Fight it or Pay it?

Should I fight the ticket or pay it?

  • Fight it

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Pay it

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
S

stilez

New member
Preface: Wesport, CT is a rather affluent area and with that comes bothersome cops. If you've ever been to a similar area, you know that cops will haggle you for minor infractions. They don't tend to deal with a lot of theft, vandalism, and such, so traffic enforcement and drugs/alcohol is their main focus (in my experiences). My future in-laws live in the town over and have been for about 25 years. They have always complained about Westport PD and their petty infractions.



Further, if you've ever driven in CT, you know that you put your life on the line a lot. Many roads lack turning lanes and shoulders... we are talking about main roads. Traffic lights are a mere suggestion as I find almost EVERY red is blown by a car or two. Note: I have lived in CT since 2002, I am still amazed at the amount of people who use a red light as a yellow and never get nabbed for it (seen it happen many times in front of police officers).







Setting the Scene: Coming back from a late movie, Pirates of the Carribean: Dead Man's Chest (which was terrible BTW), Liz and I traveled east on the Post Road in CT from Norwalk, through Westport, to our place in Southport. Traveling at about 42-45 mph in a 35 mph zone, I felt safe and in control. After all, we'd traveled two miles on this 4-lane road and seen all of 4 cars. Liz wasn't feeling 100%. She has a dairy allergy and thought her dinner from earlier might have contained a little cheese. In discomfort she said, "Just get me home".







The Infraction: As we approached a rather sharp curve in the road, we approached a light (not known to me), and as we saw the light it turned yellow. To the best of my judgment, we crossed the line at about the same time it had turned red. Once yellow, I committed to FLIGHT (go) instead of FIGHT (stop). At first, I let off and it slowed me down, but I chose to continue. Little did I realize, a Wesport PD car quickly approached and at the time of me passing through the light, he was about 700-1000 feet behind my vehicle.







The situation: I knew it was coming. I saw the Crown Vic headlights quickly approaching and made sure we were buckled in (always are). Lights and spotlight go on. I hit the blinker to the right, cranked down the windows, and pulled into the closest side street under a big light and stopped (no shoulder on Post Rd). With both windows down, I proceeded to turn on the interior lights and turn on my hazards. Both hands on the wheel and Liz's hands on her lap, the officer approached slowly with his flashlight.





Me: Good Evening Officer, how are you?

PO: Good.

Me: Sir, I apologize for that back there. My girlfriend here has a bad food allergy and it seems to be acting up on her. We are just heading to our place in Southport.

PO: Does she need an ambulance?

Me: I don't think so.

Liz: (crying) I'm sorry officer, I told him to go.

Me: I think she just needs a bathroom, if you know what I mean.

PO: Can I have your license, registration, and insurance card?

Me: Sure (15 seconds to gather and hand em over).

PO: I'll be right back.





5-7 minutes passes and another officer shows up. Lights on, spot lights on our car.





Another 5 minutes pass and Liz and I are completely humiliated hoping nobody saw us pulled over by 2 cop cars. The officer approaches:





PO: Here's your paper work and your summons. If you would've tapped your brakes back there in attempt, I would've gave you a warning, but you just blew through the light.

Me: I understand, sir, and am very sorry.

PO: The fine is $124.

Me: How many points if I plead guilty?

PO: None, but if you fight it, you have to come to court and face extra fees + points.

Me: Thank you sir, have a good night.









So here I stand. Was I wrong? Yes. The call was questionable as CT is basically a free-for-all in the traffic light sector, but the fact of the matter was, technically the light was red (barely).



I've been pulled over 22 times since I started driving at 16. I've had only 1 moving violation. In the past 5 years, I haven't receieved any tickets or been in any accidents. My record is clean!



I talked to a few people in the area (friends) and they were uphalled. I am being completely honest with this situation as I want a non-biased response. Am I just being foolish and should I pay it? Or should I go to court and fight it?







Thanks in advance!
 
WEll you did run a red light, even if by a fraction of a second. If the excuse was real I would consider taking it to court. However, if the excuse was just that and there are no points (and it wont afect your insurance) I'd just pay it.
 
That sux.



No points

Cheap ticket

I'd pay it. It is easier and less risk since you could get points fighting.



That officer really had nothing to do huh?



I bet he really needed the backup to as I assume you and Liz look pretty shady ;-)



Sorry to hear about that, but at least if you pay it, it is over and you can laugh about it.



I once got pulled over on campus for flying around a turn and when asked why I was going so fast I replied "Well, this is kind of embaressing officer but I really have to poop." (I did too, and it was like 2:30am, I just got out of architecture studio)
 
I wouldn't fight it. I couldn't tell 100% from what you typed, but it seemed to me that you were saying that you entered the intersection as the light turned red. My understanding (from driver's ed 14 years ago) is that technically you have run the red light if the light changes to red at any time you are in the intersection. What the light was while you were entering the intersection is not a factor. What the light is while you are in the intersection is the deciding factor. At least that's my understanding.



Now, if you were saying that the light turned red as you exited the intersection then I would say fight it.
 
I would pay it in a second. You *know* who the judge is going to believe and it sure as heck isn't you.



After he laughs you out of court, you will have to pay the fine, court costs, parking, and most importantly--your time!!!



FWIW, I have heard of people calling and asking for an extension, then calling and asking for another extension, and another, etc. They basically prolong it for as long as possible hoping that when they finally do have to show up, the officer is *not* there--supposedly this is an automatic win for you.



Again, I would just pay it.
 
This situation sucks but it's a no brainer. No points on the ticket, just pay it. You sealed your fate when you said you didn't need an ambulance. Assuming running a red light is a only 2 points, you're looking at probably an extra $200 a year for min 3 years on your insurance. That's on top of the court fees and the original fine if youi lose.



Not worth it to me.



I feel for you though...I got stopped making a right on yellow yesterday. Cop tried to say I blew thru a red light. I nicely debated with him saying that the light was green as I approached, turned yellow as I neared the turn, and was still yellow as I was making the turn. In all fairness, it probably did turn red while I was under the light but that is completely different from what he accused me of. He let me off with a warning because (I'm speculating here) that it wasn't cut and dry that it was yellow or red and that I had no points.



Cops tend to be much more lenient if you have a history of no points.
 
Sorry man......



What exactly is the summons for????



Facts are if the light is not red when you enter the intersection, you didn't run a red light. If it was a clear night, dry highways, and minimal if no traffic, that only helps you because in those situations you technically should be driving more cautious.



I don't agree with the officer about the brakes. You can engine break with your manual transmission, how did he know you didn't do that? You basically stayed off the gas at first to evaluate the situation and went through the light when you felt it was safe. If you hit the brakes it would of slowed you down so much that you wouldn't of made it through the light and you since you didn't have enough distance to stop, that would of made it even worse. You were basically right at the breaking point and had a to think quick, and you did.



One other thing you can do is check the light. The yellow should last one second for every 10 MPH the speed limit is. If the light is not timed right, that could be your hot ticket out of this fine (like if the yellow does not last long enough).



I would fight it....how can they prove you went through it and entered the intersection when it was red. This is subject to intperpretation, and you have a witness. Where was the cop? How far behind you or on the side of you? How clear was his line of vision?????? How certain was he about what you did with what kind of accuracy? All things I would bring up in court. You sure it's no points? Again, what exactly did he give you a summons for? Sometimes they get creative.



If it were me I wouldn't of been so cooperative. I know you should be, and I am at first, but I would of been a bit more defensive about doing nothing wrong and asked him point blank, what "should" I have done. No law says you have to tap your brakes to show you were attentive....that is rediculous........BS.
 
Pay it. Ya, you ran a red - probably every one of us woulda done the same thing. I normally side with the police, but in this case he should have given you a warning and told you to drive safe, the end. It's tempting to fight it on principle, but it isn't worth the points if you lose. $124, it's a nice dinner you'll miss.
 
Quick responses and I appreciate them all!





I looked up the infraction as he wrote it in "cop code". It is for turning right on red which is basically driving through a red light. I can't find anywhere listed online what, if any, the point charge is.





FWIW, the local yocals I have talked to have said to go to the Chief of Police in Westport as they think it's ludicrous. I don't think I'd go *that* far, but there are definately some split feelings in here. I will let this run a bit more before I make a choice.



Thanks again.
 
I don't know the laws in CT but here in calif we have 4 options (a) pay the fine & call it a done deal (b) pay the fine & go to traffic school - keeps points off your record (c) request a trial with the officer present (d) request a "trial by declaration". Going on the assumption that most cops are lazy I always go with "D" and have been successful about 80% of the time - mainly because the officer does not respond.



You usually have to pay the fine/bail amount up front then you request the trial by declaration documents from the clerk. They are extremely easy to fill out and basically you just write down what happened then forward it to the court and wait for their decision. The officer must do the same and write down his version of what happened (this is where the lazyness kicks in). In most cases the cops dont take the time to submit the documents within the time prescribed and WAAA LAAA you win. Even if you loose the decision on a trial by declaration you can file for a hearing de novo (a new trial) and take it to court in person.



A tip. if your county allows for an extension TAKE IT. the more time you put between the day u were ticketed and the cop having to do anything is better for you. this gives the cop time to forget what happened. Another thing you can look into is a "iniformal discorvery request" at least that's what they are called here if Calif. Most cops take notes of the incident on a space behind their copy of the ticket so you never see it, this is how they refresh their memory. well you have a right to see that info since it is evidence against you and the way you get a copy is by filing an informal discovery request. Now there is a prescribed amount of time in which they have to give you the copy and if they dont you can always ask the judge to declare a mistrail because they didnt comply with the request. chances are the judge will just order the cop to give you a copy then continue the case at a later date (to give you time to prepare your case given your new evidence).



Pain in the a$$ i know but hey it's fun stuff. I was recently ticketed in Feb 06 and just filed a by papers for a trial by declaration (i have to wait up to 60 days for a response). if they rule against me then I just file for a new trail and take it to court maybe by december 06 - so at least i bought myself a year by filing a few forms.



good luck.



armand
 
In your situation, I probably wouldn't try to beat it. From what I have read in the traffic ticket beating books, they say that in these traffic light infractions, it is the police's word against yours. The judge will most likely believe the police. Of course, I understand that your situation was somewhat unique, and you may have a better chance of winning the case in court, if you can prove that your GF's situation was pretty bad. Maybe a doctor's note or something would help you.



In speeding tickets, usually fighting the ticket is the better way to go. Usually you can prove that various issues may have caused an improper reading on the radar gun of the police (poor maintenance, electrical interence, lack of experience, measuring speed of another car, etc...) You can also use mathematical calculations to catch the police in errors, where you can then prove to the judge that the prosecution has not been able to fully prove that you are guilty.



At least in New York (Nassau County), when you go to court to plead guilty/not guilty, the people over there negotiate with you before you decide to plead not guilty. They may reduce the fine and/or reduce the points. Depending on your situation, then you would either pay the fine or just go to court.



I know of a friend who was driving her husband (I believe it was a check up for a broken leg) to the doctor's office. They didn't have their seat belts on, and the driver (friend) was talking on the cell phone in NYC. The police pulled them over and gave them a ticket. My friend decided to go to court, and after proving to the judge (with a doctor's note) that she didn't have her seat belt on because she was helping her husband, and talking on the phone to the doctor at that time. She was deemed not guilty by the judge. Whether that was really what happened....



I haven't given a definite opinion, but I hope that my advice will help you with your decision. If $124 isn't too much for you, maybe you can just pay it. If it will affect your insurance, driving record, etc... then maybe you should think some more about it.



Good luck!
 
Pay it and be happy there are no points.



You admitted that it was yellow as you approached, turned red as you crossed the intersection, and you slowed then gunned it.



You admitted that technically, the light was red (barely) Law is all about technicalities. You admitted the light was red, even if barely. Not to be antagonistic about it, but you ran the light and you got caught. Just pony up and be glad there aren't any points.



As my old football coach used to say, "Sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you."



I just reread your explanation. You admitted you were also exceeding the speed limit by 7 to 10 miles per hour. Obviously, we all done it, but if you get ticketed, what's your beef? You admitted to speeding and blowing through the light. You were wrong, pay it and move on. And I say that as someone who has done the same thing, so I am not preaching, I'm just giving my opinion.
 
Asonyexec said:
I don't know the laws in CT but here in calif we have 4 options (a) pay the fine & call it a done deal (b) pay the fine & go to traffic school - keeps points off your record (c) request a trial with the officer present (d) request a "trial by declaration". Going on the assumption that most cops are lazy I always go with "D" and have been successful about 80% of the time - mainly because the officer does not respond.



You usually have to pay the fine/bail amount up front then you request the trial by declaration documents from the clerk. They are extremely easy to fill out and basically you just write down what happened then forward it to the court and wait for their decision. The officer must do the same and write down his version of what happened (this is where the lazyness kicks in). In most cases the cops dont take the time to submit the documents within the time prescribed and WAAA LAAA you win. Even if you loose the decision on a trial by declaration you can file for a hearing de novo (a new trial) and take it to court in person.



A tip. if your county allows for an extension TAKE IT. the more time you put between the day u were ticketed and the cop having to do anything is better for you. this gives the cop time to forget what happened. Another thing you can look into is a "iniformal discorvery request" at least that's what they are called here if Calif. Most cops take notes of the incident on a space behind their copy of the ticket so you never see it, this is how they refresh their memory. well you have a right to see that info since it is evidence against you and the way you get a copy is by filing an informal discovery request. Now there is a prescribed amount of time in which they have to give you the copy and if they dont you can always ask the judge to declare a mistrail because they didnt comply with the request. chances are the judge will just order the cop to give you a copy then continue the case at a later date (to give you time to prepare your case given your new evidence).



Pain in the a$$ i know but hey it's fun stuff. I was recently ticketed in Feb 06 and just filed a by papers for a trial by declaration (i have to wait up to 60 days for a response). if they rule against me then I just file for a new trail and take it to court maybe by december 06 - so at least i bought myself a year by filing a few forms.



good luck.



armand
Click to expand...



No wonder our court systems are all screwed up. Why not just do the honorable thing and pay up? You got caught, you pay up.
 
Sean,



If you definately feel you should not have been ticketed, you should fight it. Worst case is you paying the fine anyway. All it takes is some time and effort.



But check out www.ticketassassin.com. This site has great info on one of the options another person posted: trial by declaration.



Basically, you won't be standing there intimidated by an officer or the judge, and still be able to get your argument and statement out properly in the trial, except you write it down in words. I highly suggest you try out the site. All the people I know who have used his site (paid) have all gotten the ticket dismissed.



If you need help with anything at all, let me know. BUT definately USE the site if you choose to go trial by declaration.
 
Should have TAPPED THE BRAKES? That makes ZERO sense. If you tap your brakes then blow through... you make it obvious that you thought "i'm supposed to stop" and then chose not to. He should GIVE you a ticket if you tap 'em and go through... and NOT give you one if you just blow through, as you could have done that trying to be safer, being that right before it turns red and you don't know if you would have time to even stop, you don't want to get stuck in the intersection. Hell of a lot of sense cops make.
 
drew.haynes said:
Should have TAPPED THE BRAKES? That makes ZERO sense. If you tap your brakes then blow through... you make it obvious that you thought "i'm supposed to stop" and then chose not to. He should GIVE you a ticket if you tap 'em and go through... and NOT give you one if you just blow through, as you could have done that trying to be safer, being that right before it turns red and you don't know if you would have time to even stop, you don't want to get stuck in the intersection. Hell of a lot of sense cops make.
Click to expand...



Exactly, the key is to work the system and not get the ticket in the first place. Last time I got stopped it was a BS reason (claimed I crossed the zebra stripes while merging) and he was about 5 cars behind me so I don't know how he could of seen crap. I basically worked him into giving mea 35 dollar seatbelt ticket, becasue I had taken my belt off to reach accross the car to get my papers and he never saw it on me.
 
It depends on where the officer was when you went through the ligth. If he was 700 feet behind, there is no way he can be sure you broke the plane of the intersection before or after the light turned red. On that basis, you could probably beat the ticket.



However, you basically admitted to the cop you ran the light and I guarantee he wrote that down on the back of the ticket and will use your statements against you should you fight the ticket.



I'd request deferred abjudication; basically you are on parole in that town for 3-6 months and if you don't get any tickets during that time, it is dismissed and your insurance company will never know. Your other option is traffic school. Same deal, complete traffic school and the ticket goes away and your insurance company is none the wiser.



Free advice: When you get pulled over, be polite but admit to nothing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top