Flyer Distribution Times

toyotaguy said:
I have about a .1% response rate off the last 5000 I handed out, and received about 600 in business from it...worth it? time wise - no, money wise - yes as it paid for itself



I do not have the capital for direct mail marketing with something like VALPAK...I was quoted 1900+ for 6 distributions every other month for the entire year....I get it at my place, and there are like 4 cleaning ads, which negates the competition theory as yours being the only one of its kind in the envelope (they state only one ad from each industry will be included...)



but walking around you get to talk to some people, get some exercise, and get outdoors instead of being cooped up inside a house/garage all day....I like it! throw on some headphones and walk around...I will be doing it again this coming month, and then again in June
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Why not apply for a business line of credit? I got one for $50,000, although I only use it when absolutely necessary. The only criteria, other than your credit score, was to be in business for 3 years. That simply means you have a business license.



I was resistant to this type of marketing for a over two years for the very same reasons; money. I just got to the point where I needed to increase my business. Turns out I detailed a car for the owner of the local United Marketing franchise. They are ValPaks closest competitor. He explained it to me in a very honest way and was very confident it would work for me. Well, he was correct and it has definitely helped business. BTW, what what volume did they quote you for and was it with a monthly distribution?
 
Like I mentioned before, my wife and I also have a cleaning business. Additionally, I perform inspections on commercial properties for lenders. So, the mobile detailing business I have is a part-time gig. Here the weather just doesn't cooperate enough to do it on a mobile basis full-time. There are too many dead months. Even when the weather isn't bad if people feel it may get that way, they are reluctant to do anything. Detailing can be a hard sell in my area.



I learned the hard way a few years back not to put all of my eggs in one basket. I have diversified my businesses as much as I can, so none are truly full-time, though cleaning occupies most of it. I've also started a part-time marketing and promotional business, and soon will be an authorized dealer of promotional items (pens, hats, custom merchandise) through Kaiser & Blair. So, I do have time here and there, depending on how inspections and details hit, and what the weather allows. I might as well get out and get some exercise.



I also don't take loans out on my businesses. Never have, don't plan to. I hate debt, and couldn't bare to spend it on advertising for a part-time business anyway.
 
mcc said:
Like I mentioned before, my wife and I also have a cleaning business. Additionally, I perform inspections on commercial properties for lenders. So, the mobile detailing business I have is a part-time gig. Here the weather just doesn't cooperate enough to do it on a mobile basis full-time. There are too many dead months. Even when the weather isn't bad if people feel it may get that way, they are reluctant to do anything. Detailing can be a hard sell in my area.



I learned the hard way a few years back not to put all of my eggs in one basket. I have diversified my businesses as much as I can, so none are truly full-time, though cleaning occupies most of it. I've also started a part-time marketing and promotional business, and soon will be an authorized dealer of promotional items (pens, hats, custom merchandise) through Kaiser & Blair. So, I do have time here and there, depending on how inspections and details hit, and what the weather allows. I might as well get out and get some exercise.



I also don't take loans out on my businesses. Never have, don't plan to. I hate debt, and couldn't bare to spend it on advertising for a part-time business anyway.
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Sounds as if you are all set then:)
 
mcc said:
Like I mentioned before, my wife and I also have a cleaning business. Additionally, I perform inspections on commercial properties for lenders. So, the mobile detailing business I have is a part-time gig. Here the weather just doesn't cooperate enough to do it on a mobile basis full-time. There are too many dead months. Even when the weather isn't bad if people feel it may get that way, they are reluctant to do anything. Detailing can be a hard sell in my area.



I learned the hard way a few years back not to put all of my eggs in one basket. I have diversified my businesses as much as I can, so none are truly full-time, though cleaning occupies most of it. I've also started a part-time marketing and promotional business, and soon will be an authorized dealer of promotional items (pens, hats, custom merchandise) through Kaiser & Blair. So, I do have time here and there, depending on how inspections and details hit, and what the weather allows. I might as well get out and get some exercise.



I also don't take loans out on my businesses. Never have, don't plan to. I hate debt, and couldn't bare to spend it on advertising for a part-time business anyway.
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You run three different companies, and have time to walk around passing out flyers? You must have excellent time management abilities. I would also imagine that direct mail would be an important part of your marketing company, as that is what so many reputable companies use. Not too often you see reputable companies walking around passing out fliers door to door. Do not get me wrong, I used to do just that, but it took up a lot of my time, and the response was minimal. As for borrowing money, you will need to eventually, especially if you want to grow your businesses. As always, do what works for you. I brought up direct mail because it works for me, and I imagine would work for you too. Good luck with everything.
 
Yes, I do have time, though not a lot of it right now as things are picking up. However, the cleaning is regular, but the detailing and inspection work comes and goes. My time management skills are okay, nothing to brag about, but I do work hard and none of my businesses are overwhelmingly huge. My wife and I own and operate all of them by ourselves. In the past, we've tried hiring people, but they just don't hold up the quality work that we've built our cleaning business on, so they don't last. Customers ask for them not to come back. So, we keep things manageable, though diversifying our ventures.



Yeah, I know that to really grow the businesses we would need to take out a loan eventually. That is unless we work hard and save our money over time so as to avoid the need for a loan, which is our likely course. We have a roof over our head, varied work that makes each day interesting, and a good relationship with each other. My wife and I are happy, and we aren't looking to rock the boat too much. We will make sure we are in a good financial postition to grow a business before we jump into anything, even a borrowed money situation.



I really do appreciate all the advice on this thread. Thanks guys!
 
brwill2005 said:
Why not apply for a business line of credit? I got one for $50,000, although I only use it when absolutely necessary. The only criteria, other than your credit score, was to be in business for 3 years. That simply means you have a business license.



I was resistant to this type of marketing for a over two years for the very same reasons; money. I just got to the point where I needed to increase my business. Turns out I detailed a car for the owner of the local United Marketing franchise. They are ValPaks closest competitor. He explained it to me in a very honest way and was very confident it would work for me. Well, he was correct and it has definitely helped business. BTW, what what volume did they quote you for and was it with a monthly distribution?
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honestly, I have at least another year to save before I try and go at this detailing thing as my sole source of income...I want to have a lot put away just in case...plus buy a house/condo sooner than later...



but I was offered a bi monthly distribution and they designed the ad...the sales guy didnt really sell me on the effectiveness...maybe one day someone else will be able to because I fell for the yellow pages ad...what a waste of money its been for me...started in january...NOT A SINGLE CALL YET!!! and i have an ad a little bigger than a 1/4 page...
 
toyotaguy said:
honestly, I have at least another year to save before I try and go at this detailing thing as my sole source of income...I want to have a lot put away just in case...plus buy a house/condo sooner than later...



but I was offered a bi monthly distribution and they designed the ad...the sales guy didnt really sell me on the effectiveness...maybe one day someone else will be able to because I fell for the yellow pages ad...what a waste of money its been for me...started in january...NOT A SINGLE CALL YET!!! and i have an ad a little bigger than a 1/4 page...
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Yea, yellow page ads can be hit or miss. I have had better luck with the smaller community phone books, which target small cities. The county wide book I have not had much luck with. The owner of the direct mail company I used explained it nicely; he said people go to the phone book when they are ready to buy a particular service. Direct mail lets them know a service exists. Anyways, sounds like you have your priorities in order.
 
Does anyone here actually put advertisements on other people's cars? I'd like to think detailers know best of all how etiquette works when it comes to touching someone else's car uninvited.
 
Picus said:
Does anyone here actually put advertisements on other people's cars? I'd like to think detailers know best of all how etiquette works when it comes to touching someone else's car uninvited.
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Yea, I did when I first started full time nearly three years ago. I was pretty desperate for business so I went to the mall parking lot, as well as a local country club. I actually got some business out of it and a contract with the country club. I did, however, get chased out of the mall parking lot by security, and some nasty calls from store managers and people un-happy with getting a flier on their car. Oh well, it was a risk that paid off in the long run. I would not do it again though.
 
Flyer's on the car tick me off and are instantly discarded (touch my car and you might as well touch my wife or children). Flyer's in the door at home tick me off and are instantly discarded (little known trick of a house thief is to leave a flyer on the door and see if it disappears, if it does, some one is home...). Yellow pages, have thrown them away for years and do not use them. Everyone I have hired is from referals, forums such as these or a referal service such as Angie's List. I won't even have a store front work on my car without looking into them.



What a pro charges to do a correction the masses do not understand. Even if they where made to understand, many would still not do it. It is a finite market for correction, a larger market for a thorough detail (less correction) and a larger yet market for a good basic wash and wax. Still, those three make up the minority of the car owning public as they are DIY'ing or running through the whirl and swirl. Most look at it like, looks great today, rains tomorrow.



Fortuniately, there are some consumers that 'get it'. Being one, I still often DIY but learn from those more experienced such as many here. Some times I pay to have some on do it for me but that is more of a curiosity or a convenience type situation.



Bottom line is what a pro is looking for is a small market segment. Identify who they are in your community and how to get to them!



Just a customers $0.02
 
rdorman said:
Flyer's on the car tick me off and are instantly discarded (touch my car and you might as well touch my wife or children). Flyer's in the door at home tick me off and are instantly discarded (little known trick of a house thief is to leave a flyer on the door and see if it disappears, if it does, some one is home...). Yellow pages, have thrown them away for years and do not use them. Everyone I have hired is from referals, forums such as these or a referal service such as Angie's List. I won't even have a store front work on my car without looking into them.



Just a customers $0.02
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Not trying to be an *** here, but you're a very difficult "customer", and you certainly don't reflect the majority of the population out there. You won't hire ANYONE unless you've been personally referred. You won't take your vehicle to a single shop for any type of service without doing some decent background searches on them. I'm not saying this wrong or is a bad practice, but let's be honest, 99% of the population doesn't do this. In a lot of cases, it isn't even necessary. But, the fact is, flyers left on cars or hung on doorknobs DO work, and they WILL get you customers. At what return rate is a different question, but they will still bring customers in.
 
WAS said:
Not trying to be an *** here, but you're a very difficult "customer", and you certainly don't reflect the majority of the population out there. You won't hire ANYONE unless you've been personally referred. You won't take your vehicle to a single shop for any type of service without doing some decent background searches on them. I'm not saying this wrong or is a bad practice, but let's be honest, 99% of the population doesn't do this. In a lot of cases, it isn't even necessary. But, the fact is, flyers left on cars or hung on doorknobs DO work, and they WILL get you customers. At what return rate is a different question, but they will still bring customers in.
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No offense taken. I am a demanding customer and pay for what I expect. If demanding = difficult then so be it. People on this forum have done work for me, ask them. Once I find a service that will live up to their word, and my expectations, I will go out of my way to refer them and even introduce them to unknown business opportunities with no gain to myself aside from a good business relationship.



WAY off on the 99% unless you think that only 1% looks for referrals, does research and compares services. I am sure the BBB, Consumer Reports/Research, JD Powers, Angie's List, makers of business cards, etc will find that statistic disheartening.



I never said that flyer's do not work, I was speaking for myself, I pitch them with out so much as glance. Kind of the marketing equivalent to standing on the freeway exit looking for a handout in my book. Difference is, I always give those folks a handout.



I am, and always have been, in service related businesses. And, I always try to exceed the customers expectations. When it comes to business, only those that are unwilling to strive for excellence have ever labeled me 'difficult'.
 
rdorman said:
No offense taken. I am a demanding customer and pay for what I expect. If demanding = difficult then so be it. People on this forum have done work for me, ask them. Once I find a service that will live up to their word, and my expectations, I will go out of my way to refer them and even introduce them to unknown business opportunities with no gain to myself aside from a good business relationship.



WAY off on the 99% unless you think that only 1% looks for referrals, does research and compares services. I am sure the BBB, Consumer Reports/Research, JD Powers, Angie's List, makers of business cards, etc will find that statistic disheartening.



I never said that flyer's do not work, I was speaking for myself, I pitch them with out so much as glance. Kind of the marketing equivalent to standing on the freeway exit looking for a handout in my book. Difference is, I always give those folks a handout.



I am, and always have been, in service related businesses. And, I always try to exceed the customers expectations. When it comes to business, only those that are unwilling to strive for excellence have ever labeled me 'difficult'.
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Demanding is one thing. Expecting more than what you pay for is something completely different. Someone who expects a 4 day concours detail for $200 is demanding, yet also unreasonable.



I didn't say that 1% of the population uses the BBB or other such type services. I said that 99% of the population does not go to the extent that you do (based on what you've said). If someone needs an oil change on their car, they aren't going to spend 3 hours looking up reviews on their nearest Mr. Lube along with asking every single one of their friends on their opinions, they're simply going to go there, get the oil change, and leave. Likewise, if someone's car needs $2000 in repairs at their dealership (me for example, if my Dodge truck needed work at my local Dodge dealership where I bought it), they don't BBB scan either. A VERY small percentage of the population would go to that extent of background investigation. Realistically, most people just don't have the time.



Out of sheer curiosity, why would you give a random person a handout of money, yet completely ignore advertising ?



I know you speak for yourself, but in the bigger picture, flyers work fairly well. I'm just making sure that the point gets across that flyers do work, and you're representing the minority of customers. And again, some customers just have unreal expectations. There are some customers you just can't please, no matter how much you "strive for excellence".
 
WAS said:
Demanding is one thing. Expecting more than what you pay for is something completely different. Someone who expects a 4 day concours detail for $200 is demanding, yet also unreasonable.
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Completely agree. The only fool in that scenerio is the one getting $200! As you may recall, I pay for my expectations to be met. No handouts required from the business. Hire the best and pay the rate.



WAS said:
I didn't say that 1% of the population uses the BBB or other such type services. I said that 99% of the population does not go to the extent that you do (based on what you've said). If someone needs an oil change on their car, they aren't going to spend 3 hours looking up reviews on their nearest Mr. Lube along with asking every single one of their friends on their opinions, they're simply going to go there, get the oil change, and leave. Likewise, if someone's car needs $2000 in repairs at their dealership (me for example, if my Dodge truck needed work at my local Dodge dealership where I bought it), they don't BBB scan either. A VERY small percentage of the population would go to that extent of background investigation. Realistically, most people just don't have the time.
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Very true that I really enjoy doing to research to make sure I am getting the best bang for the buck. I have spent little to no time researching lube joints. Rarely use them and am not a big fan. When I do have my car serviced, I take it to the places that I do business with and have already researched in the past. I was interested to get an idea on your perspective so I looked up your location. You live in an area with a little over 20,000 people and as I recall, you have one new car Dodge dealer in the immediate area. You choice is one of a lack of options especially when dealing with warranty. I live in an area well north of 1,000,000 and have dozens upon dozens of options. I want the best one, so more research. I currently have four vehicles (sold the fifth last year). When I gave my Wife a new car a couple of years back for Christmas, once I narrowed down to the exact car I wanted, I have about 10 dealers to choose from. Without a bit of research there is no guarentee I get a good one.



WAS said:
Out of sheer curiosity, why would you give a random person a handout of money, yet completely ignore advertising ?.
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When I run across someone looking for a handout, I don't know why they need a handout but I do know what it would take to get me to do the same thing. Empathy.



WAS said:
I know you speak for yourself, but in the bigger picture, flyers work fairly well. I'm just making sure that the point gets across that flyers do work, and you're representing the minority of customers. And again, some customers just have unreal expectations. There are some customers you just can't please, no matter how much you "strive for excellence".
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Perhaps they do where you live. Small communities have different dynamics then larger ones. Overall, even direct mailing has a success rate of about 1-3%, flyers less. The ROI isn't good particuarlly when you take into account opportunity costs. If the OP wants to distribute flyers, and lives in a larger community, then he would be better off with targeted direct mailing or using one of the many similar services available and spend his time more productively. I absolutely hear you when you say that some customers just can not be pleased! Boy have I run into a few of them. I am not one of them. I also know that pleasing a demanding customer can be very rewarding intrinsically.
 
rdorman said:
Flyer's on the car tick me off and are instantly discarded (touch my car and you might as well touch my wife or children). Flyer's in the door at home tick me off and are instantly discarded (little known trick of a house thief is to leave a flyer on the door and see if it disappears, if it does, some one is home...). Yellow pages, have thrown them away for years and do not use them. Everyone I have hired is from referals, forums such as these or a referal service such as Angie's List. I won't even have a store front work on my car without looking into them.



What a pro charges to do a correction the masses do not understand. Even if they where made to understand, many would still not do it. It is a finite market for correction, a larger market for a thorough detail (less correction) and a larger yet market for a good basic wash and wax. Still, those three make up the minority of the car owning public as they are DIY'ing or running through the whirl and swirl. Most look at it like, looks great today, rains tomorrow.



Fortuniately, there are some consumers that 'get it'. Being one, I still often DIY but learn from those more experienced such as many here. Some times I pay to have some on do it for me but that is more of a curiosity or a convenience type situation.



Bottom line is what a pro is looking for is a small market segment. Identify who they are in your community and how to get to them!



Just a customers $0.02
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man, you sound like a very poor man..... very poor....... God Bless You!
 
rdorman said:
I was interested to get an idea on your perspective so I looked up your location. You live in an area with a little over 20,000 people and as I recall, you have one new car Dodge dealer in the immediate area. You choice is one of a lack of options especially when dealing with warranty. I live in an area well north of 1,000,000 and have dozens upon dozens of options. I want the best one, so more research. I currently have four vehicles (sold the fifth last year). When I gave my Wife a new car a couple of years back for Christmas, once I narrowed down to the exact car I wanted, I have about 10 dealers to choose from. Without a bit of research there is no guarentee I get a good one.



Perhaps they do where you live. Small communities have different dynamics then larger ones. Overall, even direct mailing has a success rate of about 1-3%, flyers less. The ROI isn't good particuarlly when you take into account opportunity costs. If the OP wants to distribute flyers, and lives in a larger community, then he would be better off with targeted direct mailing or using one of the many similar services available and spend his time more productively. I absolutely hear you when you say that some customers just can not be pleased! Boy have I run into a few of them. I am not one of them. I also know that pleasing a demanding customer can be very rewarding intrinsically.
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You are correct in that my market area is much smaller than that of a metropolitan city. I still think there's less research (BBB and otherwise) going on that you think there is, but none the less, I do agree that (to some extent) a small city vs a large city is very different.



If ROI is 1% to 3% on flyers (or direct mail, or anything for that matter), then what's the best way to market, in your opinion ? I'm curious what someone in a larger metropolitan area has better luck with.
 
I don't envy small, geographically locked businesses, been there. Tough job you pros do in many ways. Again, just a consumer here.... demanding one of course! But.... never stop netoworking, team up with other businesses, offer services that bring in money not just the glory (without diluting your product), sponsor sports teams (my daugher STILL wears some companies t-shirt from little league softball, years of cheap advertising), get in with the chamber, be transparent, host educational seminars (don't teach them to be you, teach them what to do between coming to you and you could even use this to sell product if it fits into your business plan), maintain relationships, know thyself, stay in contact with clients, coupon it in slow times, give a customer a refreral discount on their next service, know your most profitable demographics and target them, establish brand identity, put yourself above your competition in such a way that you never even have to mention them but it is obvious and get the news out there, reach out to the media (like a expert radio interview but you are not paying...), get involved with local charity (walk-a-thons are great, sure there are some hoops to jump through (getting in good with the chamber helps) but they are cheap, media eats up people raising money(you have to go to the media, they don't come to you) for some local kid with XYZ decease, they are very pubilc and everyone will wear that darn t-shirt with your name on it until it turns to dust... plus, you write it off as an advertising expense... no need to mention that part of course!), market every waking hour (in what you drive, how it looks, what you wear, how you present yourself... every moment outside of the home) .... just some high level thoughts.
 
Some interesting thoughts there for sure ! One nice thing about being in a smaller population market is that there is definitely less competition out there, compared to a big city. None the less, some very good suggestions there.
 
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