is, are you meaning its a real glaze? Sometimes product makers call things glazes and polishes and they are not.
Also, some glazes, when applied by machine like RMG have a bit of cut and clean.
Geoff
steelwind101
New member
SIK L said:RMG is Red Moose Glaze right? That is the glaze I use..
Geoff I have a question for you.
Here is my process and I want you to tell me if I'm doing anything wrong or could be doing something better:
Wash
Clay Bar
Optimum Polish w/ PC speed 2 then 5
PB EX-P sealant w/ PC speed 2 then 5
Red Moose Glaze by hand
ClearKote Carnauba by hand
Any suggestions?
P.S. Anyone else can chime in, I just saw that Geoff has a lot of knowledge on glazes, so I'm making sure that I am not wasting the EX-P.
Thanks guys!
Hello!
Wash
Clay Bar
Optimum Polish w/ PC speed 2 then 5
Red Moose Glaze by hand or machine
PB EX-P sealant w/ PC speed 2 then 5
ClearKote Carnauba by hand
EX-P Works fine with oil based glazes and that will give you the best results! EXP needs time to cure before you top it though.
Geoff
steelwind101
New member
pulidosmingue said:
Hello
KSG would not go well any oil based glazes, i dont know much about the 3m line but if they are oil based they are not going to work with KSG.
As for putting the glaze on last i would be careful. Lots of people assume b.c this works with Megs 7 the show car glaze that its going to be just as effective with other glazes.
7 was special b/c it skined instead of the excess and carriers and hazing. Alot more product stayed on the surface. 7 is unique in this way, unlike say RMG which tends to try when its not obsorbed in to just a pink dust. When it goes on last there is no room for it to be obsorbed by the paintwork.
Geoff
steelwind101
New member
Hello
Its going to be more effective under your EXP, it wont harm if you put it over, there just wont be much of sticking around. If EXP repells water then its going to repell your glaze a fair bit too.
Geoff
Its going to be more effective under your EXP, it wont harm if you put it over, there just wont be much of sticking around. If EXP repells water then its going to repell your glaze a fair bit too.
Geoff