Garage Wash or Auto this Winter?

StadiumDetail said:
I tried the propane heaters in my shop last year, and although they worked fast and well the fumes certainly gave me a headache. I have heard the opposite of what ten39 said about kerosene, that it burns away cleaner than propane with little to no fumes and it is certainly cheaper to run. I still think the torpedo heaters is your best route to take, but research it a bit because there seem to be conflicting reports.



Also consider a combination of everything mentioned in this thread. Start at the local coin-op to blast out under your car and the bulk of the dirt, drive the car home to park in the garage and leave it for 30min with the propane/kerosene heater running, then do your ONR wash. This is a great way to get the best possible wash at the cheapest price while staying reasonably confortable.





EDIT: Looked quickly around the web and it seems kerosene and propane boht have the same problem, carbon monoxide. One doesn't seem to be any worse than the other, but every site mentioned a CO detector should be installed when in use. That really isn't a bad idea if you use the torpedo heater.
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Most guys crack a door or window when using either a propane or kerosene heater for the carbon monoxide issue, and the instructions recommend such. The venting needed is not much though. One of the 50K BTU units I'm looking at only recommends two 1/4 cu. ft. sized "vents" in your workspace.



My personal experience is with radiant and forced air kerosene heaters, and they're far from clean burning. They tend to kick out a smoke cloud on startup and shutdown, and they smell terrible even in full power use. No matter the level of efficient combustion, kerosene/diesel/jet fuel just puts off some nasty fumes.



If propane is giving you a headache, it's CO, not fumes. Remember propane is an odorless gas both in static form, and in combustion. The "smell" is just put in there at the production stage for safety issues.
 
I have a ng blue flame heater in my garage. It will heat my 2 car garage from 20 to 70 degrees in about 30 minutes. I "upsized" when I selected one and bought a wall mounted 30k BTU unit with a thermostat and blower. Could easily use a 10K unit but I wanted the ability to heat it quickly. Once it's warm I can leave it on a very low setting and maintain 72 degrees throughout the winter. Nothing better than climbing into a pre-heated car or detailing and working in a tee shirt :) If you live in a cold climate, this is a no brainer, every garage should have one.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
What are you talking about? Propane and NG are virtually interchangeable. And the NG that is coming into your house is regulated to less than half a psi.
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Sorry, products designed for propane use, and those for natural gas use, are not immediately interchangeable. If they were, the manufacturers of water heaters, kitchen stoves, furnaces, overhead shop heaters, outdoor grill, etc., etc., would not make two different part numbers of the same basic unit. Nor would they make conversion kits to switch from one to another.



As for PSI argument, per the owner's manual for one of the units I linked above, the regulator requires a max/min input of 200/20 PSI, and an output of 10 PSI. Ironically, it's listed right under the requirement that says "for propane use only", which is stated several more times in the manual.



(Page 2)



http://www.mrheater.com/upload/newsletter/70036 MH_HS_35FA_REV_C.pdf



All this considered, how is a propane heater like this even remotely compatible with a plumbed-in 1/2 PSI natural gas line.
 
ten39 said:
All this considered, how is a propane heater like this even remotely compatible with a plumbed-in 1/2 PSI natural gas line.
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Hey, I guess this proves a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and that you're more knowledgable than me. Eh...they're all just hydrocarbons to me. Can't go wrong with coal. :2thumbs:
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Hey, I guess this proves a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and that you're more knowledgable than me. Eh...they're all just hydrocarbons to me. Can't go wrong with coal. :2thumbs:
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I'm have no more innate knowledge on this than the average guy. I've just looked into this a couple of times in my own life, especially recently.
 
ten39 said:
I'm have no more innate knowledge on this than the average guy. I've just looked into this a couple of times in my own life, especially recently.
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Well apologies and kudos to you for your superior propane knowledge.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Well apologies and kudos to you for your superior propane knowledge.
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Okay the sarcasm meter I ignored earlier is now pegged.



If you don't like my response about why you couldn't run a portable propane torpedo heater with plumbed natural gas, then go back and attack my links and reasoning, not this petty trash.



You've offered nothing but conjecture from the hip to support your angle. I offered information and specs from the guys who engineer these things.



Cliffs Notes:



Plumbed natural gas- 1/2 PSI



PSI required for example unit- 10 PSI

Natural gas compatibility for example unit- none



^Start from here and tell me how I'm wrong.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
If you look at it that way, any Autopian solution is going to be more expensive than going to the car wash, even a summer wash, if you factor in the cost of your time.



Having washed outside with a hose when it's 33°F, I think 65 inside with ONR is more than you need. If you can get it to 50 you should be fine.



Only you can decide if it's worth it. I haven't been to a tunnel wash since before the last time we had a balanced budget.
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I agree with Setec here. There have been numerous times that I have washed my car with ONR, a boars hair brush on the end of a pole, and rubbler gloves in my non heated garage while there was snow on the ground. While washing the car I will often have to remove the top layer, so me getting cold is not a problem. Something else that helps is washing my car after I have driven it for a while. The heat of the engine will warm up my garage a little bit too.
 
StadiumDetail said:
ten, thanks for the first hand info on the kerosene, I only know what i've been told and never had first hand knowledge of those units.
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No problem. If you don't mind the smell, there's nothing really wrong with them. It gives me a headache though, even properly vented. Not everyone has that problem. YMMV.



BTW you can go over to the Garage Journal and search threads about this stuff. There's a lot of info there on garage heat options.
 
Ego, you're over-doing this unless you seek to needlessly complicate it. And this is coming from a guy who places a high price on keeping cars clean during such an ugly time of the year.



Get one of the kerosene 55k BTU heaters (Home Depot, etc.) and a couple of gallons of kerosene. It will cost you no more than $20 per season to do what you want to do.



These heaters heat quickly, you're in, you're out and you're done before you know it. A great temp to shoot for is around 45F - 50F and the stuff isn't drying on the car if you do a conventional wash (vs. ONR). I'm never in the fumes long enough that it makes me feel sick or get a headache.



Sometimes I rinse the horrific filth off the car in the driveway and then roll the car back inside. I'll do either a conventional wash with full wheel cleaning or may use ONR depending on my mood.



Some people have put plastic sheeting on their walls so the sheet rock isn't getting wet should they wish to do a full wash indoors and squeegee the floor dry afterwards.



Two key things about the kerosene and sourcing it. Home Depot typically gets a small amount of this synthetic kerosene and it's expensive but it burns super-clean and has no odor. It's an XOM product. 2nd best choice is buying 2.5 gallon containers of clear kerosene from your local hardware store/paint store. It's more refined than the stuff you purchase at the gas station and burns very clean.



I’ve gone thru three of these torpedo style heaters and this newest one I’ve got is quite a bit cleaner than the previous. I don’t know if that’s tied to ever-tightening emissions rule but it’s really very good in terms of odor/fumes.



When I’m all done, I dry the floor, blow out the leaves, air the place out and marvel at my strikingly clean fleet! Enjoy.



(If none of this works or is feasible, I’d do the spray car wash booth and carrying along a pre-mixed bucket (w/lid) and go clean the cars that way..during an off-peak time, of course! There are a bunch of threads on this discussion.)
 
tom p. said:
Ego, you're over-doing this unless you seek to needlessly complicate it. And this is coming from a guy who places a high price on keeping cars clean during such an ugly time of the year.



Get one of the kerosene 55k BTU heaters (Home Depot, etc.) and a couple of gallons of kerosene. It will cost you no more than $20 per season to do what you want to do.



These heaters heat quickly, you're in, you're out and you're done before you know it. A great temp to shoot for is around 45F - 50F and the stuff isn't drying on the car if you do a conventional wash (vs. ONR). I'm never in the fumes long enough that it makes me feel sick or get a headache.



Sometimes I rinse the horrific filth off the car in the driveway and then roll the car back inside. I'll do either a conventional wash with full wheel cleaning or may use ONR depending on my mood.



Some people have put plastic sheeting on their walls so the sheet rock isn't getting wet should they wish to do a full wash indoors and squeegee the floor dry afterwards.



Two key things about the kerosene and sourcing it. Home Depot typically gets a small amount of this synthetic kerosene and it's expensive but it burns super-clean and has no odor. It's an XOM product. 2nd best choice is buying 2.5 gallon containers of clear kerosene from your local hardware store/paint store. It's more refined than the stuff you purchase at the gas station and burns very clean.



I’ve gone thru three of these torpedo style heaters and this newest one I’ve got is quite a bit cleaner than the previous. I don’t know if that’s tied to ever-tightening emissions rule but it’s really very good in terms of odor/fumes.



When I’m all done, I dry the floor, blow out the leaves, air the place out and marvel at my strikingly clean fleet! Enjoy.



(If none of this works or is feasible, I’d do the spray car wash booth and carrying along a pre-mixed bucket (w/lid) and go clean the cars that way..during an off-peak time, of course! There are a bunch of threads on this discussion.)
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Wow....thanks for the info about the synthetic kerosene. I will have to check Lowe's and see if they carry that. I'm all about the healthiness of the products and stuff that I use around my house, myself and my family.



Of course....you ought to know that I just filled my heater's tank yesterday with Gas Station Kerosene. Oh well, it only holds about 1.5 gallons and cost me about 7 bucks.
 
Yeah, I find the gas station-sourced kero has the most odor of anything I've tried.



I purchased a 2.5 gallon jug on Saturday for $20 from my local Ace Hdwe. It burns very clean w/minimal odor.



The syn product from HD might be referred to as a kerosene "replacement" or "substitute".
 
i wash vehicles in my driveway.... if it is 30 * or higher...... onr and a rinse bucket.



i'm not going to spend the $ to take it somewhere..... and i would rather correct any paint issues in the spring knowing i did everything i could to keep the paint in tip top shape
 
I washed my Corvette in my driveway the other day when it was only 27F. The sun was shining and there was no wind, so I was able to wash and dry the car completely and none of the water froze on the paint. In previous winters I went to a local detail shop every Saturday and paid them $15 to do a good hand wash (they dried it with a leaf blower for me as well) but I'm trying to save money this year, so I haven't been going there any more.



For the first time ever last night, I decided to try washing my car in the garage. I only have a single car garage, with no drain in it and no heater, but because I live in a townhouse and the garage has no walls that face the elements (plus our bedroom is above it) it actually stays pretty warm in there. It was almost 50 degrees in there, more than comfortable enough for me. It was a tight squeeze (especially since I parked it closer to the other wall to give myself more room to open my door) but still manageable. I had to crack the garage door to let some of the excess water run out when I was done, but the rest of it ended up drying up pretty fast afterwards. You just gotta be careful not to spray the hose too aggressively if you've got stuff in your garage that you don't want to get wet. But this certainly beats paying someone else to wash your car, and is 1000 times better than those automatic car washes. I can't get under the car to spray the undercarriage, but that can wait for a warmer day anyhow, the main thing for me is that I hate that nasty road salt sitting on my paint, and I just can't stand seeing my car look dirty. I'm surprised I didn't try this sooner, it was only after having a bunch of Long Island Iced Teas last night that I came up with this idea, I guess my best ideas come after a night of drinking? :getdown
 
I installed a bulldog 45000BTU natural gas heater in my garage.. $600 I did the installation. Not to code, but I've been using it for 4 years, haven't burned the house down ;-) I can get it HOT in the 3 car garage with high ceilings.



Sorry to be naive, but what does ONR stand for?
 
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