dawn liquid dishwasher soap

maccini said:
OK, quick question ... I know this post is a little old .... Does Ethyl Alcohol (ETHANOL) strip car wax? If so, Dawn will. I just looked up the MSDS of Dawn Dish-washing Liquid and looked at the ingredients. Just do a search for MSDS and Dawn and you can download a pdf file. I got my download from here ...

http://www.pdflibrary.info/download...RzL2ZpbGVzL2Rhd25fZGlzaHdhc2hpbmdfc29hcC5wZGY
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Come on now...you can't come to this thread and post proof and data. This is supposed to be a totally anecdotal debate. Lol
 
Among all the chaos of this thread, I have a question. What would you use if you wanted to strip the wax and sealants without using dish detetgents? Or is Dawn the best choice in this situation?
 

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Trouble said:
My painter who commands as much as $75,000 pr vehicle uses Dawn too. If anyone would know about dishwashing liquid damaging paint, I assure you he would
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Unless there's copious amounts of body restoration being done(including parts), a $75,000 paint job is far fetched in my book. Now a $75,000 restoration is a drop in the bucket though....

Regardless, my concern with Dawn is that it strips wax/sealants. I don't see how a painter would know much about this unless he is knowledgeable in this aspect of repair too? Most painters/body shops aren't at all versed in wax and probably couldn't tell you what the difference between a wax and a paint sealant is. I can see a painter/body shop not wanting to use any soap that has wax in it, and I'd bet they would use Dawn while the car is in their shop.

Trouble said:
I'm happy to report that my car is still beading after 8 or 9 Dawn washes and 3 months since my last LSP.

I thought I might offer to send 3 cans of this LSP I use to 3 different parts of the Country for you guys to test. Then I thought, why waste my money

If anyone would like to try this wax, drop me a PM, and I will direct you to the proper source
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I'd love to know what LSP this is. Please tell. Anything that can last 3 months on its own deserves the right to have public mention, yet alone throwing Dawn into the mix.
 
peachypan said:
Among all the chaos of this thread, I have a question. What would you use if you wanted to strip the wax and sealants without using dish detetgents? Or is Dawn the best choice in this situation?
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There are several options of you didn't want to use Dawn, which I don't see a problem with using for this purpose (I just don't understand using it for maintenance washes, but if a person wants to, have at it).

You could clay the car thoroughly, and that should remove any existing protectant.

You could do an IPA wipedown (maybe multiple, depending on how strong the existing protection is) after washing, but before polishing.

Some guys use the Chemical Guys Citrus Wash at heavy concentration, and are able to remove protection.

I have seen some people use APC's, such as Optimum Power Clean...I think David Fermani has used this prior to applying Opti Guard, so you may PM him for an explanation of how he uses it.

I am sure there are many more ways, but this should get you started.
 
I can't break it down like you did, but here goes one section at a time, Trouble style Weightlifter

David Fermani said:
Unless there's copious amounts of body restoration being done(including parts), a $75,000 paint job is far fetched in my book. Now a $75,000 restoration is a drop in the bucket though....
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My painter I know for fact fetches as much (if not more) then 75k for a frame off resto. I know of a Hemi Cuda that he did, where he was payed this much. I know this because the person who had him do this, is the same person who introduced us. I'm almost certain this price only included paint, materials and labor. I can double check that though if you'd like?

He only averages one or two frame offs per year (along with an occasional fender bender) I had the oppurtunity to work along side him for a few days back in March. Believe me when I say, he earns every penny he is being paid

He does super nice work that has been featured in numerous magazines including but not limited to, Hot Rod, Car Craft and Street Rodder magazines

He really does do super nice work David

I will respond to the rest of your question in a little while

Dinner is ready :-B
 
I'm back :-B
David Fermani said:
Regardless, my concern with Dawn is that it strips wax/sealants. I don't see how a painter would know much about this unless he is knowledgeable in this aspect of repair too? Most painters/body shops aren't at all versed in wax and probably couldn't tell you what the difference between a wax and a paint sealant is. I can see a painter/body shop not wanting to use any soap that has wax in it, and I'd bet they would use Dawn while the car is in their shop.
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David, with all due respect, I think the body shops you deal with (collision repair) and a justified auto restoration shop are like comparing apples to oranges. I assure you my guy knows the difference between a wax and a sealant

I never said it (Dawn) didn't strip wax or sealants, well maybe I did, but what I meant was, its not going to strip your LSP any quicker then a dedicated car wash soap. If any, its hardly measurable, much less on a single wash


Its aggrevating seeing ppl say that Dawn will ruin your paint, rot your seals and destroy your glass when I know darn well, this simply isn't true. I bet I've read 10,000 threads over the years and not once have I ever seen one titled "OMG...I Just Washed My Car With Dawn And Now The Paint Is Falling Off, My Seals Are Rotting And My Windows Are Ruined" surely, if this problem was as wide spread as many of you suggest, someone, somewhere would've mentioned this by now

Will finish my response later

The Pickers are on :-B
 
Never really understood the rave on Airstreams....They look like a rolling garbage can IMO :-B
David Fermani said:
I'd love to know what LSP this is. Please tell. Anything that can last 3 months on its own deserves the right to have public mention, yet alone throwing Dawn into the mix.
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David, the name is Karneet Yellow Paste Wax. It is distributed by Karn Automotive

If you will PM me a shipping address, I will have them send you a can on my next visit


Time for Pawn Stars and a Milkshake :-B
 
Trouble said:

My painter I know for fact fetches as much (if not more) then 75k for a frame off resto. I know of a Hemi Cuda that he did, where he was payed this much. I know this because the person who had him do this, is the same person who introduced us. I'm almost certain this price only included paint, materials and labor. I can double check that though if you'd like?

He only averages one or two frame offs per year (along with an occasional fender bender) I had the oppurtunity to work along side him for a few days back in March. Believe me when I say, he earns every penny he is being paid

He does super nice work that has been featured in numerous magazines including but not limited to, Hot Rod, Car Craft and Street Rodder magazines

He really does do super nice work David

I will respond to the rest of your question in a little while

Dinner is ready :-B
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I'm sure you know this (and not trying to talk down to you), but the work involved in a frame off restoration is totally different than doing a high end paint job. I've recently seen a restoration on a classic Ferrari that was over $500,000 and that didn't involve that much paint restoration. It actually won this years Cavilino Classic. It all depends on the parts you're working with, not so much the labor and materials. For example on a $75,00 paint job. Let's say the material cost is $5000. And that's super high btw. That leaves $70,000 in labor for prepping and refinish. Break that down into hours based on another high labor rate of say $100/hr and that's 700 hours to just paint a car. I don't care if you're doing a piano finish where you're sanding everything flat in between ever coat; that's a ton of labor(for painting). I'm sure your guy's work is outstanding. They are a dying breed in todays world.


Trouble said:
I'm back :-B



David, with all due respect, I think the body shops you deal with (collision repair) and a justified auto restoration shop are like comparing apples to oranges. I assure you my guy knows the difference between a wax and a sealant
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Keep in mind that my company insures alot of classic cars. Mix that with weathly S. Florida clients and it's a recipe for expensive repairs. I'm in all kinds of body shops that range from high volume work to hardcore Concourse restorations.

Trouble said:
I never said it (Dawn) didn't strip wax or sealants, well maybe I did, but what I meant was, its not going to strip your LSP anymore quickly then a dedicated car wash soap. Much less on a single wash, or in my case multiple washes.
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I guess it also boils down to how much of a concentration you're using and how long it sits on too. Ran into a car washer this weekend (with Todd actually) that was washing one of my client's beater car collection and he wash using Dawn. He also claimed that it didn't hurt the wax and that the cars still bead afterwards(and they did). I'm almost sure that because these cars get washed every week(waxed monthly he says) and aren't that dirty that he isn't using all that much by the suddsing he was getting. He was also dipping both wash mitts into the bucket and scrubbing down the whole side of the vehicle too without rewetting. (I redip as much as 2 times on a single body panel in comparison). I bet the level he's working at isn't stripping his monthly wax jobs. Fair to say??

On the other hand I've do quite a few cars that are beading like crazy at 1st and after I use copious amounts and allow it to sit on there for a long time, going around the car twice and in full sun mind you that when I'm done rinsing there isn't a bead left on the paint.


Trouble said:
Its aggrevating seeing ppl say that Dawn will ruin your paint, rot your seals and destroy your glass when I know darn well, this simply isn't true. I bet I've read 10,000 threads over the years and not once have I ever seen one titled "OMG, WTF, Look What Dawn Did To My Car" surely, if this problem was as wide spread as many of you suggest, someone, somewhere would've mentioned this by now
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Me too. I totally agree. Dawn (I feel) is totally paint and trim safe. Many have fell victim to the forum hype saying otherwise. :cornut:
 
Dang it. Its going to take me 14 responses to break this down :-B

David Fermani said:
I'm sure you know this (and not trying to talk down to you), but the work involved in a frame off restoration is totally different than doing a high end paint job. I've recently seen a restoration on a classic Ferrari that was over $500,000 and that didn't involve that much paint restoration. It actually won this years Cavilino Classic. It all depends on the parts you're working with, not so much the labor and materials. For example on a $75,00 paint job. Let's say the material cost is $5000. And that's super high btw. That leaves $70,000 in labor for prepping and refinish. Break that down into hours based on another high labor rate of say $100/hr and that's 700 hours to just paint a car. I don't care if you're doing a piano finish where you're sanding everything flat in between ever coat; that's a ton of labor(for painting). I'm sure your guy's work is outstanding. They are a dying breed in todays world. :
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You've kinda lost me on high end paint jobs being different then frame off restotrations, but yes I agree, a frame off is always the best way to go if you want it done right :-B

This Cuda I spoke of earlier was in desperate need of a frame off restoration. I don't know the exact number of hours spent on this particular car, but I'm quite confident it numbered in the hundreds, if not closer to a thousand (or more). The frame alone probally had 100 hours invested. The car had been sitting up for more then 20 years. Many of those were spent outdoors. All the numbers match, so my freind felt it was worth it. If not mistaking, I believe he told me he had around 190k invested. From what I understand, and under the right circumstances the car will bring 1 mill :-B

I will respond to the rest of your question soon


Trouble :-B
 
Me again :-B

David Fermani said:
Keep in mind that my company insures alot of classic cars. Mix that with weathly S. Florida clients and it's a recipe for expensive repairs. I'm in all kinds of body shops that range from high volume work to hardcore Concourse restorations:
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So Flo has alot more expensive cars then where I am located. I'm certain they have some great custom shops, and it wouldn't surprise me to find you in the middle of them :-B

I will proceed to the next part of your question now :-B
 
Howdy :-B

David Fermani said:
I guess it also boils down to how much of a concentration you're using and how long it sits on too. Ran into a car washer this weekend (with Todd actually) that was washing one of my client's beater car collection and he wash using Dawn. He also claimed that it didn't hurt the wax and that the cars still bead afterwards(and they did). I'm almost sure that because these cars get washed every week(waxed monthly he says) and aren't that dirty that he isn't using all that much by the suddsing he was getting. He was also dipping both wash mitts into the bucket and scrubbing down the whole side of the vehicle too without rewetting. (I redip as much as 2 times on a single body panel in comparison). I bet the level he's working at isn't stripping his monthly wax jobs. Fair to say??:
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I don't think washing a dry car with anything is a good idea IMO. Detail Chick asked earlier how much Dawn do I use? Not much, never actually measured, but I would say 1/8th of a cup, per 4 gallons of water. Plus, on average, I change out the water 3 times :-B

After I clean the wheels, jams and engine, I throw 5 mitts into a bucket and start at the roof and work down. If I do need to use one of the five mitts again, I rinse thoroughly. I do not use grit gaurds :-B

I also rinse often. Unless I am intentionally trying to strip the LSP, then I do let the solution dry onto the paint (briefly) (this should start a whole nother war. I'm not scared though) :-B


BTW...Who is this Todd fella you speak of :-B
 
We're getting there :-B

David Fermani said:
On the other hand I've do quite a few cars that are beading like crazy at 1st and after I use copious amounts and allow it to sit on there for a long time, going around the car twice and in full sun mind you that when I'm done rinsing there isn't a bead left on the paint:
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Yes, it sounds like you prescribe to my method of stipping LSP's. Letting Dawn bake into the paint does the trick everytime, but then again, so does car wash soap :-B
 
David Fermani said:
PM sent. I hope you're a fan of Hardcore Pawn??:ar!
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Don't care for Hard Core Pawn. That entire family seems very greasy to me :-?

I like the show with the grumpy old dude and the fat kid Da Rules!

The new show on Spike with the two blonde chicks is intresting as well :Snowman:
 
We used to do a fair amount of washing and interior detailing of passenger cars at the airport. When I first started the general practice was to use dishwashing detergent, usually Dawn. While I never found it to actually strip or damage finishes, I did find that even if you used it highly diluted by water, it was tough to rinse off completely and left water spots that needed to be gone back over with a microfiber and a spray-shine of one sort or another. After a while one of my supervisors found this stuff Zep-O-Shine and we started using it. It was a dual purpose wash/wax that had softeners in it and other checmicals that would easily remove heavy soils (even tar) without stripping the paint. It worked great for our purposes (which, again, were only to wash the exterior; the heavy detailing occured inside the vehicle).

[Removed link, sorry.]
 
JetDet said:
We used to do a fair amount of washing and interior detailing of passenger cars at the airport. When I first started the general practice was to use dishwashing detergent, usually Dawn. While I never found it to actually strip or damage finishes, I did find that even if you used it highly diluted by water, it was tough to rinse off completely and left water spots that needed to be gone back over with a microfiber and a spray-shine of one sort or another. After a while one of my supervisors found this stuff and we started using it. It worked great for our purposes (which, again, were only to wash the exterior; the heavy detailing occured inside the vehicle).
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No direct links are aloud ^ Da Rules!


On a side note.....I was caught in a shower yesterday and my paint is still beading like crazy <:-P
 
Oh. Sorry. I'll remove that and edit the post to just have the name. I thought that since I don't sell the stuff it would be okay. My bad.
 
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