clear coat damage
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DETAILKING
New member
That now the consensus says that KLASSE does in fact sheet, but when I used it on my DAD's car and did not get beading and reported those results it I was slammed over and over......hmmmm......
Langley Interior Car Kare
New member
I have acres of grey plastic with very bumpy texture. You can compare it to a three day unshaven beard. HArd to describe other than if they were hard you could file your nails on them. Yeah think 80 grit sandpaper or maybe even 60.
I have used Zaino tire dressing and 303 Protectant. They are very similar and last through 2-3 washings, but heck I am a nutt so I re-coat after each wash anyway.
I apply using a terry cloth applicator pad. I apply to pad than wipe on. I then flip and wipe off excess. I have tried foam applicators but they grab the bumpies to much and I dropped one. The terry is easier to hang onto for me since they are rectangular.
I have tried Z2 and Klasse AIO last weekend on test spots. It was a major PIA to remove. It would collect behind the bumpies and I had to use brush to remove. So I just said fo gedda boud it and re-applied 303 this weekend. I alternate between Z and 303 depending on price and my supplies.
As for washing it I use a soft OXO brush which works the best for me. I have tried mitts but the fibers tend to shed on the bumpies. The brush makes it easier and is soft enough that if I hit the paint it will not scratch.
If you want more start a new thread so others will see it.
I have used Zaino tire dressing and 303 Protectant. They are very similar and last through 2-3 washings, but heck I am a nutt so I re-coat after each wash anyway.
I apply using a terry cloth applicator pad. I apply to pad than wipe on. I then flip and wipe off excess. I have tried foam applicators but they grab the bumpies to much and I dropped one. The terry is easier to hang onto for me since they are rectangular.
I have tried Z2 and Klasse AIO last weekend on test spots. It was a major PIA to remove. It would collect behind the bumpies and I had to use brush to remove. So I just said fo gedda boud it and re-applied 303 this weekend. I alternate between Z and 303 depending on price and my supplies.
As for washing it I use a soft OXO brush which works the best for me. I have tried mitts but the fibers tend to shed on the bumpies. The brush makes it easier and is soft enough that if I hit the paint it will not scratch.
If you want more start a new thread so others will see it.
spartacus_33
New member
The Black Fire discription says that if you use a wax topping on top, expect more water spots. You will turn sheeting into beading.
imported_nihoole
New member
Thanks alot for that info!That is about what I pictured for the sealant on my plastic, as I said just hitting it by mistake on the black part was very hard to remove.The Zaino comes off the rubber trim and smooth plastic easy.I wander if you had a PC you could remove it better?Maybe we should start another Thread we do not want to make anyone upset. Thanks again:up
Thanks again:upI think that just because a car sheets doesn't mean it "wets out" that is if you were to put a single drop on it the bead would completely break. If it does wet out then that means there is no trace of traditional wax on it (Klasse has some oil in it so it should work for Klasse too)
I think that cars that bead do sheet too, but maybe cars that sheet don't bead always, and if you paint "wets out" then it's high time to rewax.
I think that cars that bead do sheet too, but maybe cars that sheet don't bead always, and if you paint "wets out" then it's high time to rewax.
I like beading. That's partially why I stopped using Meguiar's 00 HighTech Wash. I used Mequiar's Polymer Sealant on my white truck and it looked great, felt slick, and beaded up the water real nice. Then when I would wash with 00 the water would sheet off. Something had changed and I don't know if the 00 was adding something on top of the wax (first guess) or stripping the existing wax off to cause the lack of beading.
Anyways if you like sheeting, and it does have its advantages, try the 00 High Tech Wash. It also works great at adding a shine if that's all someone was going to do was wash their car this would be an excellent choice. I use it on an enclosed Haulmark Trailer that sits outside and it looks really nice and shiny afterwards and the sheeting helps to prevent water spots which is good because I don't dry the trailer.
Anyways if you like sheeting, and it does have its advantages, try the 00 High Tech Wash. It also works great at adding a shine if that's all someone was going to do was wash their car this would be an excellent choice. I use it on an enclosed Haulmark Trailer that sits outside and it looks really nice and shiny afterwards and the sheeting helps to prevent water spots which is good because I don't dry the trailer.
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by waxman [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Nasty film? What? [/b]</blockquote>
Have you been following the threads that have discussed how klasse is leaving a haze/film on some of the board members paint, myself included?
This is the "nasty film" I am speaking of.
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by waxman [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Nasty film? What? [/b]</blockquote>
Have you been following the threads that have discussed how klasse is leaving a haze/film on some of the board members paint, myself included?
This is the "nasty film" I am speaking of.
The difference between sheeting or beading is surface tension. If the water molecules are more attracted to each other than to the car suface you will get beading, but if there is a loose attraction to the car surface you will get sheeting.
Give me a good looking car that sheets water!
Give me a good looking car that sheets water!
TheKingOfDETAIL
New member
Wouldn't SHEETING be better on most cars...? For example, after a rain storm wouldn't it be ideal for the water to sheet off the car rather than having beads sit on the surface which would be baked into the surface which leads to etching? Just something to think about.... 
I had just finished laying on a coat of Souveran over Klasse. My wife took the car somewhere for about 15 minutes and it started to rain for about 5 minutes. When I saw the car a few hours after she returned, the entire car was coated with water spots from the beautiful (but nonetheless non-functional) water beading that a fresh coat of wax gives. They come off easy enough with a QD, but if the water sheets and runs off, I would think that the water spots won't be a problem. On the other hand, if the water pools, and then dries, there may be several large water spots or rings instead of the usual "freckles". It will be interesting to see if that actually is happens....
H
H
imported_Adamah1
New member
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by YoSteve.Com [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>I think that just because a car sheets doesn't mean it "wets out" that is if you were to put a single drop on it the bead would completely break. If it does wet out then that means there is no trace of traditional wax on it (Klasse has some oil in it so it should work for Klasse too)
I think that cars that bead do sheet too, but maybe cars that sheet don't bead always, and if you paint "wets out" then it's high time to rewax. [/b]</blockquote>
Steve, what exactly does this post mean?
<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by YoSteve.Com [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>I think that just because a car sheets doesn't mean it "wets out" that is if you were to put a single drop on it the bead would completely break. If it does wet out then that means there is no trace of traditional wax on it (Klasse has some oil in it so it should work for Klasse too)
I think that cars that bead do sheet too, but maybe cars that sheet don't bead always, and if you paint "wets out" then it's high time to rewax. [/b]</blockquote>
Steve, what exactly does this post mean?
Because I work in the coating industry we deal with finishes that "wet out" that is if you place a drop of water it basically just lays there in an irregular very non-bubble shape.
Try this at home kids: take a drop of water and put it on a piece of plastic like a tupperware lid, so that it makes a bead. then dip a toothpick in liquid soap and touch the bead of water, then boom it wets out. That's the soaps ability to make water "wetter", or called wetting out. It's ugly on cars and it's what happens when the car is stripped of all its protectants (or a good test to tell if the car needs more wax).
So with the experiment we established that wetting out is not sheeting and is definately not beading.
Now sheeting action and beading are really more similar than we think. The mechanism is the same but the results are different. Both are due to the surface tension of the water. The only difference is the size of the water droplet. If it is small it beads and sits there, if the droplet stays big then all the water molecules pull all the other ones with themselves.
I really think sheeting and beading are the same. Spray a nozzle on my car you get water beading. Use the hoze without the nozzle and you get sheeting (and some beading). In either case the Klasse is clearly there. Now put some P21S on my car (as I did on my wheels that were Klassed) and you get complete wetting out squeaky clean yuck. That's what you don't want, and that's what you finish approaches as your wax starts to diminish, wetting out not sheeting. (hope that helps, just my theory)
Who know's maybe sheeting is step above beading, not only is the wax so hydrophobic that it makes it ball up in dropletts but it does so in a way that the droplets are maximized and so then the maximized bubble just falls off the car, which in theory is way better than non-maximized stable smaller droplets that just lead to little spots.
(remember attempt to answer the question, then expand )
Try this at home kids: take a drop of water and put it on a piece of plastic like a tupperware lid, so that it makes a bead. then dip a toothpick in liquid soap and touch the bead of water, then boom it wets out. That's the soaps ability to make water "wetter", or called wetting out. It's ugly on cars and it's what happens when the car is stripped of all its protectants (or a good test to tell if the car needs more wax).
So with the experiment we established that wetting out is not sheeting and is definately not beading.
Now sheeting action and beading are really more similar than we think. The mechanism is the same but the results are different. Both are due to the surface tension of the water. The only difference is the size of the water droplet. If it is small it beads and sits there, if the droplet stays big then all the water molecules pull all the other ones with themselves.
I really think sheeting and beading are the same. Spray a nozzle on my car you get water beading. Use the hoze without the nozzle and you get sheeting (and some beading). In either case the Klasse is clearly there. Now put some P21S on my car (as I did on my wheels that were Klassed) and you get complete wetting out squeaky clean yuck. That's what you don't want, and that's what you finish approaches as your wax starts to diminish, wetting out not sheeting. (hope that helps, just my theory)
Who know's maybe sheeting is step above beading, not only is the wax so hydrophobic that it makes it ball up in dropletts but it does so in a way that the droplets are maximized and so then the maximized bubble just falls off the car, which in theory is way better than non-maximized stable smaller droplets that just lead to little spots.
(remember attempt to answer the question, then expand
)imported_Adamah1
New member
Sorry never heard of wetter water. What you were describing with the toothpick and soap thing is because of surfactants which break the surface tension. Man you sure know how to explain things in the most confusing manner. 
Hehe.
Hehe.Langley Interior Car Kare
New member
stability of water molecules...
let me ask u...im trying to put this ito what it all means...ok....if i live in vegas...arizona..or cali....and yes louisiana...and it rains...i leave the water on there...spots...boom...kills my clear...etc...etc...but...its about 45 degrees out..it rains...i leave the spots on there and Qd the next day....what exactly are we talking about....this "damage' i would assume is neither good in the cold and worse in the heat...i mean the process will be accelerated....but are we talking 6 yrs from now my paint will not be exactly as i used to have ot no matter what i put on it...or more catastrophic damage........so like i was saying.....what exactly are we talking about when we suggest sheeding/beeding...whatever....what is the outcome of either....or neither.....i told you we all need more rest>>>> ........the purpose of all the protectants we put onour paint is too ..protect it...so if zaino/Klasse beed more....and BF sheeds more....the car is still protected and looks good.....how much more or less damage can occur with either/neither...
let me ask u...im trying to put this ito what it all means...ok....if i live in vegas...arizona..or cali....and yes louisiana...and it rains...i leave the water on there...spots...boom...kills my clear...etc...etc...but...its about 45 degrees out..it rains...i leave the spots on there and Qd the next day....what exactly are we talking about....this "damage' i would assume is neither good in the cold and worse in the heat...i mean the process will be accelerated....but are we talking 6 yrs from now my paint will not be exactly as i used to have ot no matter what i put on it...or more catastrophic damage........so like i was saying.....what exactly are we talking about when we suggest sheeding/beeding...whatever....what is the outcome of either....or neither.....i told you we all need more rest>>>> ........the purpose of all the protectants we put onour paint is too ..protect it...so if zaino/Klasse beed more....and BF sheeds more....the car is still protected and looks good.....how much more or less damage can occur with either/neither...imported_Intermezzo
New member
Steve, I agree. If I examine the beading action very closely on an area where I'm spraying with a good amount of force, there does seem to be some sheeting right before the water beads. Probably the same forces at work...sheeting & beading.