Ford continues to struggle...

I'd like to chime in and say having a family thats been in the farming industry for years they all drive FORD. They drive and abuse the crap out of them and have owned or driven other manufactures trunks out in the fields loaded and unloaded. They ALL continue to purchase Fords because they have had less insues and or complaints. Over all not one manufature has made them switch (and yes they have given others a chance).
 
rjstaaf said:
Name a couple of areas because I just don't see what you are talking about but, then again I have been called Captain Oblivious by loved ones before :D
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I don't know why they chose to omit Nissan from the frame part but they did while all the others were included. The drive line section ONLY includes Toyota.
 
SpoiledMan said:
I don't know why they chose to omit Nissan from the frame part but they did while all the others were included. The drive line section ONLY includes Toyota.
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I do know that the Nissan uses a boxed frame. Like I said before, most likely they are chosing the trucks that are the weakest in each category.



Here is a link to both the Titan and F150 frames. One thing that I see off the bat is that on the Titan it does not appear that the crossmembers go through the frame. They appear to be attached to the inside of the frame rail only. Through welding adds a lot of strength and rigidity to the frame.



Titan

http://www.nissannews.com/multimedia/nissan2005/titan/color/10_titan_frame.jpg



F150

http://z.about.com/d/trucks/1/0/n/04_f150_boxframe.jpg
 
Super said:
NOT TRUE

Nissan and Toyota's don't have the horsepower or the torque they are """"""low geared""""" and under powered by small engines.



Ford & Chevy’s is what made America, you don’t see Nissan and Toyota's with a lot of weight towing trailers and if you do they are going slow at a snails pace going up a small hill.
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ALL trucks are LOW GEARED that's the nature of a truck. It's built to work even if it is just a midsize. Compare these specs taken from each manufacturer's website, and keep in mind that the F-150 sports a 4.6L V8, and the Nissan a 4.0L V6.



FORD F-150

248hp @ 4750rpm

294 lb ft of torque @ 4000rpm



Nissan Frontier

265hp @ 5600 rpm

284 lb ft of torque @ 4000 rpm



Both Toyota and Nissan's "full size" trucks are above the Ford in terms of performance. Your statement is just plain wrong.



Again, torque is what moves loads...not horsepower. There is some science there, but torque is moving you off the line. In this regard look at these specs and you be the judge. Granted the V8s curve may be more useable in the real world and less car shaking, but which company is getting the most from their engine? Ford's trucks may be built solidly, but I still say they are gutless when you mash the pedal. I would expect better specs from a V8.



As for Ford and Chevy "making America" I disagree. I am a huge Chevy fan, but they are not "making" America these days my friend. The new Camaro will be built in Canada, the HHR is built in Mexico, the Aveo is built in South Korea, and so on. I would say Ford builds more of their vehicles in the States than Chevy does, but let's not even get into where the parts come from for these cars. Today's economy is global and that is reflected in most major companies.
 
Tasty said:
Ford's trucks may be built solidly, but I still say they are gutless when you mash the pedal. I would expect better specs from a V8.
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Take a trip in a Ford Lightning :D
 
wytstang said:
Take a trip in a Ford Lightning :D
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No longer being made though...



I have several customers with newer (2005 and up) F-150s and while they love the styling, interior, etc, every single one says the truck just doesn't accelerate like they expected it to with 300 hp. :nixweiss



FWIW, my brother's V6 Honda Oddessy has better acceleration than their V8 Mercury Mountaineer. :eek:



The F-250 though, I'd take that in a heartbeat. Definitely the best looking heavy duty truck on the market. Amazing performance with even the stock diesel engine. :2thumbs:
 
Scottwax said:
The F-250 though, I'd take that in a heartbeat. Definitely the best looking heavy duty truck on the market. Amazing performance with even the stock diesel engine. :2thumbs:
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Agreed, and you can tweak the crap out of those things and make them tire roasting monsters. I saw an extended cab F-250 today totally stock and it looked good. Kind of stubby with that big blunt front end. I like 'em.
 
Tasty said:
ALL trucks are LOW GEARED that's the nature of a truck. It's built to work even if it is just a midsize. Compare these specs taken from each manufacturer's website, and keep in mind that the F-150 sports a 4.6L V8, and the Nissan a 4.0L V6.



FORD F-150

248hp @ 4750rpm

294 lb ft of torque @ 4000rpm



Nissan Frontier

265hp @ 5600 rpm

284 lb ft of torque @ 4000 rpm



Both Toyota and Nissan's "full size" trucks are above the Ford in terms of performance. Your statement is just plain wrong.



Again, torque is what moves loads...not horsepower. There is some science there, but torque is moving you off the line. In this regard look at these specs and you be the judge. Granted the V8s curve may be more useable in the real world and less car shaking, but which company is getting the most from their engine? Ford's trucks may be built solidly, but I still say they are gutless when you mash the pedal. I would expect better specs from a V8.



As for Ford and Chevy "making America" I disagree. I am a huge Chevy fan, but they are not "making" America these days my friend. The new Camaro will be built in Canada, the HHR is built in Mexico, the Aveo is built in South Korea, and so on. I would say Ford builds more of their vehicles in the States than Chevy does, but let's not even get into where the parts come from for these cars. Today's economy is global and that is reflected in most major companies.
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I did not say making America I said they made America please if you are going to quote me get it right. So Nissan is going for bigger engines now that's nice. More power comes problems and believe me a good engine does not come cheap and a new engine that just came up I would wait to buy one to see what kind of problems they have. Hp there is different ways to measure Hp at the wheels or at the engine. Ford and Chev always gives lower numbers to there Hp listings. Like my older Ranger its listed is 165 Hp but at the dyno it puts out 190 Hp, Newer Rangers have even more Hp, I have seen the Ranger go to 0-60 in less then 1.800 foot ET and if the Nissan truck can do that then I will be impressed, I can’t wait to see the Nissan truck at the track. Hey I’m for competition. Myself I would not buy a Nissan truck I just don’t like the way they look, F150 King Ranch is the truck I like.



“Both Toyota and Nissan's "full size" trucks are above the Ford in terms of performance. Your statement is just plain wrong.�

Well seeYea at the track OH but wait there is no Nissan's at the track hehehehhe
 
Tasty said:
ALL trucks are LOW GEARED that's the nature of a truck. It's built to work even if it is just a midsize. Compare these specs taken from each manufacturer's website, and keep in mind that the F-150 sports a 4.6L V8, and the Nissan a 4.0L V6.



FORD F-150

248hp @ 4750rpm

294 lb ft of torque @ 4000rpm



Nissan Frontier

265hp @ 5600 rpm

284 lb ft of torque @ 4000 rpm



Both Toyota and Nissan's "full size" trucks are above the Ford in terms of performance. Your statement is just plain wrong.



Again, torque is what moves loads...not horsepower. There is some science there, but torque is moving you off the line. In this regard look at these specs and you be the judge. Granted the V8s curve may be more useable in the real world and less car shaking, but which company is getting the most from their engine? Ford's trucks may be built solidly, but I still say they are gutless when you mash the pedal. I would expect better specs from a V8.
Click to expand...



If you are going to talk strictly HP/torque than sure Toyota and Nissan have a "slight" edge. How about we compare something significant to a truck like towing capacity? Ford's whimpy little 5.4 can tow a maximum of 9900lbs, 400 more than the Nissan Titan and looks to be about 2500 more than the Toyota Tundra. Seems Nissan has some trouble translating that HP and Torque into something useful like towing capacity :D Some of you seem so focused on the one area that Toyota and Nissan have a "slight" edge over Ford and forget that "slight" edge is pretty insignificant for a truck that is designed for work, not the drag strip. There is more to a truck than just HP and Torque and Ford has a complete package...



As to the gutless claim. I have heard it for years from guys who move from the 5.0l pushrod powered Mustang to a newer 4.6l OHC powered Mustang. The complaint doesn't last long once they get used used to the difference in the powerbands of the motor.
 
Tasty said:
ALL trucks are LOW GEARED that's the nature of a truck. It's built to work even if it is just a midsize. Compare these specs taken from each manufacturer's website, and keep in mind that the F-150 sports a 4.6L V8, and the Nissan a 4.0L V6.



FORD F-150

248hp @ 4750rpm

294 lb ft of torque @ 4000rpm



Nissan Frontier

265hp @ 5600 rpm

284 lb ft of torque @ 4000 rpm



Both Toyota and Nissan's "full size" trucks are above the Ford in terms of performance. Your statement is just plain wrong.



Again, torque is what moves loads...not horsepower. There is some science there, but torque is moving you off the line. In this regard look at these specs and you be the judge. Granted the V8s curve may be more useable in the real world and less car shaking, but which company is getting the most from their engine? Ford's trucks may be built solidly, but I still say they are gutless when you mash the pedal. I would expect better specs from a V8.
Click to expand...



If you are going to talk strictly HP/torque than sure Toyota and Nissan have a "slight" edge. How about we compare something significant to a truck like towing capacity? Ford's whimpy little 5.4 can tow a maximum of 9900lbs, 400 more than the Nissan Titan and looks to be about 2500 more than the Toyota Tundra. Some of you seem so focused on the one area that Toyota and Nissan have a "slight" edge over Ford and forget that "slight" edge is pretty insignificant for a truck that is designed for work, not the drag strip. Seems Nissan and Toyota have some trouble translating that HP and Torque into something useful like towing capacity :D



As to the gutless claim. I have heard it for years from guys who move from the 5.0l pushrod powered Mustang to a newer 4.6l OHC powered Mustang. The complaint doesn't last long once they get used used to the difference in the powerbands of the motor.
 
Towing capacity depends all a lot of things, tires, weight of the truck, tran., cooling, brakes and the engine. You should not tow more then what your truck weights because you might fishtail maybe with an expectation of a dully.

Is what you are saying Toyota and Nissan can out tow and has more power then a Ford trucks? Let’s take a look at Chevy trucks Chevy uses the same transmission used in M1 Abrams tanks, Allison 1000 6-speed, grade braking, tow mode. Engine Vortec 8.1L V8 SFI, (330 hp [245.8 kW] @ 4200 rpm, 450 lb-ft of torque.

Ford trucks 6.0L Power Stroke® Turbo Diesel 32-valve V8 Hp 325@3,300 Torque 570@2,000.

Dodge trucks I just don’t have time to look up the info on there web site.



“Both Toyota and Nissan's "full size" trucks are above the Ford in terms of performance. Your statement is just plain wrong.� OK let’s take a Ford Ranger Vs Toyota Taco or a Nissan Frontier at the track you want to put up your pink slip? At the track bull sh*t walks. But the Ranger is a mid size truck. You said “full size� I would make a good money wager on that on the track! How about empty and then a ton weight in the back.

I’m by far not an expert on trucks all I have to look at is looking at the freeway and seeing trucks towing camping trailers and all I see is Chevy, Ford and Dodge trucks. Maybe Toyota and Nissan is trying to catch up with the big boys but what I see is they are going to have a lot of problems in doing so. So I would wait for them to get the kinks out for buying a truck from them right now.

Honda Trucks I haven’t heard much about them but I know Honda has good engineering.

Toyota trucks they are over priced

Nissan truck are to b*tt ugly
 
Super, you are so far off base it's incredible. Nissan's engines are not new, the Ranger is a piece of crap that hasn't been redesigned in decades and is being phased out. It will no longer be produced because Ford can't make money on it since companies like Nissan and Toyota do the midsize truck so much better than they do. Nissan's VQ engine is widely regarded as one of the best on the planet, and is no newcomer. As for trucks on a track, that's just stupid. You obviously don't use your truck for what it was made for.



Also, you are now comparing gas engine trucks with diesels. Get informed, make up your mind, and come back for some coherent discussion.
 
Tasty said:
Super, you are so far off base it's incredible. Nissan's engines are not new, the Ranger is a piece of crap that hasn't been redesigned in decades and is being phased out. It will no longer be produced because Ford can't make money on it since companies like Nissan and Toyota do the midsize truck so much better than they do. Nissan's VQ engine is widely regarded as one of the best on the planet, and is no newcomer. As for trucks on a track, that's just stupid. You obviously don't use your truck for what it was made for.



Also, you are now comparing gas engine trucks with diesels. Get informed, make up your mind, and come back for some coherent discussion.
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PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MONTH IS OR SHUT THE HECH UP! I would be glad to run pinks against what you just said???? You want to do it? what kind of truck do you have?
 
rjstaaf said:
I am on my 4th Ford not counting those my family had when I was a kid and I can't really agree that they aren't reliable as that hasn't been my experience. Of the Ford vehicles we had when I was a kid I recall a 1965 Ford Mustang Coupe and a 1967 Comet Wagon and then a 1971 Ford LTD Country Squire Wagon.



My first Ford was the LTD Wagon (it was also my first car, a hand me down from my dad). We bought it new and I traded it in with close to 150,000 miles for a 1981 Ford Courier pickup. Yes, the Courier is a Mazda but, it had the Ford 2.3l engine in it. The truck had 12 miles on it when I bought it and 110,000 when I sold it. I NEVER had a single issue with either other than a clutch that I wore out in Courier.



My third Ford is my Mustang. It currently has 76,000 miles and again the only problem I have ever had was a carbon fouled idle air control valve. I could have just cleaned it and re-installed it but, I decided to replace it. The car has been rock solid reliable.



We also have a 2004 Taurus. The Taurus currently has 35,000 miles and not a single problem out of it either.



I think it if you look at differences in how the US auto industry and the Japanese auto industry are run you will see how they have an advantage.



First and foremost is the Japanese auto industry is heavily subsidized by their government.



Second they do not have any kind of retirement or pensions. When you retire it is your family who supports you in Japan. Yes, they do offer retirement packages to their workers in the US but, consider that they have only had plants here for close to 30 years. Think about how many workers they are supporting vs how many the US auto industry is supporting.



Given those two advantages I have seen several articles that figure the Japanese have a $1500 advantage on each and every vehicle they build. It is not that we cannot build a vehicle comparible in quality to the Japanese, it is that we cannot build a vehicle comparible without cutting into profits on the already small margin.



Over the years it seems even our own government has done its own fair share of sabotage on the US auto industry. Toyota was able to establish their foothold here in the US at GM's expense...





I don't think I ever want to see a time when the US auto industry goes under and foreign vehicles are all we have to chose from. I am generally a conservative and don't really believe in protectionism but, if the US auto industry is going to survive something is going to have to be done. Do we really want to live in a society of consumers where we don't manufacture anything and have to rely on other countries for everything?? That is where we are headed...
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Let's not forget Chrysler whose got the styling down pat but the QC/reliability, in some cases, can be quite suspect. As it sits, the 300/Charger/Magnum/Challenger (Coming in 2008) (LX Platform) are among the most popular vehicles from Mopar currently. Why? Because Chrysler does take some risks and they pay off.



Ford and GM haven't done the same and it shows in sales. The only vehicles in Ford's stable that generates any type of buzz (Outside of the Ford GT) are the Mustang (As previously stated, the design elements are from a car that is over 40 years its senior) IIRC, the underpinnings are based on the DEW98 platform which also spawned the recent T-Bird, Lincoln LS, and are based on the Jaguar S Type. Then, there is the Escape/Mariner Hybrid. Other than that, there is little else in Ford's fleet that generates excitement. Crown Vic sales are strongest in taxicab and police fleets (They have tepid performance, even with a 3.55 axle ratio). Dodge is going to eat that sales advantage away with the Charger Police package with 5.7L Hemi (Rumors of the 6.1L Hemi making it to the police package have been swirling for some time). In fact, the test data from the MI State Police and LA County Sheriff's Department will prove that. A CVPI with a 3.55 axle ratio will get to 60 in almost 9 seconds. A 5.7L Charger will best that by at least 3-4 seconds easily. Top Speed? A CVPI only tops out in the 130s which is around the same top speed as a V6 Impala. Chargers can hit around 140-150+.



As for GM and the police market, I have talked to cops who STILL lament GM's decision to kill the Caprice 9C1 because they feel that GM hasn't made a decent full size cop car since 1996. Many of them refer to the Impala 9C1 as the "Wimpala." In addition, GM is slowly starting to come around with the introduction of the Solstice/Sky as well as the return of the Camaro circa 2008.



In addition, Lincoln Town Car sales are slower than molasses. Taurus sales are rental fleet mostly. Navigator sales are slow and are probably not going to get better since the '07 Escalade has hit the streets.



Both GM and Ford really need to change their focus if they want to remain competitive against the Japanese.
 
Super said:
PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MONTH IS OR SHUT THE HECH UP! I would be glad to run pinks against what you just said???? You want to do it? what kind of truck do you have?
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Please don't bring Autopia down to the level of a ricer forum... :(
 
Seriously. I'm done with that guy. He's just plain wrong, and wants to take stock trucks to the quarter mile...:lol
 
Super said:
PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MONTH IS OR SHUT THE HECH UP! I would be glad to run pinks against what you just said???? You want to do it? what kind of truck do you have?
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Super: Let's not get into "magazine racing" or challenges for racing in general. This is not the forum for that type of discussion. Consider this the first and only warning.
 
Whoa! Just hold on a minute, there. I was just stating the facts just like others was doing so lets be fare and not be just one sided.
 
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