First Thread...What dissolves dried ATF?

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xltom

New member
Hello Detailers.

I'm hoping youguys can help me out. I have a leaky transfer case and it has made a serious mess of my undercarriage. The tranny fluid is dried up and is like hardened roofing tar.. about 1/4 inch thick. I tried some spray-on degreaser but that didn't make a dent. I scrubbed it with a brush and dish scrubber using dish soap but no luck. I even tried a putty knife but I don't wanna lose that much paint.



Do you guys know of any products that will dissolve this stuff? I think I need something more agressive than simple green. Thanks for any help. Tom
 
It went on in "layers", it was exposed to heat, which solidified it, just get some cheap mineral spirits and spray on, let it dwell for a half an hour, use a wire brush and agitate/scratch the deposit, put on some more mineral spirits, as necessary,repeat, if needed repeat, etc repeat, is the cheapest and probably over time, the fastest.

After you see it get down to where you can see the casing, then some more mineral spirits and a softer bristled brush and follow with some water based degreaser to finish it up.

Grumpy
 
Over here, mineral spirits would be one of the milder non-polar solvents. A lot of the tar removers over here are now using neat white spirits/stoddard solvent or even xylene.
 
PiPUK said:
A lot of the tar removers over here are now using neat white spirits/stoddard solvent or even xylene.
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Huh, I grew up with Stoddar Solvent being a go-to (to me it smells like childhood, my dad used a *lot* of it), but I thought xylene was kinda a :nono for casual use.
 
Have problem is that ATF contains several polyermic additives, which the heat and age have solidified, so it will take a bit of breaking it down, by the layers it went on, to remove it.

Grumpy
 
Accumulator said:
Huh, I grew up with Stoddar Solvent being a go-to (to me it smells like childhood, my dad used a *lot* of it), but I thought xylene was kinda a :nono for casual use.
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As Ron will probably agree, the less you use any of these solvents, the better but they are in routine use. Over here in the UK and Ireland, almost all of our roads are tarmac so tar is a much more significant problem than with you lads. A decontamination will almost always incorporate a heavy solvent tar remover - realistically it is the only way to do the job. Unfortunately this is a cheap and nasty end of the market - most products are really not what you might expect a detailler to use but few are willing to use the boutique 'detailler' type tar removers. One of the reasons is a misconception that a fast dissolution of tar and the price of the product are the only measures of the product. This means that the likes of AG tar and glue remover is considered a poor product. It is designed to be safe but that means that it works more slowly than the most common products which are frequently a lot less pleasant than stoddard or xylene - high concentrations of toluene are not unknown and these type of products tend to get a lot of attention because they dissolve tar so effectively. Alas they can indeed do damage but most people do not actually realise.



I would not be too concerned with either stoddard of xylene as a one off.



Dan said:
I'd try WD-40 before I went crazy with other solvents.
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WD-40 uses a carrier very similar to stoddard solvent. You also have to be cautious because WD-40 is actually designed to be quite persistent - I have had to sell people dedicated solvent based products in the past because they have used WD-40 to remove tar only to find that they have nothing which will remove the WD-40 residue.
 
Xylene is a very toxic solvent, to humans and other living things.

Which is why in most of the states, by law, any product containing any percentage of it, must carry a 'skull and crossbones" on the label, or a well defined and written notice on the product's label.

Standard "stoddard' solvents are fairly safe for use on OEM paint, but not always on refinish paint.

Most of the products marketed to the car care people that are hydrocarbon solvent based, are mainly mineral spirits with some other small percentages of other solvents added.

Mineral spirits are fairly safe for humans to use, and are quite reasonable in price here in the USA.

Once again, the "warning" regarding knowing if the paint is OEM or refinish must be considered when using.

WD-40 is a great product, but as you point out, has some "residual" effects that most don't consider, or are unaware of, when using it.

I live in a rurual area of Iowa, and most of the secondary roads are "tar and chip" roads.

Come spring when they redo some of these roads, the "tar flies" and in very hot weather, the same.

When folks come to me about some "small" tar spots, I either recommend the mineral spirits for removal or if just really small, few, plain old naptha lighter fluid, especially for small deposits on their carpet.

There is a solvent blend out there that is a true solvent, and not a delimoene based, it is the ValuGard New Car Prep, not flammable, not combustible, non-toxic, meets all 50 states VOC requirements, is privated labeled over here for Ford and Chrysler as well.

Their World Wide Health and Safety lab people went nuts when it was submitted for testing before they would allow private label of it.

Took a while and lot of valid documentation to get them on track.

Grumpy
 
PiPUK said:
WD-40 uses a carrier very similar to stoddard solvent. You also have to be cautious because WD-40 is actually designed to be quite persistent - I have had to sell people dedicated solvent based products in the past because they have used WD-40 to remove tar only to find that they have nothing which will remove the WD-40 residue.
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Interesting, on just about any non detailing forum people use it regularly to remove stickers. I've used it as well. From my understanding the carrier solvent is kerosene. The residue comes off using Megs degreaser, even in carpets or fabric. In fact, it is my go-to grease/tar remover on fabrics because it is so easy to remove.
 
Ron Ketcham said:
Xylene is a very toxic solvent, to humans and other living things.

Which is why in most of the states, by law, any product containing any percentage of it, must carry a 'skull and crossbones" on the label, or a well defined and written notice on the product's label.

Standard "stoddard' solvents are fairly safe for use on OEM paint, but not always on refinish paint.

Most of the products marketed to the car care people that are hydrocarbon solvent based, are mainly mineral spirits with some other small percentages of other solvents added.

Mineral spirits are fairly safe for humans to use, and are quite reasonable in price here in the USA.

Once again, the "warning" regarding knowing if the paint is OEM or refinish must be considered when using.

WD-40 is a great product, but as you point out, has some "residual" effects that most don't consider, or are unaware of, when using it.

I live in a rurual area of Iowa, and most of the secondary roads are "tar and chip" roads.

Come spring when they redo some of these roads, the "tar flies" and in very hot weather, the same.

When folks come to me about some "small" tar spots, I either recommend the mineral spirits for removal or if just really small, few, plain old naptha lighter fluid, especially for small deposits on their carpet.

There is a solvent blend out there that is a true solvent, and not a delimoene based, it is the ValuGard New Car Prep, not flammable, not combustible, non-toxic, meets all 50 states VOC requirements, is privated labeled over here for Ford and Chrysler as well.

Their World Wide Health and Safety lab people went nuts when it was submitted for testing before they would allow private label of it.

Took a while and lot of valid documentation to get them on track.

Grumpy
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Things may well change soon then, Ron! Assuming the globally harmonised system actually incorporates the US (you never do know...), xylene is considered only harmful, not toxic. In Europe this has been the case for years and it has carried over to the globally harmonised classification listing which is bang up to date.



Perhaps over in the US, your tar remover products are different. Like I say, the autoglym product certainly fits the mineral spirit 'like' description you have given, so this may well be representative of the products you have available. Over here, many people consider it as good as useless. The benchmark we have is a product called Tardis. As you can see, it is not only a little bit xylene but potentially more than half is xylene. If you hit our UK forums, you might be forgiven for thinking people actually drink the stuff - many people use many gallons of this every month and if you were to try to suggest it wasn't the safest of product to use in such quantity, you would have people beating your door down to offer you some physical re-education.



I fully agree with the likes of the product you have noted but will put my hands up and admit guilt - we don't make one. We could, but, as before, no one will buy it. The product I linked to above costs about $15 per gallon (to the end user) and this has become the price point one must target. The product concept you noted may well cost more than that to the manufacturer, much less the end user!
 
According to our OSHA, California, etc, etc, xylene is toxic by inhaltion, skin contact, etc.

Google or whatever what our health agencies have to say about it.

They have a lot of regs on it for "commercial use", as they have started to do with hydrofluric acids (which volume detailing operations loved), as it attacks the lungs, enters the skin and removes calcium from the bones, what it does to skin tissue, etc.

Grumpy

 
Ron Ketcham said:
According to our OSHA, California, etc, etc, xylene is toxic by inhaltion, skin contact, etc.

Google or whatever what our health agencies have to say about it.

They have a lot of regs on it for "commercial use", as they have started to do with hydrofluric acids (which volume detailing operations loved), as it attacks the lungs, enters the skin and removes calcium from the bones, what it does to skin tissue, etc.

Grumpy
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Very interesting how there are such major differences between our regulations!



You do wonder about all of it though. You guys are much more strict on some products than we are, we are much more strict than you on others - clearly the GHS has some way to go before our systems are actually harmonised.
 
PiPUK & Ron Ketcham- Thanks for the info!



And heh heh, I thought I was the only person who had concerns about the WD-40 residue :D People usually act like I'm nuts when I warn about that!
 
Accumulator said:
And heh heh, I thought I was the only person who had concerns about the WD-40 residue :D People usually act like I'm nuts when I warn about that!
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We've been agreeing on too much lately! You are nuts! :D
 
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