Cyclo vs Flex

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efnfast

New member
I've got a few marks in the clearcoat here and there that I can't get out using a cyclo with orange pads, moderate pressure, and Menzerna Power Gloss (or SIP, PG is the strongest I have that works well with the cyclo...never had much luck with 1z IP, or 105 on it).



Consequently, I'm wondering if a Flex has more overall correction ability than a cyclo and if I shouldn't buy one for those hard-to-remove things that resist multiple passes.



From my experiences, I'd say the cyclo corrects 95% of everything I encounter, but I don't know if the Flex can handle the last 5%, or if I'd need a rotary at that point? :confused:
 
I can't speak to the Flex, but I do own a Cyclo. The only instance where I've had success with the Cyclo doing actual correction fairly easily was when I used Meguiar's M95 and orange double precision pads. This is on my '07 F150. Prior to that I tried Optimum polish, M80, M83. The Optimum did next to no correction–not sure what this stuff is intended for; the M83 did a little better–a good product, and frankly didn't think much of M80 at all. I recently tried Meguiar's UC, and ime, it works pretty darn well. Not as quick correcting as the M95, but with my limited testing, it seems M83, M80 could be obsoleted in my arsenal. It seems to "finish" nicely.



I came to the conclusion awhile ago that the Cyclo is best for cars that do not need much serious correction, and it is almost a "do no harm" type of machine for personal car upkeep, not a day to day workhorse. It's just too difficult/time consuming to get it to actually correct to 100%. Maybe there's some magical combo for the Cyclo to get it to go that distance, but I doubt it.



Honestly, ime, I'd just get the Makita 9227, but keep the Cyclo for it's ease of use, and for the cars that don't need the serious corrective power.
 
We use a Flex and the Cyclo. Yep, the Cyclo, in our experience has little correction ability. The Flew, however, is just this side of a rotary. Aside from the vibration, I can't say enough about the Flex!
 
Okay, I bought a 3401. Really curious to see how it will compare during the correction stage. If it works out well I'll keep my cyclo for sealing and waxing.



Since I'm used to my over-glorified floorbuffer (hehe), what speeds are used for moderate swirl correction on the flex? I know to spread the polish on a low speed, but after that what do you normally bump it up to? 4?5?6?
 
Yes!! Sorry, we would use ou Flex machines at all the speeds indicated based on the pad/compound/polish combo.



As I mentioned previously, our only complaint of the Flex is the excessive vibration. you're gonna love it!! Caveat...though it does make quick work of most correction, there are some jobs that, IMO, you just can't do better than a rotary.
 
Thanks, I look forward to trying it in a few days when it gets here.



Btw, aside from masking off trim, is there anything to keep in mind with it? For example, be very careful around edges like you would with a rotary? (i've been spoiled by the cyclo and its 'do whatever you want you''ll never damage the paint' attitude, heh)
 
Yes, from what i've heard you will be amazed with the Flex after using the Cyclo. I was using a Cyclo when cars didn't need a whole lot of correction. With the two pads it was just hard to keep up with what I was correcting. I use a rotary 95% of the time and I love it, but after all the hype about the PC and Flex I decided to spring for one and see what it was all about. Just got my PC in the mail a few days ago and the next car on my calender was a Corvette(Hard Clear). I was truly amazed with this machine and what it can correct with the right pads and M105/205, so I can only imagine what a Flex is like. Actually, I wanted a Flex, but I figured I would try out the PC to see if I liked it. It's so much lighter than my Cyclo and I like the different speeds for jeweling purposes. The difference is the PC(and I'm sure the Flex too) is like a rotary as in you have to pay attention closely to your work, unlike the Cyclo where i would find myself having conversations with people and turning away using one hand. Now I will probably just use my Cyclo for LSP's because as I said you can do one handed polishing with it rather easily. Oh, I almost forgot; the Cyclo has been a reliable machine(never had problems with it breaking down and you can push it to the limits and it just keeps on going for years and years.
 
it seems like the gloss-it guys do some pretty serious correcting with cyclos... perhaps get in touch with them.
 
Same story here: The Cyclos are as reliable as sunrise but they only do moderate correction whereas the Flex 3401 can do most anything a rotary can. For that matter, a PC with 4" pads can do much more serious correction than a Cyclo too.



But man-oh-man do I still prefer *using* the Cyclos, I just fine them pleasant to operate whereas every other polisher I've ever used has been a less-than-fun experience by comparison.



And I simply *love* using the Cyclos for burnishing/jeweling. I probably like them even more for that than for LSP application/removal.



bullitt21- Heh heh, I wouldn't be giving in to distractions when detailing, even with the PC/Cyclos. For that matter, I won't tolerate distractions period. I'm not gonna have an "oops!" just because I wasn't paying attention to the job at hand. OK, OK...end of rant :o As you can tell I'm no fun at all when I'm doing some job :grinno:
 
Why not step up to yellow pads for the Cyclo? Orange is good all purpose but the yellow and correct polish has a great deal more cut. With yellow pads and Poorboy's 2.5 it will remove some pretty bad markings/rids. I'm not saying it is a Flex or rotary but a medium pad and lightweight polish don't cut it (literally) for the bad stuff.
 
I still have my Cyclo. Just short of LSP, that's all the use it seems.

As far as burnishing/jeweling, the thought of using the Cyclo intrigued me on it...but with 85RD, I still prefer the grey foam and a rotary...



I tried using the Cyclo with 4" CCS grey pads/85rd and I think me using the cyclo was more about the time spent on using it versus a roto.



I love the balance of the cyclo.Just wish it had more umph...
 
Accumulator said:
Same story here: The Cyclos are as reliable as sunrise but they only do moderate correction whereas the Flex 3401 can do most anything a rotary can. For that matter, a PC with 4" pads can do much more serious correction than a Cyclo too.



But man-oh-man do I still prefer *using* the Cyclos, I just fine them pleasant to operate whereas every other polisher I've ever used has been a less-than-fun experience by comparison.



And I simply *love* using the Cyclos for burnishing/jeweling. I probably like them even more for that than for LSP application/removal.
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Absolutely - I'd never sell my cyclo in a million years either.



I'm just trying the Flex for the first level of correction to see if it can do a job better than 95%, with less time invested. After that it's onto the cyclo!



btw, have you used a Flex? If so, anything to watch for when coming from the cyclo? I'm just paranoid about doing something stupid and burning the paint, or worse.



RTexasF said:
Why not step up to yellow pads for the Cyclo? Orange is good all purpose but the yellow and correct polish has a great deal more cut. With yellow pads and Poorboy's 2.5 it will remove some pretty bad markings/rids. I'm not saying it is a Flex or rotary but a medium pad and lightweight polish don't cut it (literally) for the bad stuff.
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I have yellow pads (and wool, although I don't find the wool to be overly helpful) that I like to take out for severe damage. I have trouble convincing myself I need them wen I can get a 95% job out of orange.



btw, I wouldn't exactly call SIP and powergloss lightweight polishes. .... there's not many mroe out there that are more aggressive that work well with the cyclo (atleast imho)
 
efnfast said:
..I'm just trying the Flex for the first level of correction to see if it can do a job better than 95%, with less time invested. After that it's onto the cyclo!



btw, have you used a Flex? If so, anything to watch for when coming from the cyclo? I'm just paranoid about doing something stupid and burning the paint, or worse...
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Yeah, I got a Flex a while back because I simply don't like using my rotaries and I was hoping I'd like the Flex better (which I do).



The big difference is just the nature of the forced rotation; it gives the Flex a bit of "recoil" that simply isn't there with the Cyclo. I don't think burning/etc. will be a problem; IMO the biggest thing to watch out for is the more aggressive action flashing your product faster and thus causing drying/caking/etc. on the pad.



If you're paying attention and watching for the caking/etc. IMO you'll never come *close* to having some kind of awful "oops!" unless the paint is weirdly thin/etc. to where you're headed for trouble anyhow. Use some common sense with the Flex and you'll do fine. Just remember that if it's working "just like magic!" it's because it's taking off the clear that much faster ;)
 
OT but that is primarily my main concern about jumping onto the M105 ship.

I know how long or how much diminishing abrasives will be as opposed to it.



Even MORE scarier, unless I'm noticing this, is that there seems to be alot more *newbee* posts with M105 and orange pads, which to me is downright scary...



The harshest I use is white LC foam, and if I need anything more, PFW is the next level of aggression I'm heading towards
 
Accumulator said:
Yeah, I got a Flex a while back because I simply don't like using my rotaries and I was hoping I'd like the Flex better (which I do).



The big difference is just the nature of the forced rotation; it gives the Flex a bit of "recoil" that simply isn't there with the Cyclo. I don't think burning/etc. will be a problem; IMO the biggest thing to watch out for is the more aggressive action flashing your product faster and thus causing drying/caking/etc. on the pad.



If you're paying attention and watching for the caking/etc. IMO you'll never come *close* to having some kind of awful "oops!" unless the paint is weirdly thin/etc. to where you're headed for trouble anyhow. Use some common sense with the Flex and you'll do fine. Just remember that if it's working "just like magic!" it's because it's taking off the clear that much faster ;)
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Gotcha.



Btw, what speeds do you find yourself using? Is 2-3 to spread it in, then bump it up for 5-6 for the initial correction then back down to 2-3 after several passes for a final pass a good pattern?
 
chefwong- As I noted on another thread, you can use M105 without being all that aggressive.



And I find it easier to do "moderate but significant" correction with orange foam(and even yellow in some cases) than with PFW. The PFW seems to do aggressive work for me, period. Yeah, it's often *safer* for that than orange foam, but I can't dial it back a notch with the PFW.



efnfast said:
Btw, what speeds do you find yourself using? Is 2-3 to spread it in, then bump it up for 5-6 for the initial correction then back down to 2-3 after several passes for a final pass a good pattern?
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Noting that I haven't used it all that much so far...I've just been running it at speed 5, varying pressure but not speed.
 
If you ever get a chance, watch Joe at Superior with 105 and a wool pad. He can work anything and make it swirl free. We leveled paint one day on a dirty black car. We used about 3 products with different pads and so forth. His side with 105 and a wool pad was cleaner and more clear than our side and he did it in about a minute!



It's worth the money to "Roll With Joe".



Rob Regan
 
WCD said:
If you ever get a chance, watch Joe at Superior with 105 and a wool pad. He can work anything and make it swirl free. We leveled paint one day on a dirty black car. We used about 3 products with different pads and so forth. His side with 105 and a wool pad was cleaner and more clear than our side and he did it in about a minute!



It's worth the money to "Roll With Joe".



Rob Regan
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Don't suppose he has any youtube videos?
 
chefwong said:
Even MORE scarier, unless I'm noticing this, is that there seems to be alot more *newbee* posts with M105 and orange pads, which to me is downright scary...
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Beh, in about a 6 months, we'll be getting alot of "My clearcoat just failed :( , what should I do??" posts. :nono
 
Joe is an artist for sure, like watching Monet paint, a master at work. As far as the Flex goes save your money and buy a Dynabrade attachment for your rotary, way less expensive, and much less vibration, and infinitely more durable.
 
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