Detailer fried my HID Ballast

C_Rock77

C_Rock77

Seeking the perfect shine
Well...I guess you guys are gonna tell me "If you want anything done right, do it, yourself." Yeah...yeah...yeah. I know. I wanted to get my car done by someone with some more experience with a rotary due to some bad acid rain spots and scratches I was having trouble getting out with the PC. I had someone recommended by a fellow "tuner" friend, and went to go talk to him. I went to his day-job and talked to him. He came out to look at the car and gave me a quote for the exterior and the engine bay. He noticed some scratches and told me if I wanted him to, he'd touch the scratches up for me if I supplied the paint.

I drop the car off and tell him to take his time. He said that was ok, and to just call him when I was back in town (This was on a Friday and I picked the car up on Thursday). I wasn't overly impressed, but the car looked pretty good. So, I paid the agreed upon fee of $75. The touched up scratches looked BETTER...but they're still pretty noticeable. I wasn't impressed...but eh...I'm anal.:notme:

I go to leave...and it's nearing dusk. go to turn on my headlights, and neither fire up. I figured it was a loose connection that I've dealt with before. I press the connection, and one fires up. I drive back around the corner and talk to him. He gives me the "I don't know anything about HIDs" stuff...and he's going out with his wife that night. I tell him I'll go home and track down what it is...maybe it's a connection. I track it down to a soaked ballast. Water came dripping out of the thing. Talked to him today, and he said he never saw it....that I didn't explicitly TELL him there were HID ballasts under the hood, etc.

Now...don't you think that the detailer should PAY for the blown ballast? It's blown due to WATER damage. The HID components are fairly obvious if one is LOOKING under the hood. You will notice the cables, wires, etc going to and from the Ballasts, Ignitors, etc.

What do you guys think I should do? :help::thanks
 
That's a tuff call I would see about getting something back maybe not all but a % of the money...you really didn't pay that much for the work, so how much are these replacement parts?

Or you could just chuck this up to experience and move on
 
Beemerboy said:
That's a tuff call I would see about getting something back maybe not all but a % of the money...you really didn't pay that much for the work, so how much are these replacement parts?

Or you could just chuck this up to experience and move on
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Replacement Ballasts sell for around $150 for the quality of the one that was fried
 
Is the "detailer" you hired a professional?

I wasn't overly impressed, but the car looked pretty good. So, I paid the agreed upon fee of $75. The touched up scratches looked BETTER...but they're still pretty noticeable. I wasn't impressed...but eh...I'm anal.
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For $75 I would not expect too much in the way of paint correction, and touch-up in my opinion never looks great unless it is done by a professional touch up process (chips away, aerocolors, etc.).

As for the balast, I think he should make good on it if he serious about maintaining his reputation. A few years back a burnt a small piece of trim on a Acura MDX and paid over $400 to replace. I was not happy about paying for it, but that customer still refers jobs to me and is still a customer himself.
 
C_Rock77 said:
Replacement Ballasts sell for around $150 for the quality of the one that was fried
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I hate to tell you this but it sounds like the quality of the unit was over stated because a true quality unit is water proof just for the purpose that they are outside in the environment.Plus you say you have an ongoing connection issue which could also lead to frying an electronic component.Usually If I have someone work on one of my cars I inform and show them where any specialty items are installed . Sorry to hear that it happened .Not trying to rain on your parade.But this stuff does happen. Plus how did he get water in the enginge compartment? I don't see were he did an engine detail where if he could have used a pressure washer to long in that area ?
 
rwisejr said:
I hate to tell you this but it sounds like the quality of the unit was over stated because a true quality unit is water proof just for the purpose that they are outside in the environment.Plus you say you have an ongoing connection issue which could also lead to frying an electronic component.Usually If I have someone work on one of my cars I inform and show them where any specialty items are installed . Sorry to hear that it happened .Not trying to rain on your parade.But this stuff does happen. Plus how did he get water in the enginge compartment? I don't see were he did an engine detail where if he could have used a pressure washer to long in that area ?
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Yeah...he was gonna do the exterior and the engine bay. There's not an ongoing connection issue...it's just that the harness where it plugs into the stock headlight harness can become unconnected if it's bumped. That's the connection issue, it's the plug from stock headlight harness to the HID harness (with the relay, etc.). It's not a power connection, it's more like a signal pulse.

As for the quality of the ballast...it's a Philips XLD-144...Mfr states that they're water resistant (moreso than the Gen3 ballast). They're out of warranty (over a yr old). So, I guess since this guy isn't going to make it right, I'm left paying for the damn ballast AND a detail that really didn't do sh*t that I was looking for.
 
First, let me express my sympathy to you and say that I feel for you. It's stuff like this that gives us (professional detailers as a whole) a bad rapp and really ticks me off. I hear stories like this all the time which weaken us all as a profession. Another case of "I got's me a bucket and towels so I'm a detailer." I get a certain satisfaction when a customer calls me for a job, I give them a price they tell me so and so will do it for so much less -- then they call me back and says so and so did it and now I got swirls, wax in cracks, doesn't show up on time or whatever.... Sory for wranting -- stuff like this truley pi$$es me off -- it hurts my bottom line!!

Anyway, as a professional, did he provide you with a receipt for the services performed, was he a legit business??

If he is legit, and he wont stand behind his work, or help with some restitution, a call to (if their is one in your state) the Bureau of Automotive Repair who might help in assisting in getting your matter resolved. I would suggest this only as a last resort though. If he's not, it's sad to say though, you're probably SOL...

I'll also add that I'm in agreement with Dean, 'cause as a professional I wouldn't even turn on my buffer for less than double that. For all others out there who may be reading this thread -- word to the wise some times what seems like a deal may not be a deal or some times the lowest price isn't always the best price. Also, (professionals) when you cut your prices below the fair market price just to make a quick buck and you cut corners because you have to, and you use cheaper products, all in order to honor these cut rate prices -- you're hurting us all!!
 
dr_detail said:
First, let me express my sympathy to you and say that I feel for you. It's stuff like this that gives us (professional detailers as a whole) a bad rapp and really ticks me off. I hear stories like this all the time which weaken us all as a profession. Another case of "I got's me a bucket and towels so I'm a detailer." I get a certain satisfaction when a customer calls me for a job, I give them a price they tell me so and so will do it for so much less -- then they call me back and says so and so did it and now I got swirls, wax in cracks, doesn't show up on time or whatever.... Sory for wranting -- stuff like this truley pi$$es me off -- it hurts my bottom line!!

Anyway, as a professional, did he provide you with a receipt for the services performed, was he a legit business??

If he is legit, and he wont stand behind his work, or help with some restitution, a call to (if their is one in your state) the Bureau of Automotive Repair who might help in assisting in getting your matter resolved. I would suggest this only as a last resort though. If he's not, it's sad to say though, you're probably SOL...

I'll also add that I'm in agreement with Dean, 'cause as a professional I wouldn't even turn on my buffer for less than double that. For all others out there who may be reading this thread -- word to the wise some times what seems like a deal may not be a deal or some times the lowest price isn't always the best price. Also, (professionals) when you cut your prices below the fair market price just to make a quick buck and you cut corners because you have to, and you use cheaper products, all in order to honor these cut rate prices -- you're hurting us all!!
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I agree My moto is you see me now or see me later when it going to cost you more for me to fix what the cheaper guy F--ed up !!! I tell them If you don't like my price I'm sure you will find someone cheaper ( so they think) Cause in the long run its cost a lot more .
 
I'll also add that I'm in agreement with Dean, 'cause as a professional I wouldn't even turn on my buffer for less than double that. For all others out there who may be reading this thread -- word to the wise some times what seems like a deal may not be a deal or some times the lowest price isn't always the best price. Also, (professionals) when you cut your prices below the fair market price just to make a quick buck and you cut corners because you have to, and you use cheaper products, all in order to honor these cut rate prices -- you're hurting us all!!
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Well said. I must admit that I have at times become downright rude with customers who immediately try to chew down my price, and give me quotes from the latest "mobile detailer" in the area. I always try to be polite, but its hard when a customer tries to get you to detail their car for a handwash price.

I agree My moto is you see me now or see me later when it going to cost you more for me to fix what the cheaper guy F--ed up !!! I tell them If you don't like my price I'm sure you will find someone cheaper ( so they think) Cause in the long run its cost a lot more .
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I agree. The cheaper guys usually don't stick around too long, after they figure out what they are making after expenses.
 
Im not trying to run up a debate here but getting down on a guy for charging half of what you do doesnt make him a hack. The community and welfare of the customers dictates price. In my area if I set my prices at $100+ for an exterior detail I wouldnt have cars to do. If you are a professional great, but the price you charge doesnt make you any better than another professional. With out seeing the car in person before and after how do any of us really know how good or bad the guy is anyways?
As far as the guy "doing right", why is it his fault that the part wasnt water tight? Im not trying to ba a d!ck about this, just throwing in my opinion.
 
OK everyone seems to be putting thier two cents in so i might as well also..

It seems that we just had a thread about some one burning a bumper(either that or I read it some where else) That person took care of it right away his fault no questions asked. NOW what if the car didn't start after doing the engine bay??? What would have happened?? We all know things can and will go wrong when washing engines bays this is way we have to be very carefull( or not do them) SO I do fell the guy should "do right" because he is the expert and should know what he is doing in and around an engine bay

will he most likley not he was paid in cash and is a hobbiest who wanted to pay it big..

you could always take him to....



peoplescourt1.jpg
 
Well...it looks like I'm left holding the bag on this deal. Paid for a detail that is about 50% of what I expected...and having to pay for a new ballast. I'm really pissed that the guy tried to put all the blame on ME for not POINTING out a retrofitted HID system. It's fairly obvious if anyone LOOKS at the engine bay. The wires aren't tucked like I want them to be, yet. The ballasts are in there...with wires running in and out of them. It's obvious to anyone that looks that they're electronic devices.

I came to find out that a pressure washer was used under the engine bay. IDK if that's what allowed the water to get in the ballast, or what.
 
bighappy said:
Im not trying to run up a debate here but getting down on a guy for charging half of what you do doesnt make him a hack. The community and welfare of the customers dictates price. In my area if I set my prices at $100+ for an exterior detail I wouldnt have cars to do. If you are a professional great, but the price you charge doesnt make you any better than another professional. With out seeing the car in person before and after how do any of us really know how good or bad the guy is anyways?
As far as the guy "doing right", why is it his fault that the part wasnt water tight? Im not trying to ba a d!ck about this, just throwing in my opinion.
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Good point that the market sets the price... However, using that logic, if I go to Po-Dunk Nebraska to buy a new car, is the price lower because the economy justifies it? I think NOT!! Minium wage is the same across most of the country, as is a gallon of milk, a dozen eggs, a loaf a bread, or the price of the materials used in detailing a vehicle (is a gallon of Poorboys cheaper where you live?). With cost of having a vehicle repaired at a bodyshop or getting an oil change or even a new set of new tires compareable, why should having a detail be any diffrent. Skilled labor rates run about the same.

If you are doing complete details at $100, and have a line out the door with customers waiting in line to get in that might just tell you something. However, add in all your expenses (like equiptment, gas, materials, water, phone, advertising, marketing, electricity, insurance, taxes, just to name a few) and you'll find you're working for near $8 bucks an hour?? I might as well go to work at wallyworld or micky-D's and then I wouldn't have to think or do half as much work for $8/hr -- Now add in the cost of a helper and, um, well, I see that profit margin shrinking. If I didn't have to be a responsible parent, pay a morgage and if I wanted to do high volume of work cutting corners using inferior products only focusing on the perceived income, I'm sure I could run around charging a whole lot less and be busier than a Sheit in Isreali bus stop. Heck I could even line em up and do 14 cars in an hour. And when I skrewed up someones car I could just say Oh Well.... 'cause look there's that line out the door waiting for my cheap a$$ prices 'cause it's what people can afffforrrd.... phhht!!!

Once again C_Rock77 -- I'm sorry your vehicle got messed up and I hope ALL of us here PROFESSIONAL or NOT can learn from what happened!!
 
You think you got it bad? Older 996 Porsche and possibly some early 997 that have HID lamps will blow the ballasts due to excessive static buildup from using MF towels over the headlamp area. It's been corrected now, but when these go, they not $150. Sucks to think just by wiping off the area you could damage the HID's.

Regardless, just get the new ballasts, and find a way to properly waterproof them. You're lucky he didn't start an engine fire if they were charged and then discharged due to short.

Why a HPW was used in the area unless the engine was really dirty is beyond me.

It just really sucks that there are those that can "walk away" from such a screw-up and not even think of offering something in return.

I do hope you get them resolved, then find a way to resolve this problem of a detailer.

Good luck!

Deanski
 
I'm just pissed off b/c I know how I am....if that happened on a job I did, I'd OFFER to replace the ballast. The LAST thing I need is someone walking around talking bad about me and MY detailing.

I thought this guy was really good...a fellow "car guy" recommended him. He said he'd been detailing for a long time. The guy really SOUNDED knowledgeable.

There were just some things that I didn't like about the detail, too. The touch up wasn't anything like what I expected (from someone w/ that much experience), it didn't look like anything was done to the trim, and the WHEELS had tire dressing on them. Nothing was applied to the wheels, themselves (as in a sealant).
 
He should have made some type of offer on the ballast but you are wanting a world class detail for $75 and grumping about it. Why were these "disappointments" not discussed up front? It would have taken all of one minute for you to ask questions about what was to be done or describe what you expected. With all due respect the guy is not a mind reader so take some blame yourself here.
 
There were just some things that I didn't like about the detail, too. The touch up wasn't anything like what I expected (from someone w/ that much experience), it didn't look like anything was done to the trim, and the WHEELS had tire dressing on them. Nothing was applied to the wheels, themselves (as in a sealant).
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Touch up work take a lot of time and patience. I personally don't get involved with touch up unless its a return customers request.

You paid $75 !!!

You want a real good exterior detail?

Do some resarch in your area and expect to pay for an experience passionate professional. Your wallet will be a little lighter, but your automobiles appearance will be noticibly improved !!!

I spent my morning removing compound & polish from every nock and cranny on a GMC Envoy that was "detailed" last fall.
 
holland_patrick said:
We all know things can and will go wrong when washing engines bays this is way we have to be very carefull( or not do them) SO I do fell the guy should "do right" because he is the expert and should know what he is doing in and around an engine bay

will he most likley not he was paid in cash and is a hobbiest who wanted to pay it big..
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I'm a hobbyist who details for a little extra cash here and there. I wont mess with an engine bay. I know I can turn out good results, but I wont do any more than a quick wipedown on anyone elses (other than mine). It sucks that this happened, but I'd say it looks like you're up a creek. Sorry to hear man.
 
RTexasF said:
He should have made some type of offer on the ballast but you are wanting a world class detail for $75 and grumping about it. Why were these "disappointments" not discussed up front? It would have taken all of one minute for you to ask questions about what was to be done or describe what you expected. With all due respect the guy is not a mind reader so take some blame yourself here.
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I've accepted that the detail wasn't what I was looking for. I've accepted that and moved on. The car looks good, but I pointed out some scratches, etc that I hoped he could get out. HE offered to do the touch-up. Being that a friend of mine recommended him, I got the paint and let him do it. I'm chalking not being happy w/ the outcome of the detail to experience.

The biggest thing I'm pissed about is the fact that when I went and told him about the ballast being fried b/c water got into it, he just kinda looked at me and said "Yeah...I got your text." (I sent him a text message when I tracked it down to the fried ballast and not a connection or wiring issue.) I'm pissed about the fact that he didn't even show any concern or look like he gave a flying f*ck that HE fried equipment that HE should've seen under the hood. He looked at me like I was stupid when I stated that I didn't realize he was going to use a PRESSURE washer to clean in the bay.

I agree that I shouldn't have expected GREAT things with him only charging that amount. I told him what I was looking for (Just exterior and engine bay detail to remove scratches and most importantly water/acid rain spots). I was having a hard time getting the spots out with a PC, and was looking for someone that was experienced with a rotary to do it for me. If he couldn't meet those expectations, he should've told me. But he didn't...the car looks OK, I guess...so, I was gonna pay for services rendered, chalk it up to a loss of the money paid for the detail, and move on.

I'm mostly pissed that he didn't give a flying f*ck that he fried an HID ballast...nor did he even offer to do anything about it. Just tried to flip the blame on over to me b/c I didn't tell him they were in there. Well, xxxx...you're DETAILING the bay....you'd THINK that you'd give it a LOOK before spraying the sh*t out of it with a PRESSURE washer! In the ballasts' defense, if it hadn't been a PRESSURE washer, it probably would've been ok. They're advertised to have some level of water resistance.

*Pardon mon francias....the more I THINK about it, the more it hacks me off...:mad:
 
Was out ther other day doing a couple of washes for a client... next to me was another detailer (mexican crew).
I noticed that they had tons of cars lined up...
The head honcho was going around the business park lining up the details.
This guy was charging 60 bucks for a full car polished detail (swirl removal and all). The guy using the buffer was using a dwalt on the super high spead with a lambswool pad (what are we still in the 70's?)
He was putting in more swirls than was already there.
Talk about giving us detailers a bad name....
There was 3 of them attacking each car. It took them about an hour a car. When they were finished, I could see tons of swirls where the sun was hitting.

The car will probably look ok for the about 2 weeks then the customer will flip out when they see the damage done....

you get what you pay for....

shoot for 60-75 bucks I'll clean your seats and carpets... thats about it.

NOTE: don't try to talk us down in price.. the good ones won't budge. The hackers will do it for less and leave your car looking worse off than it already was.
 
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