Costco MF better than Pakshak MF? review inside...

My view of the world:



Cheap = poor and inconsistent quality

Inexpensive = better quality for a reasonable price



When it comes to manufacturing towels there are many factors involved:

- Fabric: What type of terry? Is it Turkish (full loop) on both sides, French or velour (cut loops), or a combination? How many threads per inch, fabric width and yields, processing costs such as dyeing and bleaching. Where does the fabric come from? Transport costs? etc.

- Sewing and packaging

- Warehousing

- Customer service

- Marketing



Most importantly is "perceived quality." As in cars people seem to "think" items from a particular region are better than others. In actuality fabrics from the orient (China, Korea, Japan, India) typically have a poor quality consistency compared to Europe or the USA and are many times misrepresented by the manufacturer in order to get around US quotas. This is not to say that there are not high quality manufacturers there, it's just that quality control is more of a problem.



While an item may be cheap and perform adequately at first it probably won't last while a better product will last longer and be less expensive in the long run. According to a recent study there are a lot more Kias, Hyundais, and Toyotas broken down by the side of the road than there are Mercurys, Chevys, and Buicks.



Remember, "perceived quality" is not a true measure of a product. Also, don't always go for the cheapest, it will probably cost you more in the long run.



Forget the technical aspects of a product such as a towel or polish, leave that to the experts, go by what works for you and your method of work.
 
I agree
Forget the technical aspects of a product such as a towel or polish, leave that to the experts, go by what works for you and your method of work.
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Its ultimately your decision, and base it on what matters to you......
 
DF Towel,



I don't know what study you are talking about, but I seriously doubt that Mercurys, Chevys, and Buicks are breaking down less often than Toyotas.
 
stevet said:
DF Towel,



I don't know what study you are talking about, but I seriously doubt that Mercurys, Chevys, and Buicks are breaking down less often than Toyotas.
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The one released just today by JD Powers and others speaking of people's incorrect perceptions about auto quality. US makers get the bum rap for quality because their quality is as much as 75% better than the public "thinks" they are. The opposite is true for such brands as Land Rover where the quality is considerably lower than people think it is. Even VW and Volvo quality are very low compared to what people think they are. It's all advertising hype!



I'll take a 10 yr old Mercury over a 10 yr. Honda or Toyota ANY DAY!
 
Hyundais and Kias sure, but Toyota consistently wins reliability and long term dependability awards.



As someone who'se had old Fords and old Toyotas, you shouldnt take an old Mercury over an old Toyota ANY day lol Trust me.
 
Getting off topic..... But I have had both. I currently have a 91 Honda Civic with 145000 miles on it I paid $1400 for to beat up for the winter. Car runs great, is in decent shape still and has never had a major repair by the records I have for it. Also, when I was younger I bought a 10 yo Ford van for with a straight 6 and 260000 miles. It wasnt trouble free, but was still running long after I sold.
 
There are exceptions to every rule, so nobody is going to win this debate about Toyotas over GM, etc. However, do a web search and you'll find the 100,000 mile club for Toyota p/u's. This is on original engines. There are several members with over 1 million miles. And many more at over 1/2 million. Find me some American made vehicles with those kinds of mileage without a rebuild, and I'll build American.
 
DFTowel said:
My view of the world:



Cheap = poor and inconsistent quality

Inexpensive = better quality for a reasonable price
Click to expand...



Generally thats a good way to look at some things, MF towels isnt one of those things. Like I said, unfortunately the vast majority of these MF towels are manufactured by a small number of manufacturers overseas and simply repackaged here. I'm willing to say "perception" is all your paying for with the more expensive towels from "premire" distributors. Besides my own experience, there are many many comparisons on this site to prove it. Not sure how this got turned into an american vs. import car debate but its a poor analogy for MF towels.
 
Avalanche said:
Generally thats a good way to look at some things, MF towels isnt one of those things. Like I said, unfortunately the vast majority of these MF towels are manufactured by a small number of manufacturers overseas and simply repackaged here. I'm willing to say "perception" is all your paying for with the more expensive towels from "premire" distributors. Besides my own experience, there are many many comparisons on this site to prove it. Not sure how this got turned into an american vs. import car debate but its a poor analogy for MF towels.
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agreed
 
Avalanche said:
...Like I said, unfortunately the vast majority of these MF towels are manufactured by a small number of manufacturers overseas and simply repackaged here....
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True, there are only a handful who market their wares to the automotive trade but my Textile Blue Book shows at least 500+ man made microfiber weavers and knitters world wide. Polyester micro has been typically marked for janitorial use and only came into automotive in the last few yrs but the construction has never channged.



The high end is not necessarily hype however. In the man made (polyester) microfiber end I've seen Pakshak and Costco and I can tell you without hesitation that the Pakshak is a better woven fabric.
 
"I've seen Pakshak and Costco and I can tell you without hesitation that the Pakshak is a better woven fabric"



Its also 400% more to purchase !

We can all agree, that you get what you pay for, however, thats not necessarily a bad thing......
 
DFTowel said:
In the man made (polyester) microfiber end I've seen Pakshak and Costco and I can tell you without hesitation that the Pakshak is a better woven fabric.
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Maybe. But is there an advantage from the detailing standpoint? My Costco ones QD, remove wax, etc. just as well as my PakShaks. They don't look as neat (perceived quality?), but I'm not decorating my bathroom with them.
 
All I can say is thank-you to guys like Ranney(PakShak), Ian(AutoFiber), Leo(DF Towel) and Patrick(Excel). For a person who very rarely visits places like Walmart, K-Mart, Target, AutoZone, Pep Boys, etc they provide an excellent service and source for me to get quality products without fear of differing QC. I order some MF's and I know they will meet my needs and arrive on my door step in a few days.

Personally, I would rather use an old wearing out quality MF for my dirty jobs than a lesser quality MF ( I have some PakShak MF's that still look like new and they are over a year old:xyxthumbs). That's just me. :nixweiss

Cost wise the difference isn't that great with everything considered ( time is ($$), travel (gas) and aggrevation

(priceless)). JMO
 
Myself personally, I'm more than happy to pay $2 a towel (still rediculously affordable) to Ranney or whoever to weed out lower quality microfiber for me that I'll be using on my $40,000 investment.



Nothing against the cheaper towels, but I'm not one to deviate from something I've found that works.
 
DFTowel said:
I'm not about to comment about either of the towels in question but what makes you think that Korea has such great quality control and China does not? I can tell you some real horror stories about Korean goods while my many years of buying Chnese goods (expensive silks mainly) has been relatively trouble free. Now, there are surely Korean mills that have decent quality control but a blanket endorsement of all things Korean is going a bit far.



FYI... the only supplier of that blue fabric for the Burgas Afghan women where forced to wear by the Taliban where Korean mills while mills in three other countries refused this business.
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How about this info from properautocare.com? Any truth to this?



1. The strands are not split. 70 to 75% of inexpensive Microfiber now coming out of Korea and China is unprocessed, non-split Microfiber. Unless you want a water-resistant material, unprocessed, non-split Microfiber is worthless! Many of you have seen packages showing a drawing of a snowflake-looking fiber with wedges around the perimeter scooping up dust particles. While this looks great it is a picture of non-split, unprocessed Microfiber! Processed, split Microfiber looks like a tangle of spaghetti ends. The reason for the abundance of this fabric is simple. Machines that produce the raw Microfiber thread can be purchased for under $100.000. The machines that do the splitting and processing of the thread into the Microfiber "hooks" cost over $1,000,000. Only the largest fabric producers in Korea can afford these machines and according to industry insiders, few of these machines exist in China.
 
Myself personally, I'm more than happy to pay $2 a towel (still rediculously affordable) to Ranney or whoever to weed out lower quality microfiber for me that I'll be using on my $40,000 investment.
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I couldn't agree more. I will save all my cheap MF's for door jambs and wheel cleaning. :up
 
III said:
...Any truth to this?...
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I really donn't know why all this info is so important to the end user, all you need to know is if the product performs to your satisfaction. Why is everyone so concerned what country has what machines? It's all a lot of sales hype anyway. And Korea and China are far from the only producers.



That being said...



All I will say is that a picture is worth a thousand words, drawings are worthless. Here are two pictures of microfiber filaments under an electron microscope. You be the judges.

filament1.jpg


filament2.jpg
 
DfTowel, I'm not trying to argue with you and I'm not saying you're wrong, but when people put this information on their website it makes people wonder, especially to someone like me who is trying to learn everything he can about microfiber.

Again this info came from properautocare.com. (classic motoring acc.)





1. The strands are not split. 70 to 75% of inexpensive Microfiber now coming out of Korea and China is unprocessed, non-split Microfiber. Unless you want a water-resistant material, unprocessed, non-split Microfiber is worthless! Many of you have seen packages showing a drawing of a snowflake-looking fiber with wedges around the perimeter scooping up dust particles. While this looks great it is a picture of non-split, unprocessed Microfiber! Processed, split Microfiber looks like a tangle of spaghetti ends. The reason for the abundance of this fabric is simple. Machines that produce the raw Microfiber thread can be purchased for under $100.000. The machines that do the splitting and processing of the thread into the Microfiber "hooks" cost over $1,000,000. Only the largest fabric producers in Korea can afford these machines and according to industry insiders, few of these machines exist in China.
 
I got a question that is a little off the beaten path.



My MF towels and yes I have the Costco on Pak towels. I vote Pak but the Costco towles are an easy second I just don't dry them.

What is the easiest way to get little stems and flakes and pinestraw out of your towels? I can figure any way except to pick at it?
 
I got a question that is a little off the beaten path.



My MF towels and yes I have the Costco on Pak towels. I vote Pak but the Costco towles are an easy second I just don't dry them.

What is the easiest way to get little stems and flakes and pinestraw out of your towels? I can figure any way except to pick at it?
 
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