Detailing product toxicity testing

OK the first test is running now. Optimum car soap was chosen randomly as the first test.



All glassware was first cleaned with a 10% HCl acid wash, then rinsed extremely thoroughly with tap water, then triple-rinsed with distilled water, and finally rinsed with the control water.



I made 6 beakers for this experiment. A control beaker with 80mL of control water, a 1:1000 beaker with 80mL of solution, a 1:10,000 beaker with 80mL of solution, a 1:100,000 beaker with 80mL of solution, a 1:1,000,000 beaker with 80mL of solution, and a 1:10,000,000 beaker with 80mL of solution.



The control water is straight from our fishtank filtration system. The water goes through an activated carbon filter, through the fishtanks, and then into a sand filtration system. The control water was obtained immediately after leaving the sand filter.



6 Daphnia magna neonates < 4 days old were placed into each beaker, and the 6 beakers are being stored at ~72*F.



After 48hrs the test will be completed, and I will then examine all of the D. magna to determine mortality rates. A microscope will be used to confirm that the organism's heart has indeed stopped beating.
 
Paul, are you going to be using something like Dawn or another commonly available household soap to give a general basis of toxicity for all detergents as compared to the Optimum car wash?
 
White95Max said:
I've gotten the OK from my boss here at the University of Wisconsin Aquatic Toxicology Lab to run toxicity tests on minnows and Daphnia, testing the toxicity of various detailing chemicals. I've wondered for a while how harmful the various APCs and car soaps might be when they enter the river or lake where the storm sewers lead the runoff. I plan to test:



Meg's Detailer APC

PB's APC

Optimum car soap

Optimum No-Rinse

QEW

TOL Bubble Bath

PB's SSS

P21s Wheel Cleaner

Mothers Tire/Rubber Cleaner

303 Aerospace Cleaner
Click to expand...

[RANT ON]

Of much graver concern in Wisconsin and other great lakes states is the actions of MMSD and their dumping of raw sewage onto Lake Michigan. Have you looked at that lake lately? It is a turning into a slimy stinking pit of sewage. Don't get me wrong, I applaud your effort, but it is hard to see the effect of a few ounces of detailing supplies having any affect on the lake when MMSD is dumping (b)Billions of gallons(/b) (you are reading that right, BIG B billions) of raw sewage into the lake nearly every time it rains. The MMSD has dumped more than 13 billion gallons of raw sewage into Lake Michigan and local streams that empty into the lake since 1994.



So forgive me if I don't get too excited about the UW system spending my tax money to research a few ounces of detailing products. They amount to less than a pimple on the mountain of problems facing the lake.



Just a question, why not go after the big source of pollution, MMSD, with a University study? Why not look to see what all that raw sewage is doing to the lake? You don't suspect it has any affect on minnows and Daphnia do you? Why it may even have some affect on fish and (gasp!) people. Why not research what cities that don't have a handy lake to dump their waste into are doing when it rains? Why not research how Milwaukee gets away with this continued dumping that will affect us all? Where is the EPA? You do know that thousands of communities around the lake get their drinking water from Lake Michigan, right?



[RANT OFF]
 
jfelbab said:
[RANT ON]

Of much graver concern in Wisconsin and other great lakes states is the actions of MMSD and their dumping of raw sewage onto Lake Michigan. Have you looked at that lake lately? It is a turning into a slimy stinking pit of sewage. Don't get me wrong, I applaud your effort, but it is hard to see the effect of a few ounces of detailing supplies having any affect on the lake when MMSD is dumping (b)Billions of gallons(/b) (you are reading that right, BIG B billions) of raw sewage into the lake nearly every time it rains. The MMSD has dumped more than 13 billion gallons of raw sewage into Lake Michigan and local streams that empty into the lake since 1994.



So forgive me if I don't get too excited about the UW system spending my tax money to research a few ounces of detailing products. They amount to less than a pimple on the mountain of problems facing the lake.



Just a question, why not go after the big source of pollution, MMSD, with a University study? Why not look to see what all that raw sewage is doing to the lake? You don't suspect it has any affect on minnows and Daphnia do you? Why it may even have some affect on fish and (gasp!) people. Why not research what cities that don't have a handy lake to dump their waste into are doing when it rains? Why not research how Milwaukee gets away with this continued dumping that will affect us all? Where is the EPA? You do know that thousands of communities around the lake get their drinking water from Lake Michigan, right?



[RANT OFF]
Click to expand...



Hang on there buddy, the University is not spending any money on this "study" of mine. I'm supplying all of the chemicals, and everything I'm using here is already here. Fishtank system water, beakers, a microscope, petri dish, stirring rods, and Daphnia. They're already here. We don't buy Daphnia, we raise them. Same with the minnows. Our minnows come from our existing minnows.

None of your tax money is funding my study here.



I am well aware of MMSD and their disgusting habits during heavy rains. I'm a waste management major here at UWSP, so believe me I know all about MMSD and the BILLIONS of gallons of raw sewage they dump during heavy rainstorms. The problem is that MMSD has its storm sewers connected to the sanitary sewer system, and it all overloads when a heavy rain contributes an enormous amount of runoff into the treatment plant influent. MMSD has been sued by the City of Chicago for their disgusting practice, and fined a ton of money by the WDNR. They have a giant storage system underground now to hold water so that they won't have to discharge raw sewage into the lake.

The last thing I'd want to do is defend the MMSD for this, but realize that during a flash flood situation, that billion gallons probably contains less than 0.5 million gallons of actual raw sewage, which is 99.9% water to begin with.
 
very good idea max, when youre done with your findings, ill let you know what i got and be glad to send you some subjects
 
I think I'll just run all the tests and then post a list in order of toxicity. One test is complete on Optimum Car Soap, but I'm going to run a second test on each of the products I test. Eventually I'll run several tests simultaneously, but right now I'm just doing one at a time in case I find some part of the procedure that could use a change.
 
dont these products get fully tested before being released into the general population anyways?



i think it would probably be more intelligent to analize samples of the product to confirm their makeup (make sure hazmat sheets and ingredients are consistant) and then further research those chemicals and how they react with various forms of life.



rivers and lakes are much more complex than a sanitized beaker of water so watching some minnows float belly up after being submitted to 10 drops of QD instead of 5 of QEW isnt going to tell you very much about their true impact on the environment.



i.e. ph level can be countered in wild while is unchecked in your test to list one example.



if your true concern is for the environment then maybe you should resolve to find less invasive and more accurate testing methods for your trials.. that way just figuring out how to test will be a battle won in itself.
 
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