F/T: LC Pads & Sealants

S

SouthernBoy

New member
A buddy of mine stopped by this weekend after I BF'd my car. He drives a red early 90's vintage BMW. He has always waxed the car so the paint is in good shape. He wants me to help him duplicate the shine he saw on my car :xyxthumbs .



By reading through the old posts, I know that there are chemical, abrasive and chemical/abrasive swirl mark removers. The swirls on his car are not the worst I've seen, but you can see them in virtually any light.



So that brings a technical question to this newbie's mind...



The swirls are too bad for just the BF polish, but I'm confused as to what swirl mark remover can be used before the BF polish?? Will a chemical SMR be removed by the BF polish?? :nixweiss



BTW, I (he) ;) will be using a PC for all applications.



Any help appreciated.
 
I don't believe there are any chemical swirl mark removers besides a urethane paint thinner (joke). Any swirl remover that actually does as it says and removes swirls will have to abrasively remove a thin layer of paint from the car or chemically strip a layer of paint off the car (not recommended at ALL).



Are what you referring to as chemical swirl removers ones with fillers that hide the swirls?



3M Swirlmark Remover #39009 for dark cars should work fine by PC and some pressure -- it removed swirls by hand for me. If that with some pressure doesn't work, try Finesse-It II or PI-III.:up
 
I would think it depends. There is the swirl mark remover that hides the swirls and the ones that remove the swirls.



If you used something from the Meguiars product line that hides the swirls the BlackFire polish may remove the Meguairs product.



If you use a 3M swirl mark remover for example you are actually "fixing" the swirl's by filling them in with clearcoat. The BlackFire would not remove the 3M product because there really isn't any product left "on" the paint. The product that was used fixed the swirls, it did not hide them.



Hope you can understand my babble, not good at explaining this type of thing.
 
Yeah, I should have been a little more specific on the "chemical" term.:o You hit it on the head, I was referring to fillers.
 
I know Zanio makes a "filler". It's basically those natural products that claim no abrasive stuff in thier prouct. Without something to smooth the clear coat over the scratch (what a swirl mark is) all your doing is filling the swirl with a product that fills it to make the surface even which will have to be re-applied sooner or later.
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by puterbum [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>3M Swirlmark Remover #39009 for dark cars should work fine by PC and some pressure [/b]</blockquote>
If I'm using the PC with the 3M SMR, do you think I should use the yellow or white CMA pad?
 
The product your going to use is very very mild. The yellow pad is sort of "needed" to get results.



I dont know if you want to use the method I use but I have been detailing with the buffer for almost a year now and I found this process to work the best.



Use the buffer to work the product in (a little pressure), moving in lines at a rate of around 3 inches per second, the second pass use less pressure and move the buffer a little faster. I move the buffer over the area four times, by the fourth time I am hardly using any pressure, the buffer is spinning freely and the product is hazing as the buffer is leaving it's trail. I then buff it off and have a huge smile on my face.
 
1) 3M swirlmark remover both removes clearcoat at the edges or a swirlmark AND leaves behind fillers.



Magnified view of a deep swirl mark before an abrasive:



|_|



AFTER:



\_/ (lesser angles)



They round off the edges of swirl marks and light scratches until they are either invisible or very hard to see (2 apps of properly applied SMR should remove all of the normal swirls).



Dawn wash after SMR, it leaves some mild fillers behind. You'll know you got them all when water stops beading on some spots on your car.



I'll leave the PC stuff to other people . . .
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by joed1228 [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>...I dont know if you want to use the method I use but I have been detailing with the buffer for almost a year now and I found this process to work the best... [/b]</blockquote>
I like it, I like it!:xyxthumbs

Man, my buddy's going to have some <strong class='bbc'>tired[/b] arms by the time "we" finish! :p
 
Hey puterbum, is this to give the BF polish a clear shot at the paint? In other words, remove all the chemicals from the SMR to prevent streaking?



BTW, thanks to you and joed1228 for helping. :bounce
 
Oh wow, thanks for the info Pete. So what your saying is follow-up every two layers of the SMR with a wash to see how many swirls you REALLY got rid of?



That's going to be a major pain in the but with my car since it's so hard to dry but I'm going to go the extra mile. I am trying to make a time table since it takes me so long to detail my car.



I can use the clay and swirl mark remover on friday, the Klasse All in One on Saturday and all Day Sunday with be for the Klasse Glaze.
 
You dont necessarily need to wash. Just keep a spray bottle handy with 50/50 isopropyl alcohol/distilled water. After buffing, mist a section and wipe clean. You will strip any fillers and be able to see if you need to perform more abrasive work.
 
Couple of questions.



1) Does FI-II "remove" the swirls or hide them? What about Meguair's #9 Swirl Remover 2.0?



2) If I used either of the previously mentioned products and the car looked nearly swirless, would an application or two of Klasse AIO remove the fillers in these products, thus making visible the multitude of swirls that were there before?
 
Chuckmotor:



FI-II definitely removes swirls. It is a true abrasive, and mor aggressive than 3M SMR or Meguiar's. It has diminishing abrasives - if you don't work it you'll have really bad haze left. However keep working it and it will polish that out and leave a pretty decent gloss. However I recommend following it up with something milder before your wax step. Meguiar's #9 2.0 seems to work very well for this.
 
Maybe I'm just thick (probably so), but what am I trying to accomplish by washing or using the alcohol/water combination after 3M SMR? Is it to remove any fillers? Prevent streaking? Convice my neighbors that I am truly insane? All of the above?



Somebody help a dumb 'ol country boy!:p
 
It is to remove fillers or any other chemicals left behind by the 3m SMR, so the sealant you are going to apply after will properly bond to the paint.
 
Don't want to beat a dead horse (I swear I saw his leg wiggle), but any idea what would happen if you applied 3M SMR, followed by BF polish, then BF protectant?



Would you still need to wash between SMR and polish? Is the polish redundant?



Wait! I just saw him wiggle again!:D
 
You should do the SMR or the BF polish not both. You can if you want. You may want to Dawn wash after either to remove residue.
 
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by waxman [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>You should do the SMR or the BF polish not both. You can if you want. You may want to Dawn wash after either to remove residue. [/b]</blockquote>I don't think a Dawn wash after BF polish is recommended in almost any normal situation. The blackfire "polish" is probably way more filler content than it is abrasive / oily (I have not used it, take it FWIW).

I personally (if I had a PC) would do SMR with some sort of polishing pad (yellow??) and then the BF polish with a very "soft", gentle pad as if I were applying PPCL or AIO. Then the protectant by hand or if one wanted to use a PC, with the same type of pad you'd apply wax with.

I have not used a PC! Keep this in mind.
 
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