Forced into being a pro? Thoughts?

[Less]

XRL - no offense, but if I were your GM, I would fire your a$$ so quickly you wouldn't know what to do with yourself.



Going to your GM and telling him that he's got it all wrong, and has no idea what he's doing, and that he doesn't pay you enough to do the job he asks you to do is a sure way to get one the guy's sh-tlist.



Whether or not you think it's a good idea or not is irrelevant. It also doesn't matter if you think that the wash/dry/armor-all treatment is even viable as a service. And just let the insurance, water regulations, material costs, etc. be Best Buy's problem. The only relevant fact here is that he's the boss, and you're the employee. You get paid to do what he tells you to do and that's it. If you don't like it, pack up and go work somewhere else.



From your perspective, you're the only one who knows anything about detailing. From his perspective, a monkey could wash a car and wipe some armor-all on the dash. So your so-called 'skills' are mostly irrelevant. If you think otherwise, then it's up to YOU to convince him of that. Poking holes in his business plan is not really going to get his attention in a positive way.



Instead, maybe you should tell him about your detailing knowledge and experience in a more constructive way. Volunteer to lead the group that implements this. Offer to work some extra hours to train people. Ask to help with the purchasing of materials and supplies. If you do all of those things, THEN you'll have a pretty strong case to go up to the guy and ask for an extra buck or two per hour. Or maybe you'll get a promotion of some sort.



Maybe you should start looking at this Best Buy gig as something more than a "part time job while you're in school". Even if you don't get a raise or a promotion out of it, it's still an opportunity to learn and be a leader. That kind of stuff is priceless when you graduate and is HUGE on your resume.



Believe me, a degree is not a free-ticket to a good job. You're going to graduate with nothing but a fancy piece of paper and virtually no real-world experience. You're going to have to rely on experiences like this, and quality professional references in order to land a good job.



It sounds to me like you're really blowing a huge opportunity here.

 

[Envious Eric]

well put LESS

 

[unclejud49348]

This kinda sounds like my dream job. Working at BB AND doing detailing, sounds like fun. I know of 2 BB stores here in MI that also offer detailing, but I don't know how much business they get.



Less brings up a few great points. You could turn this into an opportunity into something good for you and you should really try to approach it that way. Although when I think detailing I don't think Best Buy, you might be able to be the one that makes that connection for people in your area.



Good luck, and keep us updated on what happens.

 

[XRL]

XRL - no offense, but if I were your GM, I would fire your a$$ so quickly you wouldn't know what to do with yourself.



Going to your GM and telling him that he's got it all wrong, and has no idea what he's doing, and that he doesn't pay you enough to do the job he asks you to do is a sure way to get one the guy's sh-tlist.



Whether or not you think it's a good idea or not is irrelevant. It also doesn't matter if you think that the wash/dry/armor-all treatment is even viable as a service. And just let the insurance, water regulations, material costs, etc. be Best Buy's problem. The only relevant fact here is that he's the boss, and you're the employee. You get paid to do what he tells you to do and that's it. If you don't like it, pack up and go work somewhere else.



From your perspective, you're the only one who knows anything about detailing. From his perspective, a monkey could wash a car and wipe some armor-all on the dash. So your so-called 'skills' are mostly irrelevant. If you think otherwise, then it's up to YOU to convince him of that. Poking holes in his business plan is not really going to get his attention in a positive way.



Instead, maybe you should tell him about your detailing knowledge and experience in a more constructive way. Volunteer to lead the group that implements this. Offer to work some extra hours to train people. Ask to help with the purchasing of materials and supplies. If you do all of those things, THEN you'll have a pretty strong case to go up to the guy and ask for an extra buck or two per hour. Or maybe you'll get a promotion of some sort.



Maybe you should start looking at this Best Buy gig as something more than a "part time job while you're in school". Even if you don't get a raise or a promotion out of it, it's still an opportunity to learn and be a leader. That kind of stuff is priceless when you graduate and is HUGE on your resume.



Believe me, a degree is not a free-ticket to a good job. You're going to graduate with nothing but a fancy piece of paper and virtually no real-world experience. You're going to have to rely on experiences like this, and quality professional references in order to land a good job.



It sounds to me like you're really blowing a huge opportunity here.

That's not entirely true. They hired me at this store because I know what I'm doing. They had gone through a few guys that didn't know what they were doing and were breaking cars (and costing them a lot of money & lost sales & customer confidence).



In any case, the GM thinks it might work, but he doesn't know much about the install bay or how it operates, which is why he came to us installers to ask us what we thought about it.



It's not being looked at as a large scale thing. It's just our store.



In any case, what would you guys recommend for a single step liquid wax to be used on basic wash & waxes? We will have two tiers above it, and this is supposed to be the super quick one for volume applications. I was thinking either Meg's #21 or something easily available locally like Black Magic Liquid Wax. Tier 2 will be Mother's FX products. Tier 3 will be Pinnacle Souveran for wax and interior, and wheel wax for the wheels and tires.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

As I said in the chat box, tiering it out in that manner is just nuts...you're going to use Souveran at Best Buy??



Go with something like D151 or Poli-Seal for the one-step (Tier 1), and maybe M205 or #80 followed by #26 liquid or #21 (because you can get those in bulk) for Tier 2. I'd forget Tier 3, but if you must, I'd just make it a 2-step polish and finish with the same LSP as Tier 2, or add trim dressing or interior dressing or something else for Tier 3.



IMO using boutique products like Souveran is just not the right thing for this application, customers (at least in this situation) don't know from products they just know from shine, you need bulk products that are cheap. Besides, that jar of Souveran is going to walk when you turn your back when the other guys find out it's worth $80.

 

[MichaelM]

In any case, what would you guys recommend for a single step liquid wax to be used on basic wash & waxes? We will have two tiers above it, and this is supposed to be the super quick one for volume applications. I was thinking either Meg's #21 or something easily available locally like Black Magic Liquid Wax. Tier 2 will be Mother's FX products. Tier 3 will be Pinnacle Souveran for wax and interior, and wheel wax for the wheels and tires.

For basic wash & waxes you are better off getting something from a local bulk chemical distributor that is a true one-step product with some cut, some fill and some protection. The cars will look shinier and the customers will be happier.



Using any true sealant, especially something as expensive as Pinnacle, is a waste if you aren't going to do correction.

 

[Less]

That's not entirely true. They hired me at this store because I know what I'm doing. They had gone through a few guys that didn't know what they were doing and were breaking cars (and costing them a lot of money & lost sales & customer confidence).

Seriously? If they really hired YOU, specifically, because everyone else screwed it up, don't you think you're doing yourself a disservice by not commanding a higher wage? I'm not trying to discredit you or anything, but I find it hard to believe that they couldn't replace you in a bout three seconds if they wanted to.

In any case, the GM thinks it might work, but he doesn't know much about the install bay or how it operates, which is why he came to us installers to ask us what we thought about it.

Which is your queue to say "That's a great idea boss! We should be able to implement that without any trouble at all. I actually detail part time and I would be happy to lead this project and help train everybody else!"



Definitely don't do or say any of the following:



1. I'm the only one who knows anything at all about detailing in our install bay

2. The GM has no idea what he's getting into,

3. he has no idea the actual skill or work that goes into a proper detail

4. I'm not really feeling this idea

5. they have no idea what they're getting in to, and that frankly they don't pay me enough

6. they have no idea of the intricacies involved with detailing

7. they were going to buy all the stuff to start up at discount auto parts before i told them that was stupid

8. the idea will fail miserably without some guidance

9. most likely they won't do a damn thing and will just be fly by night

10. his pricing structure wasn't going to be realistic to get anyone halfway qualified.

11. I should advise them to get products i want, like a FLEX and stuff, then once it fails and they've given up I can get it all on the cheap or free

12. consult with some of the other managers that I trust and know are "on my side"

It's not being looked at as a large scale thing.

So stop looking at it like it's a 'large scale thing'. Souveran??? Are you serious? Whoever it was that said we could just "wash, dry, vaccuum, spray some wax and armor all on a car and be good". was absolutely right. That's all you need to do. Believe me, if someone cares enough about their car to know what proper detailing is, then they aren't going to let you touch their car anyway. To them, you're alleged 'detailing skill' is meaningless. For all they know, you're just some college punk hack.



You're market is going to be the folks that black03mach mentioned. the people who say "hey my car hasn't been cleaned in a while, this is convenient, and what's another $50 on my best buy card". Regardless of what kind of hack-job you do, it's going to be a 100% improvement on these customers' cars.

In any case, what would you guys recommend for a single step liquid wax to be used on basic wash & waxes? We will have two tiers above it, and this is supposed to be the super quick one for volume applications. I was thinking either Meg's #21 or something easily available locally like Black Magic Liquid Wax. Tier 2 will be Mother's FX products. Tier 3 will be Pinnacle Souveran for wax and interior, and wheel wax for the wheels and tires.

Go to autozone and get:

two buckets,

two mitts,

some drying towels,

wash soap,

a gallon of APC

Some rubber/trim dressing

Spray Wax

A sh-tload of the cheapest MF towels you can find

A shop vac

and some Febreeze



I doubt very much anyone will come to Best Buy for a service that can't be provided by just those products there.

 

[David Fermani]

Detailing @ Best Buy? :soscared: Especially if it's at the W. Palm store. Are they even physically set up to do detailing at a legal capacity?

 

[XRL]

I thought the tier idea is a good one for two reasons. Firstly, at my bay we work on a HUGE variety of cars. We will have beat up old truck in at 10, followed by an average newer SUV followed by a 70k Lexus or Mercedes. They're all completely different customers. As such, they will want completely different levels or service. That and the other stores that had tried this before also run a tiered service.



I actually think the tiered service would be easier to implement at Best Buy because of the way they set everything up. They're all about "lifestyle questions" and having different products for different segments and lifestyles and such. All of Best Buy's products and services are offered in a tiered fashion, because they know that the college kid with little money isn't going to want to spend a large amount of money on something, but a businessman with a career and extra cash will, and will want more done than the college kid. The fact that it fits the tiering structure BBY has in place already just gives it a chance at succeeding large scale (or at least fitting into corporate's culture enough to make them like the idea and possibly want to retain it).



Maybe Souveran is excessive, but part of the idea is that there has no be a perceived value in the higher end tiers. Believe me, it's really hard to tell the difference between a $1000 TV and a TV that costs 2-3x as much in the same size. So to sell those products, Best Buy has to make a value proposition about them, and many times the best way to do that is just with a higher profile brand image. People do buy the Sony TV for 30% more than the Toshiba or whatever next to it simply because of its image. So having something that sounds better and more exotic than a normal wax (especially something that they haven't seen in an auto parts store) could be that value proposition, along with all the other talk of warmth and depth, etc.



Again, nobody knows how this stuff will work out. I didn't think that people would trust Best Buy to work on $100k cars routinely, but they do. I never thought they would trust our HT guys to install TVs on the wall and run speaker wire inside the walls and stuff on houses that cost over a million dollars, but they do. So my own thoughts on what kinds of cars we would work on and if people would actually do it are largely useless. Plus it doesn't hurt that we're in a pretty large (and expensive) plaza, it's not entire unreasonable to think that even if the guy with the 612 Scaglietti that was parked out in front of our bay the other day won't want us to detail his car, that the numberous Porsche Cayenne won't be willing to pay for a decent detail while they shop at our store and the other stores nearby, and maybe get something to eat.

 

[XRL]

Detailing @ Best Buy? :soscared: Especially if it's at the W. Palm store. Are they even physically set up to do detailing at a legal capacity?

Not the one on Palm Beach Lakes, the one on PGA. Physically set up? Both stores have 2 install bays if that's what you mean. Our lighting isn't exactly the best for picking up every little swirl, but we can always get free standing halogens and whatnot. As I see it, we can wash the cars outside, then pull them into the bay for the rest.

 

[David Fermani]

Washing outside might fly at a low key detail shop or some Mobile Joe, but you're looking for trouble if you think Best Buy won't get fined by the EPA for washing outside. Big names bring big exposure. I'd check into it.

 

[Less]

You don't even know if you can do enough business to turn a profit or even a reasonable ROI with a ONE tier offering. Why would you start with two or more?



You're thinking WAY too big picture here I think. Being around Autopia really forces you to think in terms of proper procedure, perfection, 'right tools for the job' etc. You get lulled into this sense that there is an absolute, undeniable, "right way" to do things. You expect everyone to be as discriminating and perfectionist as you are about cars. I can't count how many times I've seen my kid brother wash his truck with a cheap sponge and a crappy brush. Whenever I offer a suggestion or criticism he comes back with "dude, it's just a car. I just want it clean". That's your customer. Not guys like us. Guys like us tell the dealership specifically to NOT wash the car, even if it's a FREE service.



Your talk of fitting a tiered structure into Best Buy's established culture so it can achieve long-term, large scale success is premature. You need to stop thinking of this as a "value" service and more as a "convenience" service. You do car audio installs because people see it as a convenience. That convenience is marketed in a way that adds margin for best buy. It's the textbook definition of 'horizontal integration'.



I think you're projecting your perception of Best Buy's quality onto the population at large. Why wouldn't someone trust Best Buy to install a car stereo on a $100K car? Why wouldn't someone trust Best Buy to come to their house and wire a home theatre system? They sell the products, they know how everything works, and they have insurance if they screw up. Why do you insist that people perceive best buy's service as inferior just because it's a large-scale retail operation?



The reality is, these kind of add-on/convenience services are huge cash cows for any company. As we discussed in another thread, Best Buy has no problem breaking even, or even losing money on a laptop when they know that they can make 500% profit selling you a carrying case and extra battery on your way out the door.



Try thinking of this detailing gig in those terms. Don't think of it as some kind of high-end, paint correction studio. Think of it as "What can I do to squeeze another $65 out of each radio install?" As long as people see a significant improvement in their car's appearance, in a reasonable amount of time, the service will sell itself. If you try to make it more than that, you're going to be pretty disappointed.

 

[Envious Eric]

setup a wash mat like BOB from auto concierge outside

ONR the cars

use a spray wax like optimum car wax

for a liquid wax, you can use megs liquid wax from the detailer line





K.I.S.S. - offer 3 packages at most and let them choose:

wax

full interior

one step



wash and wax

wash and one step

wash, full interior, wax

wash, full interior, one step



forget about all the wheel polishing and engine cleaning, multistep compounding, etc. Keep the detailing to a PC, no rotary in the wrong hands = no screw ups!

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Shoot, if you are going to ONR, you don't even need the mat. Keeps the cars inside where there's no stormdrains for the EPA to worry about.

 

[DeanMachine]

You don't even know if you can do enough business to turn a profit or even a reasonable ROI with a ONE tier offering. Why would you start with two or more?



You're thinking WAY too big picture here I think. Being around Autopia really forces you to think in terms of proper procedure, perfection, 'right tools for the job' etc. You get lulled into this sense that there is an absolute, undeniable, "right way" to do things. You expect everyone to be as discriminating and perfectionist as you are about cars. I can't count how many times I've seen my kid brother wash his truck with a cheap sponge and a crappy brush. Whenever I offer a suggestion or criticism he comes back with "dude, it's just a car. I just want it clean". That's your customer. Not guys like us. Guys like us tell the dealership specifically to NOT wash the car, even if it's a FREE service.



Your talk of fitting a tiered structure into Best Buy's established culture so it can achieve long-term, large scale success is premature. You need to stop thinking of this as a "value" service and more as a "convenience" service. You do car audio installs because people see it as a convenience. That convenience is marketed in a way that adds margin for best buy. It's the textbook definition of 'horizontal integration'.



I think you're projecting your perception of Best Buy's quality onto the population at large. Why wouldn't someone trust Best Buy to install a car stereo on a $100K car? Why wouldn't someone trust Best Buy to come to their house and wire a home theatre system? They sell the products, they know how everything works, and they have insurance if they screw up. Why do you insist that people perceive best buy's service as inferior just because it's a large-scale retail operation?



The reality is, these kind of add-on/convenience services are huge cash cows for any company. As we discussed in another thread, Best Buy has no problem breaking even, or even losing money on a laptop when they know that they can make 500% profit selling you a carrying case and extra battery on your way out the door.



Try thinking of this detailing gig in those terms. Don't think of it as some kind of high-end, paint correction studio. Think of it as "What can I do to squeeze another $65 out of each radio install?" As long as people see a significant improvement in their car's appearance, in a reasonable amount of time, the service will sell itself. If you try to make it more than that, you're going to be pretty disappointed.

Exactly!

setup a wash mat like BOB from auto concierge outside

ONR the cars

use a spray wax like optimum car wax

for a liquid wax, you can use megs liquid wax from the detailer line





K.I.S.S. - offer 3 packages at most and let them choose:

wax

full interior

one step



wash and wax

wash and one step

wash, full interior, wax

wash, full interior, one step



forget about all the wheel polishing and engine cleaning, multistep compounding, etc. Keep the detailing to a PC, no rotary in the wrong hands = no screw ups!

Done deal! K.I.S.S.

 

[XRL]

setup a wash mat like BOB from auto concierge outside

ONR the cars

use a spray wax like optimum car wax

for a liquid wax, you can use megs liquid wax from the detailer line





K.I.S.S. - offer 3 packages at most and let them choose:

wax

full interior

one step



wash and wax

wash and one step

wash, full interior, wax

wash, full interior, one step



forget about all the wheel polishing and engine cleaning, multistep compounding, etc. Keep the detailing to a PC, no rotary in the wrong hands = no screw ups!

You guys are right. Damn autopian standards, lol. It makes it hard to settle for anything less than perfection. The first thing I thought of when they brought this up was just offering it as a fast ONR wash that was "eco friendly". I mean hell, people around here love that green/organic stuff, that's why we have a huge 2 story Greenwise Publix across the parking lot from us.



I think that the structure above there could work very well. We could use Optimum wax since its all spray, or do you think it would be better to use opti seal? From what I've read, both are safe to use on all kinda of wheels and trim without staining them, but can you apply opti-seal via a DA? OS has no fillers, so maybe OS would be best to skip it. Then we just need some nice MF towels, some cheaper ones for interior work & interior optimum products, some optimum tire stuff, and a decent shop vac (apparently ours sucks - no pun intended). And we would be well under budget with all the stuff we would need.



Can you wash a car with ONR via a DA?



EDIT: we also are probably going to offer headlight restoration. Charge $50-75 to clean up some headlights, apparently the dealership charges like 150 to do it. But we'll see.

 

[Envious Eric]

ONR on a DA???? what???????????????



you are not going to be charging top dollar or be known for "detailing"...kick the opti-seal out and stick with whats simpler and cheaper - OCW, its a durable spray wax that looks good!



I really think you need to grasp the concept that you are not going to be doing autopian standard detailing out of best buy. You are looking for volume type products WITH fillers, IMO.



If I were you, I would talk to the client and if that is what they want, then try to work it out that you do it at your house on the side like you detail now...just make sure your GM knows both angles and how it would benefit both the client and BB to keep the simple stuff in house, and the extensive stuff outsourced (to you)!

 

[Maknmony]

XRL - no offense, but if I were your GM, I would fire your a$$ so quickly you wouldn't know what to do with yourself.



Going to your GM and telling him that he's got it all wrong, and has no idea what he's doing, and that he doesn't pay you enough to do the job he asks you to do is a sure way to get one the guy's sh-tlist.



Whether or not you think it's a good idea or not is irrelevant. It also doesn't matter if you think that the wash/dry/armor-all treatment is even viable as a service. And just let the insurance, water regulations, material costs, etc. be Best Buy's problem. The only relevant fact here is that he's the boss, and you're the employee. You get paid to do what he tells you to do and that's it. If you don't like it, pack up and go work somewhere else.



From your perspective, you're the only one who knows anything about detailing. From his perspective, a monkey could wash a car and wipe some armor-all on the dash. So your so-called 'skills' are mostly irrelevant. If you think otherwise, then it's up to YOU to convince him of that. Poking holes in his business plan is not really going to get his attention in a positive way.



Instead, maybe you should tell him about your detailing knowledge and experience in a more constructive way. Volunteer to lead the group that implements this. Offer to work some extra hours to train people. Ask to help with the purchasing of materials and supplies. If you do all of those things, THEN you'll have a pretty strong case to go up to the guy and ask for an extra buck or two per hour. Or maybe you'll get a promotion of some sort.



Maybe you should start looking at this Best Buy gig as something more than a "part time job while you're in school". Even if you don't get a raise or a promotion out of it, it's still an opportunity to learn and be a leader. That kind of stuff is priceless when you graduate and is HUGE on your resume.



Believe me, a degree is not a free-ticket to a good job. You're going to graduate with nothing but a fancy piece of paper and virtually no real-world experience. You're going to have to rely on experiences like this, and quality professional references in order to land a good job.



It sounds to me like you're really blowing a huge opportunity here.

I'm sorry to say this, there is NO huge opportunity here. XLR i wouldn't say anything about your detailing skills, stick to your schooling and in the meantime do the installs. Find out first what a Best Buy Detail consists of. Then if it is something that you have interest in, go for it. The more these big companies can use you for they will, without your compensation. Act like you know nothing and let the GM look like an *** when this idea of his doesn't work.

 

[Less]

I think that the structure above there could work very well. We could use Optimum wax since its all spray, or do you think it would be better to use opti seal? From what I've read, both are safe to use on all kinda of wheels and trim without staining them, but can you apply opti-seal via a DA? OS has no fillers, so maybe OS would be best to skip it. Then we just need some nice MF towels, some cheaper ones for interior work & interior optimum products, some optimum tire stuff, and a decent shop vac (apparently ours sucks - no pun intended). And we would be well under budget with all the stuff we would need.

I'm glad to see you're coming around, but I STILL think you're over-killing this. I don't know what the stores near you carry, but I've never seen an Optimum product in a retail location. I HIGHLY recommend that you stick with products that are readily available within a 1/2 mile radius of where you will be working. If you run out of something, you'll want to be able to replace it within 10 minutes. You're just not going to be doing enough cars to make any kind of bulk purchase really worth it, at least at first.



Remember, your clients are not nearly as discriminating about car care as you are. They don't care what products you use. Believe me you would MUCH rather spend $100 for a cheap setup in case the idea doesn't take off. Imagine these two conversations and tell me which one you would rather have.



1) Hey boss, we've already used up most of this car wash stuff. We need to buy more and I know some great suppliers where we can buy some stuff in bulk and save some money.



or



2) Hey boss, no one's buying the car wash service and we're stuck with $500 worth of chemicals. Ummm....can I have 'em so I can start my own detailing work on the side?

Can you wash a car with ONR via a DA?

Is that a serious question? Why would you wash with a DA? Why would you put a machine on a dirty car to begin with? I would forget the machine altogether. Get the word "detailing" out of your head and start thinking of yourselves as a "car wash". Remember, the goal is to squeeze just a little extra money out of each customer. I doubt very much you'll find enough willing buyers at a price point that makes machine polishing worthwhile.

EDIT: we also are probably going to offer headlight restoration. Charge $50-75 to clean up some headlights, apparently the dealership charges like 150 to do it. But we'll see.

*sigh*



You're selling a convenience as a last minute, unintended, impulse buy. Upsells beyond that are probably going to rub your customers the wrong way. Go back to the shopping list I gave you a few posts earlier. If someone is looking for a service that can't be provided by those products, they probably won't go looking for it at an electronics store.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Yeah...ONR/OCW for your cheap service, ONR/Poli-Seal/OCW for your better. Or Meg's with the D151. Headlight thing is probably a good little money-maker, dedicate a drill or a rotary with a small BP.