C. Charles Hahn
CCH Auto Appearance, LLC
Probably a dumb question but are there any major advantages of paste wax over liquid wax or vice/versa?? just wondering....
Defining the term aggressive.
- Thread starter C. Charles Hahn
- Start date
We're Here
New member
The one that sends me to the liquid (if there's a choice) is the possibility of getting grit in the paste tub. A good gust of wind and your 2-digit tin of paste is toast!
JasonC8301
New member
the dust in the tin, but if you keep the tin covered and apply the paste very carefully, it'll be economical and easy.
I personally like wax in paste form (Meguiars #26 paste, Meguiars Gold Class Paste, One Grand Blitz (well only paste available, and the Pinnacle paste waxes.)
Also extra/additional additives are needed to turn the paste wax into a liquid.
Just my 2 pennies,
Jason
I personally like wax in paste form (Meguiars #26 paste, Meguiars Gold Class Paste, One Grand Blitz (well only paste available, and the Pinnacle paste waxes.)
Also extra/additional additives are needed to turn the paste wax into a liquid.
Just my 2 pennies,
Jason
The thing I like most about paste products is the number of applications per container. Example: A 16oz paste will go A LOT farther than a 16oz liquid. I don't really think there are any huge benefits in durability of pastes vs liquids, just how many coats you can get out of each....IMHO.
Chuckmotor
New member
#26 and Gold Class are much easier to buff out when they are liquid. I have used the paste and the liquid for both of those, and I find that the paste takes a lot of elbow grease to buff out. The liquid drys better and wipes off easier. Also, the Gold Class is great to use with a PC and grey pad.
Though #26 and Gold Class are easier to buff out as a liquid, application is much easier with a paste, and a tin lasts longer than a bottle.
Though #26 and Gold Class are easier to buff out as a liquid, application is much easier with a paste, and a tin lasts longer than a bottle.
Paste Pros
-Generally higher carnauba wax content
-Finish lasts longer
-Use less product per application
-Wax closer to natural state in paste form
-Wax tends to stay on the pad’s surface and not soak in like a liquid
Cons
-Harder to apply than liquid carnauba (although some high grade waxes are easy to apply)
-Paste wax prone to cracking, so visually can be unappealing (cracking does not affect quality or performance)
-Often costs more to purchase (but cheaper per application)
Liquid Pros
-Easy to apply
-Often cheaper to buy
Cons
-Lower carnauba wax content
-Finish does not last as long as a paste wax
* Comparison based on Mothers California Gold® Carnauba Paste Wax (340 grams) and Mothers California Gold® Carnauba Liquid Wax (473 mls).
-Generally higher carnauba wax content
-Finish lasts longer
-Use less product per application
-Wax closer to natural state in paste form
-Wax tends to stay on the pad’s surface and not soak in like a liquid
Cons
-Harder to apply than liquid carnauba (although some high grade waxes are easy to apply)
-Paste wax prone to cracking, so visually can be unappealing (cracking does not affect quality or performance)
-Often costs more to purchase (but cheaper per application)
Liquid Pros
-Easy to apply
-Often cheaper to buy
Cons
-Lower carnauba wax content
-Finish does not last as long as a paste wax
* Comparison based on Mothers California Gold® Carnauba Paste Wax (340 grams) and Mothers California Gold® Carnauba Liquid Wax (473 mls).
bmerjorge21
New member
Personally, I just like paste wax. It's very traditional, and provides a Zen-like experience when applying it. The smell, the texture...ahhh that's the stuff!! 
As Jason stated, more solvents are added to liquids which in my mind decreases durability. Most importantly, Blitz is paste-only and that's the way it should be!!! :bounce
As Jason stated, more solvents are added to liquids which in my mind decreases durability. Most importantly, Blitz is paste-only and that's the way it should be!!! :bounceI really think it is personal preference. Some people say that liquid is easier to use, but I prefer paste as it is quicker to me and saves more product. Just dab the applicator onto the paste, and wipe it onto the paint. No need to keep pouring liquid onto the applicator.
However, if you like using products my machine, liquid is the way to go.
~bw
However, if you like using products my machine, liquid is the way to go.
~bw
imported_doug
New member
I like to apply Gold Class with the orbital - works it in, spreads it out nice and thin, saves time. Much easier to put liquid on the pad than paste.
imported_BretFraz
New member
IMO, the primary difference between the two is that liquids are best used when applying by machine and pastes are best hand-applied.
I guess the reason so many products are liquid is because they're cheaper to make.
I guess the reason so many products are liquid is because they're cheaper to make.
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
A forum member on The Corvette Forum asked about what was considered aggressive on a PC.
I hope my response there can be informative here.
Aggressiveness is a combination of both the chemical and the pad, as well as the technique being used. It is a general term for the amount of material (paint) being removed. Aggressive is also a relative term. Somebody who has a made his life wet sanding and buffing cars in body shop, the term aggressive is going to mean something completely different next to somebody is extremely nervous about messing up their baby as they hold the buffer for the first time.
Chemical- The chemical refers to the actual polishing or buffing liquid. Buffing liquids that use large abrasives (or a lot of them) are usually called 'compounds'. Compounds tend to remove more paint, in a quicker fashion, and are considered for 'more aggressive'. Very fine 'finishing polishes' tend to have very little cutting action, and are relatively non-aggressive.
Pad- Different foam and fingered polishing pads are going to have different abilities to remove material. Since a pad is a fixed variable (augmented by the chemical chosen), its aggressiveness is measured by how quickly it removes material (paint). On a PC/DA style machine, a smaller pad is going to be more aggressive than a larger pad due to efficiencies.
Technique- Technique plays a huge role in how aggressive a combination is. For example, if we take an aggressive combination (a Lake Country Yellow Cutting pad) combined with an aggressive liquid compound like Menzerna Power Gloss, but we apply it in a very non-aggressive method: Speed 2, no pressure, and 10 seconds of working time we will likely remove less material than if we used a very fine polish( Menzerna PO85rd) on a polishing pad (White Lake Country) but used a lot of pressure, slow arm movement, and speed 6.
In general, adding pressure increases the aggressiveness. Using slower arm speed in conjunction with a smaller working area (focusing more of the working time in a smaller area) will increase aggressiveness. And using a higher orbit speed will increase aggressiveness.
Most polishes feature diminishing abrasives, that is they only remain 'active' for a certain amount of time. While continuing to polish after the polish is non longer active (exhausted) will still remove some material (because of the pad/remaining abrasives) it isn't really enough to qualify. However some polishes (such as Meguiar's M105/M205) feature non-diminishing abrasives that will continue to cut over time. They don't break down or lose effectiveness as quickly. In the case of these polishes working time makes a big difference in the total amount of material removed.
Paint Type-The type of paint/clear coat you are working on also plays a big role on how aggressive the action you get its. Rubbing your finger on a diamond (hard paint) isn't going to do much, even after years and years of rubbing. You might work your finger to the bone, but the diamond is fine. However if you swipe your finger across butter (soft paint) you can cut right into it one first pass. Corvette's (C5/C6's) tend to have very hard paint.
Here are some general guidlines.
Aggressive Polishing Liquids.
Meguiar's M105
Menzerna Power Gloss
Optimum Hyper Compound
Moderate Polishing Liquids.
Meguiar's M86
Menzerna Super Intensive Polish
Menzerna Intensive Polish
Menzerna Power Finish
Optimum Hyper Polish
Fine Polishing Liquids
Meguiar's M205
Menzerna Super Finish (PO106fa)
Menzerna PO85rd
Aggressive Polishing Pads (for a DA)
Surfbuff DA Pads
Lake Country Yellow Cutting Pad
Lake Country H20 Cyan Cutting Pad
Meguiar's MFCD (Microfiber Cutting Disk)
Meguiar's Softbuff2.0 Cutting Pad
Moderate Polishing Pads
Lake Country Orange Power Foam Cutting Pads
Lake Country H20 Tangerine Polishing Pads
Lake Country White Polishing Pads
Meguiar's MFFD (Microfiber Finishing Disk)
Meguiar's Softbuff 2.0 Polishing Pad
Final Polishing/Finishing/Glazing Plads
Lake Country Green Euro Polishing Pad
Lake Country H20 Crimson Finishing Pad
Lake Country Black Finishing Pad
Lake Country Red Finishing Pad
Lake Country Gold Concours Pad
Meguiar's Softbuff 2.0 Finishing Pad
In terms of techniques:
More aggressive
Less Aggressive
I hope my response there can be informative here.
Aggressiveness is a combination of both the chemical and the pad, as well as the technique being used. It is a general term for the amount of material (paint) being removed. Aggressive is also a relative term. Somebody who has a made his life wet sanding and buffing cars in body shop, the term aggressive is going to mean something completely different next to somebody is extremely nervous about messing up their baby as they hold the buffer for the first time.
Chemical- The chemical refers to the actual polishing or buffing liquid. Buffing liquids that use large abrasives (or a lot of them) are usually called 'compounds'. Compounds tend to remove more paint, in a quicker fashion, and are considered for 'more aggressive'. Very fine 'finishing polishes' tend to have very little cutting action, and are relatively non-aggressive.
Pad- Different foam and fingered polishing pads are going to have different abilities to remove material. Since a pad is a fixed variable (augmented by the chemical chosen), its aggressiveness is measured by how quickly it removes material (paint). On a PC/DA style machine, a smaller pad is going to be more aggressive than a larger pad due to efficiencies.
Technique- Technique plays a huge role in how aggressive a combination is. For example, if we take an aggressive combination (a Lake Country Yellow Cutting pad) combined with an aggressive liquid compound like Menzerna Power Gloss, but we apply it in a very non-aggressive method: Speed 2, no pressure, and 10 seconds of working time we will likely remove less material than if we used a very fine polish( Menzerna PO85rd) on a polishing pad (White Lake Country) but used a lot of pressure, slow arm movement, and speed 6.
In general, adding pressure increases the aggressiveness. Using slower arm speed in conjunction with a smaller working area (focusing more of the working time in a smaller area) will increase aggressiveness. And using a higher orbit speed will increase aggressiveness.
Most polishes feature diminishing abrasives, that is they only remain 'active' for a certain amount of time. While continuing to polish after the polish is non longer active (exhausted) will still remove some material (because of the pad/remaining abrasives) it isn't really enough to qualify. However some polishes (such as Meguiar's M105/M205) feature non-diminishing abrasives that will continue to cut over time. They don't break down or lose effectiveness as quickly. In the case of these polishes working time makes a big difference in the total amount of material removed.
Paint Type-The type of paint/clear coat you are working on also plays a big role on how aggressive the action you get its. Rubbing your finger on a diamond (hard paint) isn't going to do much, even after years and years of rubbing. You might work your finger to the bone, but the diamond is fine. However if you swipe your finger across butter (soft paint) you can cut right into it one first pass. Corvette's (C5/C6's) tend to have very hard paint.
Here are some general guidlines.
Aggressive Polishing Liquids.
Meguiar's M105
Menzerna Power Gloss
Optimum Hyper Compound
Moderate Polishing Liquids.
Meguiar's M86
Menzerna Super Intensive Polish
Menzerna Intensive Polish
Menzerna Power Finish
Optimum Hyper Polish
Fine Polishing Liquids
Meguiar's M205
Menzerna Super Finish (PO106fa)
Menzerna PO85rd
Aggressive Polishing Pads (for a DA)
Surfbuff DA Pads
Lake Country Yellow Cutting Pad
Lake Country H20 Cyan Cutting Pad
Meguiar's MFCD (Microfiber Cutting Disk)
Meguiar's Softbuff2.0 Cutting Pad
Moderate Polishing Pads
Lake Country Orange Power Foam Cutting Pads
Lake Country H20 Tangerine Polishing Pads
Lake Country White Polishing Pads
Meguiar's MFFD (Microfiber Finishing Disk)
Meguiar's Softbuff 2.0 Polishing Pad
Final Polishing/Finishing/Glazing Plads
Lake Country Green Euro Polishing Pad
Lake Country H20 Crimson Finishing Pad
Lake Country Black Finishing Pad
Lake Country Red Finishing Pad
Lake Country Gold Concours Pad
Meguiar's Softbuff 2.0 Finishing Pad
In terms of techniques:
More aggressive
- Higher speed
- Increased Down Pressure
- Smaller Pads
- Slower Arm Speed
- Smaller Working Section
Less Aggressive
- Lower Orbit Speed
- Low Pressure
- Larger Pads
- Shorter Work Times
- Faster Arm Speed
- Larger Work Section
imported_juliom2
New member
Great!!! I had an idea than maybe a graphic chart will eventually could be set but; with so many variables is almost impossible to truly canalize all the data on a VS graphic chart.
Folks this data IMO, is one of the most important papers out there.
Theres so much into the gathering of this info.
Maestro Todd Helme, Thanks!!
Bella Macchina has proven to be a lab for this study and I'm pretty sure that only a great deal of thought, trial and error and uncountable hours of labor has lead to come to these conclusions.
Thank you for gathering and sharing this info.
Great help!!
:wizard:
Folks this data IMO, is one of the most important papers out there.
Theres so much into the gathering of this info.
Maestro Todd Helme, Thanks!!
Bella Macchina has proven to be a lab for this study and I'm pretty sure that only a great deal of thought, trial and error and uncountable hours of labor has lead to come to these conclusions.
Thank you for gathering and sharing this info.
Great help!!
:wizard:
Paul Sparks
New member
Sticky
Todd
Wouldn't hurt to make this post a sticky.A ton of useful info contained there.
Todd
Wouldn't hurt to make this post a sticky.A ton of useful info contained there.
imported_RaskyR1
New member
Very good explanation Todd!
I agree that this should be a sticky too!
I agree that this should be a sticky too!
A
admin_old
Guest
Consider it stuck!
imported_Time2shine
New member
Great info... Im new to doing paint correction and all of your threads and posts are always so informative.I just recently ran into a cutting issue with M105 and a LC yel 5.5 pad with my 3401 and alot of pressure in small areas not removing all swirls and light scratches. Id say about 70% removed. Would you recommend the Surbuf pads or Megs MFCD. Thanks.