Getting rid of swirl marks by hand.

T

Taxlady

New member
So, I have a problem with swirl marks on my Volvo:
Volvob05.jpg




After using Meguiar's #9. I see some improvement. (I know, the photography sucks)
Volvoa03.jpg




So, if I just keep using the #9 by hand when I have time, will I eventually see some real improvement? Should I rub hard? Should I just give up on the #9 and try something else? What? I haven't got a PC or access to one. My dh has been very encouraging about my new interest in the car's appearance, but would really think I had gone over the edge if I wanted to get a PC.:p
 
i can honestly say that the time i have saved and will save with the pc is well worth the money i spent($109+tax+CMA pads). since i bought the pc, i have saved lots of time(=money). saving time/money is not crazy at all ;)
 
Why not break the project down into manageable segments if you don't want to buy a PC. One weekend, tackle the hood and trunk lid, the next try the fenders, ect. That way you won't rub your arms off, or get discouraged.



The #9 should be fine, but you could try 3M SMR if you like. Just remember to work it until it is nearly dry and you see the gloss coming up. ;)
 
Manageable segments was exactly what I had in mind. I'll probably get around to ordering the 3M SMR at some point. In the mean time, using the #9, should I work that a lot? With a little or a lot of pressure. If the car is clean and dusted, do I need to wash it first?



I am self-employed from home (I do income tax and QuickBooks consulting) and this is my slow season, so I could do some just about every day. I guess it wouldn't hurt to put some of that Gold Class Liquid Wax on afterwards...



If it looks like it is doing some good, but taking forever, then a PC wouldn't sound so extravagant.
 
If it's clean, I would just do a QD to make sure its free of dirt/dust. You should use a firm pressure to start with, and as the product begins to dry ease up gradually. You will use less and less pressure as the abrasives break down. Also remember to rub in one direction only, not in circles. A couple applications by hand may be needed to do the trick.
 
Thanks for all the help. The bottle says to apply with a 100% cotton terry cloth towel. That's what I did last time and buffed it off with an mf cloth. Does that sound good? Would it be better to apply with an mf cloth? Would it be better to buff with the cotton towel, like the instructions say? I can't imagine that buffing with the mf cloth wouldn't be better, but just in case...
 
To eliminate swirls and scratches permanently in a paint finish is a combination of several things:



1. The right tool, in this case, a high speed buffer

2. The right pad, either a poly/wool blend or foam cutting pad

3. The right compound - for clear coats either a light compound, no less than 2000 grit or a Micro-Fine Compound.



By PC do you mean a Porter Cable Orbital or Dual Action Tool? If that is the case I am sorry to tell you that you do not permanently remove swirls or scratches with an orbital applicator. You might fill them, with the right product, but you will not remove them. To remove these impertections in the paint you need the friction of a high speed buffer at no more than 1750 RPM.



Then you have to follow this with a Buffer; Polishing Pad and a swirl remover/polish.



Then you can use the PC to apply the protection, either wax or paint sealant.



Regards

BUDA
 
Taxlady said:
Thanks for all the help. The bottle says to apply with a 100% cotton terry cloth towel. That's what I did last time and buffed it off with an mf cloth. Does that sound good? Would it be better to apply with an mf cloth? Would it be better to buff with the cotton towel, like the instructions say? I can't imagine that buffing with the mf cloth wouldn't be better, but just in case...
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I think my choice would be a foam applicator to apply and work in, and a MF to remove. If you use a cotton terry towel just make sure it is 100% cotton, and nice and plush. I still think you stand a higher chance of scratching with it over the MF though.
 
I did swirl removal by hand on my car about a week ago. It was a LOT of work. Firm pressure --> lighter pressure as the stuff dries and pretty much begins to remove itself, leaving little to buff off. I used the 3M product by the way.



I bought some EO foam pads a while ago because they have a nice grip on them... but when I started using it I couldn't stand the horrible horrible squeaking/screeching it made as the product dried. I switched to my foam-backed terry Turtle Wax pads pronto and they worked fine and were much quieter!



I can't remember where I read it, but someone terribly important said that it would be a while before using SMR would actually abrade away the swirls. Either many SMR uses or a few good workings with a PC. This makes perfect sense to me and while I did see a wonderful amount of swirl removal I'm convinced that, even though I worked the heck out of each panel/area, that most of this is due to them being just filled in. Filling is okay, especially in your case since you're just doing a non-sealant traditional wax over top of it anyway.
 
Laynlow has a good point on breaking it down to manageable areas. Do a panel a day and just stay focused on that panel until you start to see it turn around and you get the results you want. That might also help keep up the encouragement factor, especially since you are doing it by hand. I did too before I got the PC and foam apps seemed to work well for putting the stuff on. I never really thought I got far using SMR by hand unless I spent a long time in one place. The more abrasive stuff like Perfect it Fine Cut first followed by FI-II or SMR seemed to yield better results- for me. It almost looks like your paint may need something more than SMR or #9 to start with but maybe they'll be fine if you stay with it and do one panel at a time until you get the results you want. Hopefully your dh will see how much work you're doing and realize the PC would make it a lot easier for you.
 
buda said:
By PC do you mean a Porter Cable Orbital or Dual Action Tool? If that is the case I am sorry to tell you that you do not permanently remove swirls or scratches with an orbital applicator. You might fill them, with the right product, but you will not remove them. To remove these impertections in the paint you need the friction of a high speed buffer at no more than 1750 RPM.
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I'm sorry Bud, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. PC does, indeed, mean a Porter Cable dual-action polisher, and I don't believe that I'm alone when I say that I've had excellent results removing swirls with it. I use 3M products that do not contain fillers (Finesse-It II and Perfect-It III), and have removed (not filled) some pretty ugly swirls with the PC. Definitely, a PC doesn't do the job nearly as fast as a rotary in skilled hands; it may even take mulitple applications of a product to achieve the desired results . . . but it can be done.



Tort
 
I have been successful in removing swirls by hand, thanks to this board !!



I purchased a new Porsche 996 Turbo last November, and when I received it from the delivering dealer, it was covered with swirls ( needless to say, not happy !).



I started with #9 followed by P21S wax ( no help). Next, I used #9 2.0, and tried the "rub until it breaks down" method, followed by Blitz. This was better, but you could still see the fine swirl lines in direct sunlight.



Finally, a few weeks ago, I did the following, and it worked !!

3M SMR for dark cars ( car is Guards Red) 2X using a cotton terry applicator, followed by 3M IHG ( took out the slight clouding/haze from the 3M SMR) and then Blitz. The results were unbelievable!! NO SWIRLS in sun or shade. I did the car in sections ( probably 20 hours total), took my time and made sure every panel was right before I moved on.



I am very happy now:)
 
I detailed a black Suburban this weekend that had just had the hood repainted (it was a new truck and they bought a cowl-induction hood for it) for the second time and of course, they swirl the crap out of it.



I started with Meguiars Dual Action Cleaner/Polish which starts off aggressive but quickly breaks down into a light polish. I applied it with a terry cloth towel folded into 1/8ths and work the DAC/P into the paint until it was nearly clear and dry-I went over the entire hood twice with a noticable improvement and a much slicker feel to the hood. I then switched to Meguiars Swirl Free Polish, and again, using a terry cloth towel and working the product until it was nearly clear and dry, went over the entire hood twice.



Since the paint was fresh and not baked at a high heat, I couldn't wax it, but I did apply Clearkote's Quikshine QD to give it some protection. I wash the Suburuban weekly and will continue to QD the hood until it is okay to wax it.



Here are the before and after pics:



swirls_before.jpg




swirls_after2.jpg
 
Wow Scottwax, that looks great. Did you use a PC?



Thanks for all the encouragement everyone.



v85097, I was talking to my hubby this morning and when he saw the improvement in the swirl marks so far, his reaction was, "Well, let's see how it goes. If it looks like it's doing some good, then a PC is probably a good idea."



This from a man who hasn't learned to drive yet and isn't much interested in cars. BTW, he was named after Stirling Moss, the race car driver, and got to sit in Moss's car when he was four years old.
 
Great work Scottwax! According to some old e-mails that I have from you, you are able to hand polish an entire car with DACP in under one hour. That is simply amazing.



I still have some ClearKote left that you sent me. I tried some of it over the weekend and it did a great job of slickening and shining up the paint.
 
TaxLady, your 'hubby' stories crack me up. Sometimes I drive my wife crazy when I talk about autodetailing with her. It's sort of the way I am often forced to listen to her stories and opinions about dresses or shoes she saw the other day.



As for swirl-removal by hand via #9, I would definitely recommend something stronger..like DACP. When using #9 by hand, I found that the amount of cutting power I get is closer to that of a paint cleanser type of product than something that would actually remove swirls.
 
What's DACP. Don't tell me to check the acronym list - I have it printed out and it's not on it. :nixweiss



I have a friend who thinks I'm nuts with all this car care stuff. But, the other day he said, "Imagine that, you buy a Volvo and then you want to keep it looking good." So, I think he is beginning to think I'm less nuts.



I do the car care work in the underground garage of my condo complex. Some of the neighbours look at me and shake their heads. Others outright tell me that that much effort is a waste of time. And then, there's one young guy who comes over says, "Looking good." But, his great big jeep looks good too. He doesn't do it himself, 'cause it's huge.
 
I view the purchase of a PC not as just a means to remove swirls but as the opportunity to development a new skill. About a year ago one autopian posted a picture of the shower tile he had polished with his PC. I believe he use Klasse.



There is more than one way to skin a cat. I wonder where that saying came from?



Good Luck
 
Sorry about the acronyms.. to find out what DACP is, click the link below and scroll down to the product called Body Shop Professional Dual Action Cleaner/Polish.



Meguiars Online



Another alternative is to try 3M's Finesse-It II (CMA recently added it to their product list). It's definitely the best swirl remover I've ever used. I haven't tried DACP yet, but I hear it's about the same in terms of abrasiveness but is more forgiving and easier to use.



I live in a condo too and was getting very tired of the lighting as well as comments from my neighbors ("when you gonna do MY car?"). I tried to bring down my own lights but a few board members saw me and quickly told me that was a no-no. Detailing outside was also a problem because of the dust. I found the perfect solution a few months ago when I discovered that the parking structure across the street from me (I live in the city) is open to the public on weekends, has a lot of lights as well as indirect sunlight, has a nice breeze all the time, is very empty (no more stupid comments) and best of all, it has electrical outlets! :xyxthumbs
 
Very well put! And I agree!



TortoiseAWD said:
I'm sorry Bud, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. PC does, indeed, mean a Porter Cable dual-action polisher, and I don't believe that I'm alone when I say that I've had excellent results removing swirls with it. I use 3M products that do not contain fillers (Finesse-It II and Perfect-It III), and have removed (not filled) some pretty ugly swirls with the PC. Definitely, a PC doesn't do the job nearly as fast as a rotary in skilled hands; it may even take mulitple applications of a product to achieve the desired results . . . but it can be done.



Tort
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