Epic Fail............
- Thread starter ALM
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Andre'
New member
In my OP if your hand squeks after a wash it's time for a wax.
imported_Flash Gordon
New member
A Colorado company said it created 4,231 jobs with the help of President Obama's economic recovery plan.The real #: less then 1,000.
A child care center in Florida said it saved 129 jobs with the help of stimulus money. Instead, it gave pay raises to its existing employees.
Elsewhere in the U.S. some jobs credited to the stimulus program were counted two,three,four or even more times.
The Gov't has grossly overstated by thousands the # of jobs it has created or saved with federal contracts under the presidents $787 BILLION recovery program, according to the AP's review of data released in the programs 1st progress report.
The review revealed some counts were more the 10 times the actual # of jobs, some jobs were credited to stimulus spending when, in fact, none were produced.
This article goes on and on.....................Boo Hoo
My question is: Does ANYONE know of someone who has been rehired or offered a better job do to this program? :toetap05:
Where has all this money gone? :scared:
A child care center in Florida said it saved 129 jobs with the help of stimulus money. Instead, it gave pay raises to its existing employees.
Elsewhere in the U.S. some jobs credited to the stimulus program were counted two,three,four or even more times.
The Gov't has grossly overstated by thousands the # of jobs it has created or saved with federal contracts under the presidents $787 BILLION recovery program, according to the AP's review of data released in the programs 1st progress report.
The review revealed some counts were more the 10 times the actual # of jobs, some jobs were credited to stimulus spending when, in fact, none were produced.
This article goes on and on.....................Boo Hoo
My question is: Does ANYONE know of someone who has been rehired or offered a better job do to this program? :toetap05:
Where has all this money gone? :scared:
thecarter13
New member
Hate to say it but no, I see the numbers often mentioned by his "group" and just kinda of wonder.
In the state I am in right now I refuse to post my opinion, lol. It's a good thing because I would probably rant and rave right now over said ideals.
imported_Bunky
New member
Most Americans who lose their job are not likely to find a job with the same pay and benefits. This is what no conscience capitalism is all about thanks to globalization since someone else is willing to do the work cheaper (and it cannot be blamed solely on government laws/taxes). If someone is willing to work in a mfg trade fo $3 an hour (loaded costs), it is tough to compete against that.
The stimulus plan is to keep some industries from shedding them so quickly to meet short term business goals (this years profits). Construction is a good example where people have been held on to do stimulus work (repaving roads, etc).
Is it working? I think it has had a positive effect but it never is clear as what people say it is or not.
imported_mobenzowner
New member
I agree it will be very tough for out of work Americans to find the type of jobs(pay,benefits) that have been lost. I do feel "no concience" capitalism has created one of the highest standards of living ever seen on the planet. It's when the govt gets involved(forcing banks & institutions to make bad mortgages, job killing taxation, etc,etc,etc) is what has gotten the economy off track.
A problem with the stimulus package as with any govt administered package is the money often times never reaches the intended target.
The effect could perhaps be positive in the near term, but the residuals from the plan in my opinion will obviously result in higher interest on U.S. debt and the true impact will not be know for years.
Anyway, these are just my opinions and not meant to be controversial in any way, plus what the heck do I know??
imported_User Name
New member
You Yanks are a interesting bunch. Having lived in the USA for 12 years (4 under Clinton - 8 under Bush), it amazes me how Bushie continues to get a past.
Corporate greed and a lack of fiscal regulation really started to expand under Clinton but Bush brought it to epic levels. The stimulus package and residual effects was a necessary reaction to dire circumstances. The reality is, in "western nations" with similar economies to the US, that don't tolerate the excesses of the US corporate elite, have not suffered like the US.
Right now, the housing market in Toronto is booming, it's as though there was never a recession here (which there was). Prices are soaring and there is very little inventory (it's a seller's market here).
The Canadian dollar is almost at par with the US, even though the Bank of Canada is trying to weaken it as much as they can (because Canada is largely an exporting nation).
Take away two stupid wars, corporate greed and offering mortgages to every Tom, Dick and Harry and the US would still be booming.
Corporate greed and a lack of fiscal regulation really started to expand under Clinton but Bush brought it to epic levels. The stimulus package and residual effects was a necessary reaction to dire circumstances. The reality is, in "western nations" with similar economies to the US, that don't tolerate the excesses of the US corporate elite, have not suffered like the US.
Right now, the housing market in Toronto is booming, it's as though there was never a recession here (which there was). Prices are soaring and there is very little inventory (it's a seller's market here).
The Canadian dollar is almost at par with the US, even though the Bank of Canada is trying to weaken it as much as they can (because Canada is largely an exporting nation).
Take away two stupid wars, corporate greed and offering mortgages to every Tom, Dick and Harry and the US would still be booming.
I only know of people looking for jobs - none of my friends looking for "professional" level positions have had any success. Even college kids looking for entry level positions have been struggling to find anything to pay the bills - lots of them are staying in school working on another degree waiting/hoping for the job market to improve.
imported_doctordon
New member
How did the corporations gain so much power over government and the people? It's simple: Campaign finances. The corporations hire hoards of lobbyists who dart in and out of lawmakers' offices in Washington, leaving behind trails of cash and corruption.
Most lawmakers hardly ever meet with the actual people they claim to represent. Instead, they spend their time cavorting with corporate rabblerousers who operate based on the simple principle of greed. Think Enron, but times a thousand. That's who controls Congress today.
Name five changes any politician (local, state, or federal) has done that affected you in a positive manner in the last year. OK, make it three in the last five years. Still can't think of any? - make it two.
In Florida, Govenor Crist passed an additional $25,000 homestead exemption to property owners. One could say that was a positive action but Pasco county raised property millage rates by 20% more than wiping out the additional exemption. The legislature also increased driver's, hunting, and fishing license fees by 50% or more with more increases to come in 2011 and 2012.
"It's all about the money."
End of rant.
imported_mobenzowner
New member
Actually at least in the media both domestic and abroad, Bush has been one of the most villified presidents in U.S. history. I certainly cant see him getting a free pass, I agree he and the Republicans made many mistakes as well.
I certainly cant agree that you can "spend" yourself out of bankruptcy as what the stimulus is an attempt to do. IMO the results if any will be short lived. Also, the similar nations did not force banks, mortgage companies etc to create bad loans, creating a housing bubble causing property values to rise falsley and too quickly which was a major cause of the financial "melt down". This program was begun under the "genius" of Jimmy Carter and expanded by Clinton and taken to the extreme when Barney Frank and his committee forced government backed mortgage lending. Hopefully we will not revert totally to Carter's inflation and 18% interest rates. 18% interest on our skyrocketing debt would not be pretty.
U.S. Housing prices have returned to more historical levels based on fundamentals (price/rent, price/income). Based on these same measures Canadian housing remains quite inflated. Even though the Canadian market has recovered and did indeed suffer much less and for a shorter period, some prominent economists predict Canada is still due for more correction in the future, and going forward the U.S. market is better positioned.
The Canadian dollar has remained virtually unchanged against the U.S. dollar since June 09, perhaps that is a result frm Bank of Canada's efforts. I feel the fact that Canada is a natural resource based economy also has a large part to do with it.
I think "corporate greed" has created more jobs than any force in history. I love to see companies make money. That usually means more & better jobs and a host of other benefits. I dont understand how some people & govt officials can be pro jobs and anti-business. Whats bad for bisiness is bad for jobs, period. I feel this is where the current administration is headed via higher indvivual and corporate taxing, cap & trade, and about every policy that are trying to put forward. Successful businesses have been the economic engine for this country. I do have a problem with "individual corporate greed" which to me is the elitist CEO's taking the grossly exagerated pays/bonuses they have taken for the last 25 years, while pillaging the little guy stockholders, employees etc. I just dont want to see the govt regulate it, I would rather see more informed stockholder decisions and the SEC do a better job of what they are currently supposed to be doing.
As for two "stupid wars", that is merely personal opinions which everyone has and bears no further comment from me. Again, this is my assessment only, perhaps I am way off base. I certainly do not claim to have the market cornered on being right all the time. I think differing opinions are great and it is productive to debate in good spirited ways.
I don't see how given their approval rating anyone could say either Bush 1 or Bush 2 got a "pass". Even among conservatives many would say there were disappointments with their presidencies.
In the US "corporate greed" is referred to as "profit" which is generally returned to the stockholders in the form of dividends or stock growth, or reinvested in the business.
Whether I agree with a war or not I would NEVER, EVER refer to the loss of brave American soldiers who made the ultimate sacrifice as "stupid." The price of freedom has been, is, and always will be a costly investment in human life. But without the sacrifices of millions of soldiers America and much of the rest of the world would not be living in a free society today.
Also if you go back in history the real problem with our mortgages started under Jimmy Carter who forced legislation in the home lending industry to give loans to people who couldn't qualify under normal conditions. Regan tried to reverse the trend but Clinton expanded the policies for everyone to qualify with no income verification. It was government and government agencies that caused much of this mess. It will be the hard working people of America who will get us out if it - not the government
Paul Sparks
New member
:iagree:
MB
Great reply. For a robust economy to return the government needs to get out of the way. Never had a poor man offer me a job.Don't need the government to tell me how much I can make .
As for a stupid war,some americans said we had no business getting involved between the germans and the rest of europe. How soon we forget.I'll get off my soap box now. :smile:
Paul S
MB
Great reply. For a robust economy to return the government needs to get out of the way. Never had a poor man offer me a job.Don't need the government to tell me how much I can make .
As for a stupid war,some americans said we had no business getting involved between the germans and the rest of europe. How soon we forget.I'll get off my soap box now. :smile:
Paul S
imported_User Name
New member
Maybe I wasn't clear. What I meant was by "right leaning"/conservatives/republicans. Bushie dug the US deep into debt, allowed the terrible lack of regulation of Clinton to continue to flourish, yet conservatives RARELY admit that Obama is suffering the consequences of the last 12 years of Bush and Clinton (as an aside, by in large, Canadians are not nearly as partisan as Americans and I don't see either Bush or Clinton as having done a good job while most Americans think either or was great).
Only, I never said that, or even implied it. The stimulus spending was a necessary measure to ensure more banks didn't fail and we didn't go from recession to depression. The immediate (and possibly long term impacts) could be the devaluation of the dollar and inflation, however, if the economny is able to recover and people get back to work, a healthy US economy can knock down those huge deficits quite easilty.
Nope. Nothing I've seen from anyone is suggesting what you are saying. In fact, everything I'm reading, even from the brain trust at Goldman Sachs is that Canada is the place to invest, as they have avoided the excesses of the US. One of my best friends is a VP at GS and I had him make some currency inquiries for me and as I said, your assessment couldn't be further from reality.
Well, you get part of it... I can't remember exactly the number but it was something like this... 30 years ago, the ratio of executive compensation to employee wage was something like 40:1, which is where it remains among most western nations. However, today in the US, the number is somewhere near 400:1. What have executives in America done to warrant such numbers, while the ordinary Joe's salary has pretty much flatlined over the last 15 years.
1. Attacking the wrong country under a false pretense is easily classified as stupid.
2. Attacking the right country, without much of a plan and an understanding that our "allies" would be harboring the enemy is also pretty stupid IMO.
The first depression was caused by the overcapacity from the automobile.. the current one was cause by the overcapacity from the computer/internet.
We need another big invention to go crazy over.
Seems like people get mad at every President no matter how they try to correct or improve the economy. It's hopeless in my opinion. I remember Jimmy Carter begging the Fed to cut interest rates. And they didn't and it cost him his job.
Personally with the kind of spending the government has done I was extremely worried about the inflation that it usually brings with it. When prices start drastically increasing.. thats scary to me. Fortunately we haven't seen that.. in fact just the opposite lol.
We need another big invention to go crazy over.
Seems like people get mad at every President no matter how they try to correct or improve the economy. It's hopeless in my opinion. I remember Jimmy Carter begging the Fed to cut interest rates. And they didn't and it cost him his job.
Personally with the kind of spending the government has done I was extremely worried about the inflation that it usually brings with it. When prices start drastically increasing.. thats scary to me. Fortunately we haven't seen that.. in fact just the opposite lol.
imported_doctordon
New member
You been to the grocery store lately?
imported_User Name
New member
Profit has always existed. It used to co-exist with corporate responsibility, where employees enjoyed the benefits of profitable corporations as much as executives did. Employees were loyal to their employers and vice versa. Nowadays, any chance corporate execs can move jobs oversees, cut jobs while still managing to pad salaries and boat bonuses, they do.
You call that "profit", I call it greed, and when it is backed by INTEREST FREE TAXPAYER STIMULUS DOLLARS, it should no longer be called "profit" or "greed" but "criminal".
Yesterday, I watched as a Canadian Soldier was taken by hearse along the "Highway of Heroes" in Toronto. He was fighting, not because Canada was attacked, but to show Canadian allegiance to the United States. He, along with every other Canadian and American soldier that died, died as heroes, but died fighting a STUPID war, decided by STUPID politicians.
Sorry, but slogans don't carry a lot of weight with me. Freedom has never cost, our governments lying to us to get us to fight wars and fear mongering about "fighting them there so we don't fight them here" type of nonsense.
Freedom was entrenched in our nations through our respective Constitutions. Thankfully, ours has not (yet) been eroded as badly as yours with the passing of the Patriot Act and other scare tactics employed by Bushie and his cronies (*this part has been said as a former US Civil Rights and Constitutional Tort lawyer).
imported_Flash Gordon
New member
Well, I will only say a few things. I think that at first Bush wasnt bad, however, when things started getting bad a few not so good decisions just made things worse. This, I feel would have happened with any other president too though. Now Obama...I dont like him. He has promised all these things and I doubt they will happen as he says. While I would like him to prove me wrong I just dont see it happening.
Now I also feel what is going to happen is not because of Obama, things will start to get better and he will receive the praise for it without doing much at all. This will in turn more than likely get us stuck with him again for another 4 years unless the republicans can actually get someone worthy of president to run.
Also, regarding how everyone talks so horribly about Bush, I say this...I will keep out of it and wait. It takes a good 50 years for something to be considered history and by that time he may be looked upon much better than now for things we do not yet know about. There are tons of things in politics we are left in the dark about, and parts of history we still do not know. Take watergate for an example.
All that said, this is a detailing forum and I feel this slowly turning into a not so good topic.
Now I also feel what is going to happen is not because of Obama, things will start to get better and he will receive the praise for it without doing much at all. This will in turn more than likely get us stuck with him again for another 4 years unless the republicans can actually get someone worthy of president to run.
Also, regarding how everyone talks so horribly about Bush, I say this...I will keep out of it and wait. It takes a good 50 years for something to be considered history and by that time he may be looked upon much better than now for things we do not yet know about. There are tons of things in politics we are left in the dark about, and parts of history we still do not know. Take watergate for an example.
All that said, this is a detailing forum and I feel this slowly turning into a not so good topic.
imported_doctordon
New member
This is a result of the social trauma caused by World War I. A sense of disillusionment and cynicism became pronounced at that time. World War I was known as "The War to End All Wars". Add to this the Great Depression (what an oxymoron) and you might understand why some felt the way they did prior to World War II. Especially if you had lost a family member or friend in the First World War.
Neutrality Acts were laws that were passed by the United States Congress in the 1930s, in response to the growing turmoil in Europe and Asia that eventually led to World War II.
They were spurred by the growth in isolationism and non-interventionism in the US following its costly involvement in World War I, and sought to ensure that the US would not become entangled again in foreign conflicts.
They limited the US government's ability to aid Britain against Nazi Germany. The acts were largely repealed in 1941, in the face of German submarine attacks on U.S. vessels and the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.
All wars are stupid and they have been happening since the beginning of time and unfortunately will continue in some form or fashion.
Mark Knopfler sums it up with these lyrics from the song "Iron Hand":
Well alas we've seen it all before
Knights in armour, days for yore
The same old fears and the same old crimes
We haven't changed since ancient times.