Collinite 845/925 Same Product?
- Thread starter vdubrick
- Start date
Ron Ketcham
Active member
Looks like "toast" the clear's resin system , the part that binds the clear together is gone.
The acids in the bird doodoo combined with additional water and heat have ate it up just like battery acids eats up your blue jeans.
Use the magnifer and think you will see the area is showing small cracks, bubbles, etc.
Time for the bodyshop in order to fix correctly.
Any compounding and polishing won't do it.
The oils etc in the products may make it appear that it is better, but once washed off, right back to what you see.
Sorry
Ketch and his little buddy
:bounce
The acids in the bird doodoo combined with additional water and heat have ate it up just like battery acids eats up your blue jeans.
Use the magnifer and think you will see the area is showing small cracks, bubbles, etc.
Time for the bodyshop in order to fix correctly.
Any compounding and polishing won't do it.
The oils etc in the products may make it appear that it is better, but once washed off, right back to what you see.
Sorry
Ketch and his little buddy
:bounce
imported_DanC
New member
That's my car.
Here's a little more information... it's a 2001 BMW 330Ci. It has been cared for religiously with Zaino, and when swirls become too much, I do a coat of 3M Imperial Hand Glaze. You can see more photos of the car at http://staff.pop3now.com/alee/bmw/new/photos.cgi
The paint is Orient Blue metallic.
The car was left outdoors in a dealer parking lot waiting for service for 2 days. On one of those days, a bird had his way with my paint, leaving a single splatter which was primarily composed of berries, no doubt leaving some serious acid residue. Worst case scenario is the bird dropping was on the car for 48 hours, about 16-18 hours of which were in the sun.
Since getting my car home, I have washed the area thoroughly, used claybar, used zymol paint cleanser, and other things in my detailing kit. I have not waxed over the area yet, since I'm presuming the area needs to breathe.
The area is smooth as glass, so my guess is what I am seeing is actually an acid stain in the paint.
The last time something like this happened, the stain disappeared by itself after 3-5 days. I am HOPING this will happen again, because the mark is very ugly.
However, I am actively open to any suggestions on how to make sure the problem goes away.
-Al
Here's a little more information... it's a 2001 BMW 330Ci. It has been cared for religiously with Zaino, and when swirls become too much, I do a coat of 3M Imperial Hand Glaze. You can see more photos of the car at http://staff.pop3now.com/alee/bmw/new/photos.cgi
The paint is Orient Blue metallic.
The car was left outdoors in a dealer parking lot waiting for service for 2 days. On one of those days, a bird had his way with my paint, leaving a single splatter which was primarily composed of berries, no doubt leaving some serious acid residue. Worst case scenario is the bird dropping was on the car for 48 hours, about 16-18 hours of which were in the sun.
Since getting my car home, I have washed the area thoroughly, used claybar, used zymol paint cleanser, and other things in my detailing kit. I have not waxed over the area yet, since I'm presuming the area needs to breathe.
The area is smooth as glass, so my guess is what I am seeing is actually an acid stain in the paint.
The last time something like this happened, the stain disappeared by itself after 3-5 days. I am HOPING this will happen again, because the mark is very ugly.
However, I am actively open to any suggestions on how to make sure the problem goes away.
-Al
imported_DanC
New member
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Ron Ketcham [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Time for the bodyshop in order to fix correctly.
[/b]</blockquote>
Thanks for the input. Is there any chance at all that the acids may still evaporate? I had another bird dropping stain that made a similar mark, and that disappeared on its own.
I think it's time to get myself a little tent to put over my car whereever I go.
I assume a body shop would have to wet sand and repaint? That would be a shame if I had to resort to that.
-Al
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Ron Ketcham [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Time for the bodyshop in order to fix correctly.
[/b]</blockquote>
Thanks for the input. Is there any chance at all that the acids may still evaporate? I had another bird dropping stain that made a similar mark, and that disappeared on its own.
I think it's time to get myself a little tent to put over my car whereever I go.
I assume a body shop would have to wet sand and repaint? That would be a shame if I had to resort to that.
-Al
Ron Ketcham
Active member
It is toast, go to the bodyshop and pay the price.
You have done all you can do, sorry.
There are similar photos of this condition on our site, www.autoint.com under the Tech Tips area. The text gives a fair explaination and if you wish, you may call on the toll free and discuss further.
Ketch
Wouldn't be right to use my buddy here.
You have done all you can do, sorry.
There are similar photos of this condition on our site, www.autoint.com under the Tech Tips area. The text gives a fair explaination and if you wish, you may call on the toll free and discuss further.
Ketch
Wouldn't be right to use my buddy here.Langley Interior Car Kare
New member
is responsible for it...no....if it was left out in their lot waiting to be serviced.....but i bet they will want to do the fix.....and we all know how well that goes after you wash it a few times they way we all do.....good luck!!
ps...what the heck kinda birds you got over there....if this isnt the first time this has happened.....
that car is gorgeous....i know its gonna kill you to have to let someone else fix it....where exactly are the bird bombs again...
ps...what the heck kinda birds you got over there....if this isnt the first time this has happened.....
that car is gorgeous....i know its gonna kill you to have to let someone else fix it....where exactly are the bird bombs again...
Ron Ketcham
Active member
The color of the base coat as it gets hotter than other colors and transfers back to the clear and expands it. This allow the acids in the bird dropping to enter the expanded clear.
Who knows what the bird had eaten, that is what makes the acids, of course some birds like a diet of high acid foods.
Then, it got dew, water on it and the day was hot later.
Rule of this in chemistry is for every 16 to 18 degrees F the heat increases above ambient, the chemical compounds present double in activity. The top surfaces(clearcoat) of that blue metallic could have gotten to over 200F.
The acids were carried down into the clear.
Probably had a high ozone day as well, (smog alert, etc) this added another, more active than the oxygen in the water, oxidizer.
Next day, dew or rain on the car, the acids are now really active, so to speak and then the sun came out and heated the acids again.
That will eat paint quicker than anything.
"Just like battery acid on your jeans, no problem until you wash them in warm or hot water."
Ketch
Who knows what the bird had eaten, that is what makes the acids, of course some birds like a diet of high acid foods.
Then, it got dew, water on it and the day was hot later.
Rule of this in chemistry is for every 16 to 18 degrees F the heat increases above ambient, the chemical compounds present double in activity. The top surfaces(clearcoat) of that blue metallic could have gotten to over 200F.
The acids were carried down into the clear.
Probably had a high ozone day as well, (smog alert, etc) this added another, more active than the oxygen in the water, oxidizer.
Next day, dew or rain on the car, the acids are now really active, so to speak and then the sun came out and heated the acids again.
That will eat paint quicker than anything.
"Just like battery acid on your jeans, no problem until you wash them in warm or hot water."
Ketch
imported_DanC
New member
There's no way the dealer will cover this for me. I pretty much waived responsibility by telling them "DO NOT WASH MY CAR" -- the thought of the bucket of dirty water they reuse over and over makes me cringe.
It's these damn city birds here in Philly. The combination of air pollutants, berries and birds that gravitate towards clean cars makes maintaining my car a full time affair.
I think it'll take me a few days before I surrender in defeat.
-Al
It's these damn city birds here in Philly. The combination of air pollutants, berries and birds that gravitate towards clean cars makes maintaining my car a full time affair.
I think it'll take me a few days before I surrender in defeat.
-Al
imported_DanC
New member
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Ron Ketcham [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>The color of the base coat as it gets hotter than other colors and transfers back to the clear and expands it. This allow the acids in the bird dropping to enter the expanded clear.[/b]</blockquote>
You would think that they'd come up with paint that was a little more resilient than this. 48 hours that were outside of my control ruined the paint on my $45k car. There's something not right here.
Were the older lead paints this bad?
grrr, just venting.
-Al
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by Ron Ketcham [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>The color of the base coat as it gets hotter than other colors and transfers back to the clear and expands it. This allow the acids in the bird dropping to enter the expanded clear.[/b]</blockquote>
You would think that they'd come up with paint that was a little more resilient than this. 48 hours that were outside of my control ruined the paint on my $45k car. There's something not right here.
Were the older lead paints this bad?
grrr, just venting.
-Al
A couple years ago I parked my BMW M3 under a tree at the San Diego airport. When I came back to it, five days later, it was covered with bird poop. The etching in the clear was worse than what I see on the 330ci. I was very lucky to be able to color sand the hood with 2000 grit wet and dry, then rebuff with 3M Medium Rubbing Compound, and finish with FI-II. After two more years our in the elements, the finish held up (no clear coat failure). I don't think I would give up on the BMW finish quite so fast. I would avoid the body shop until you can prove that the clear coat has failed and is delaminating from the color coat. You won't know this for sure until you try to level the damage.
db
db
imported_DanC
New member
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by DavidB [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>I don't think I would give up on the BMW finish quite so fast. I would avoid the body shop until you can prove that the clear coat has failed and is delaminating from the color coat. You won't know this for sure until you try to level the damage.
db [/b]</blockquote>
Thanks for the input. I'm on a road trip for the next few days which will distract me from staring at my hood for hours at a time, but when I return, I will re-assess the damage. I figure the paint on the car is very young (5/7/01 production date, 6/4/01 delivery) so I'm hoping that will work to my advantage here.
As I said in another post, my last bird dropping incident disappeared by itself after a similar kind of treatment that I gave this spot. We'll see where it takes me.
I'll keep you guys posted if it goes away, or if I find something else to take it out.
-Al
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by DavidB [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>I don't think I would give up on the BMW finish quite so fast. I would avoid the body shop until you can prove that the clear coat has failed and is delaminating from the color coat. You won't know this for sure until you try to level the damage.
db [/b]</blockquote>
Thanks for the input. I'm on a road trip for the next few days which will distract me from staring at my hood for hours at a time, but when I return, I will re-assess the damage. I figure the paint on the car is very young (5/7/01 production date, 6/4/01 delivery) so I'm hoping that will work to my advantage here.
As I said in another post, my last bird dropping incident disappeared by itself after a similar kind of treatment that I gave this spot. We'll see where it takes me.
I'll keep you guys posted if it goes away, or if I find something else to take it out.
-Al
debaser330ci
New member
hey alee i recognize your nick from bimmer.org....you're like an elder over there. welcome to this forum, it contains an outrageous amount of knowledge.
does the damage on your paint feel "raised" at all? you mention that it feels smooth, but it looks like the area is raised in the pics. My CR-V has 2 damaged areas on the hood that look for all the world like bird doo damaged areas, but the are raised. maybe this is the effect of the clear "expanding" as Ron K. mentions. very strange, i still am not sure what to do about it.
how many coats of Z were on when this happened? I don't feel so invulnerable now, i only have about 5 coats on mine and I know you've gotta have waaaay more than that on your car by now!
does the damage on your paint feel "raised" at all? you mention that it feels smooth, but it looks like the area is raised in the pics. My CR-V has 2 damaged areas on the hood that look for all the world like bird doo damaged areas, but the are raised. maybe this is the effect of the clear "expanding" as Ron K. mentions. very strange, i still am not sure what to do about it.
how many coats of Z were on when this happened? I don't feel so invulnerable now, i only have about 5 coats on mine and I know you've gotta have waaaay more than that on your car by now!
imported_DanC
New member
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by debaser330ci [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>hey alee i recognize your nick from bimmer.org....you're like an elder over there.[/b]</blockquote>
LOL! I'm there more than is healthy for any human.
The paint actually feels smooth... you can pass your hand over the area and you don't feel any irregularities.
I had about a dozen or so coats of Zaino. That too is more than is healthy. But then again, that's part of the obsession. Just wait till my neighbors see me wash my car in sub zero weather...
-Al
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by debaser330ci [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>hey alee i recognize your nick from bimmer.org....you're like an elder over there.[/b]</blockquote>
LOL! I'm there more than is healthy for any human.
The paint actually feels smooth... you can pass your hand over the area and you don't feel any irregularities.
I had about a dozen or so coats of Zaino. That too is more than is healthy. But then again, that's part of the obsession. Just wait till my neighbors see me wash my car in sub zero weather...
-Al
Ron Ketcham
Active member
The $10 diagnoist tool will tell you more than feeling the paint, speculation etc.
Just like a Doctor, a good mechanic, use the tools that are there to ascertain the depth of the damage, the extent.
ketch
Just like a Doctor, a good mechanic, use the tools that are there to ascertain the depth of the damage, the extent.
ketch
So basically it seems there is no product including 5 coats of Zaino that protects our vehicles from the environment? Only protects against pure distlilled water? I live near an industrial giant metro area(Motor City) that is full of black smoke expelling diesel engines semis, chemical plants(dupont), auto manufacturers, road oil from the thousands of run down parts delivery trucks, winter road salt, fertilizer run off from the offices and neighbors that detail their grass like a car, millions of pounds of asphalt and road tar from all of the reconstruction, and hundreds of well fed, full of poop seagulls from all of the restaurants in the area. Looks like it is time to retire from detailing and just forget about the car other than an occasional wash. I certainly don't want to spend the money on a new clear everytime a bird poops on my car at work and I don't see it for eight hours. 
Cybercowboy
New member
Before I knew crapola about crapola, I let lying bird bombs lie. I remember driving around for days with a bomb here or there and really not thinking anything of it. Then I would just wash it off, whistling. Apparently the birds here in the Ozarks are PH neutral.
waxman, I think that the wax, sealant, or any other paint protectant gives you plenty of protection against the most insidious of paint destroyers - UV rays, pollution, and yes, bird poop. But what do I know - I don't live in a city where the birds feed at a nuclear power plant cooling pond.
waxman, I think that the wax, sealant, or any other paint protectant gives you plenty of protection against the most insidious of paint destroyers - UV rays, pollution, and yes, bird poop. But what do I know - I don't live in a city where the birds feed at a nuclear power plant cooling pond.
City bird poop is worse than country birds, want to know why? They eat more crap, like McDonalds french fries left in parking lots. The oil creates more hydrocloric acid in their little stomachs, combine hydrocloric with the ammonia that they use for digestion and you have a wonderful acid etch.
Michigan is the second fattest state in the nation. We have a Mcdonalds, Burger King, Wendys, Coney Island restaurants, etc. every square mile!!!!You should see the size of the seagulls and black crowes around here. The size of owls!!!The rats are the size of opposums!! If you have starving animals just send them to the Metro Detroit area!!!