Classic rust action on my mazda3

[diericksetim]

How would you guys go about fixing this rust before it gets any worse? I want to repaint the whole car so there is no worry on that topic as a few people have mentioned to me.

I bought this car with the rust shown, I had a buddy of mine fix the rockers so I could get it on the road, but the rest is still sitting and getting worse. Now that I have a steady income on its way, I want to get this stuff fixed up!

Along with the rust I have a nasty scrap on my window that I have no idea where it came from. Fixable?

+ Some stone chips and some sort of bubbling on the hood.

How would I go about treating such stuff? I apologise, I know this doesn't have much to do with car detailing, but I couldn't really find more of a appropriate place for it, and figured the car gods of this forum may have some insight.

Thanks in advance!









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[GearHead_1]

What has been mentioned to you previouisly is what needs to be done to fix your problem. Chances are that nothing short of body and paint would be of any real benefit. It's just beyond any type of detailing fix and this same thread might best be served on a body and paint forum as opposed to a detailing board.

Having rust along those seams and eybrows is an issue and hopefully when you get to that place you'll get a body man that will take it to the point of a real fix and not just shoot paint over it. That likely includes cutting the rust out of those wheel arches and welding new material in. Even blasting it would likely come up short and the repair wouldn't be sound. The cancer lives on the other side of those wheel arches. It's a tough one.

If you don't mind me asking, what did your friend do to the rockers?

I don't know if your glass can be repaired but the product that 3D has coming out would be worth a look once it's available. Maybe you should get a hold of them and offer to be a Beta tester.

 

[diericksetim]

What has been mentioned to you previouisly is what needs to be done to fix your problem. It is beyond any type of detailing benefit. Truth is the sooner the better. Having rust along those seams is an issue and hopefully when you get to that point you'll get a body man that will take it to the point of a real fix and not just shoot paint over it. It's a tough one.

What would be the better route? A brand new body? Or having the rust professionally fixed?

My only concern is pouring a ton of money into my beauty and it breaking somewhere down the line to the point where I can't afford to fix it. She's already hit 250,000kms.

Any insight is very much appreciated,

Thanks,

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[Oldfordisbetter]

Yikes, i hate rust. What year is the car? To fix rust PROPERLY is a very time consuming and therefore expensive repair. And no body shops that i know of like to do it. Rust sucks but look at how the manufacturers make these vehicles and its no wonder how it happens. Stupid engineering, combined with cheap as possible components. For people living in the rust belt, it is crucial to keep your undercarriage rinsed clean to try and help prevent rust.

 

[diericksetim]

Yikes, i hate rust. What year is the car? To fix rust PROPERLY is a very time consuming and therefore expensive repair. And no body shops that i know of like to do it. Rust sucks but look at how the manufacturers make these vehicles and its no wonder how it happens. Stupid engineering, combined with cheap as possible components. For people living in the rust belt, it is crucial to keep your undercarriage rinsed clean to try and help prevent rust.

It is a 2005, and that's why I figured perhaps fixing the rust myself would be a little cheaper.

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[GearHead_1]

What would be the better route? A brand new body? Or having the rust professionally fixed?

My only concern is pouring a ton of money into my beauty and it breaking somewhere down the line to the point where I can't afford to fix it. She's already hit 250,000kms.

Any insight is very much appreciated,

Thanks,

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Well... a new body is probably out of the question when it comes to the value of the car. Replacing panels or just arches is going to be the answer. I had a not to disimilar situation when I was 19 years old. I had a vehicle I loved and it needed more body work than a bucket butt kid could afford. I was going to college during the day but signed up at a local trade school in the evening to learn a bit about body and paint. I did it for 2 semesters and learned a great deal. I had a great instructor that helped me and I learned to weld panels, pound and pull dents, a bit about fabrication, spread filler (very limited quantites) and learned a bit about body and paint work. I got to work on my vehicle as my project all while using their equiptment.

Doing something like this would insure a proper repair up to your standards and probably save you more than enough to pay for the classes. Not to mention those skills will serve you the rest of your life. I learned a some valuable lessons through this experience. Most importantly I am not a commercial body and paint guy, I could never have done this for a living. I found that I'm just to particular (read slow) to actually make money doing this. That said, I was always pleased with the end product and felt the work was done correctly. The other thing I learned was to make friends with a good body and paint guy and trade him your needs for mechanical work, those people are invauable and deserve everything they can get.

 

[Ccrew]

Yikes, i hate rust. What year is the car? To fix rust PROPERLY is a very time consuming and therefore expensive repair. And no body shops that i know of like to do it.

This. And most body shops don't want to because they have to guarantee for life these days and most will do their best to exempt rust repairs.

 

[Ccrew]

Replacing panels or just arches is going to be the answer.

Get a body shop quote and you'll see that this probably ISN'T the answer vs the value of the car.

To give you an example I just had my Dodge Challenger Pass side rear quarter repaired because of rust. It was a warranty claim, and I guarantee that most here can't get as low a price as Chrysler warranty will actually pay. The bill was $2120. I hate to say it? A rusty older Mazda really doesn't have any value except to you. Either get out of it or drive it until the wheels fall off.

 

[GearHead_1]

It's all relative and dependant on how much you love your car and you're probably right. I guess my point was it isn't like you can lift the body off of a uni-car and set a new one on.

 

[diericksetim]

It's all relative and dependant on how much you love your car and you're probably right. I guess my point was it isn't like you can lift the body off of a uni-car and set a new one on.

I don't love my car enough to spend over 2,000 to fix rust. I can put a whole new crappy plastic body on for half that price and fix my rust issue. Minus the rockers. That's still fun for another day.

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[diericksetim]

So setting rust aside, the mad chip in my Drivers window. Is there any good way to fix that? It's a nasty one. But I'm not going to buy a whole new window haha.

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[MiVor]

For a 2005 with 250,000 kms (155,343 miles) you either do the body work yourself or just accept that it's now a beater. You'd need to grind/sand the rust back to bare metal, chemically treat/covert any remaining rust, bondo, prime, paint...oh yea, and use a rust prevention/inhibitor product behind some/all of those areas. It would be a lot of work....but could take the car to the end of days... but give up the notion that it will ever look new again...it's just not worth a restoration. ALSO, even assuming it's mechanically sound, have a good look at the undercarriage - it may be even rougher than the body and there's no point wasting time and money on a car that's pretty much had it.

For the glass, there are polymer repairs that may work, but I'm uncertain of any DIY product.

 

[diericksetim]

For a 2005 with 250,000 kms (155,343 miles) you either do the body work yourself or just accept that it's now a beater. You'd need to grind/sand the rust back to bare metal, chemically treat/covert any remaining rust, bondo, prime, paint...oh yea, and use a rust prevention/inhibitor product behind some/all of those areas. It would be a lot of work....but could take the car to the end of days... but give up the notion that it will ever look new again...it's just not worth a restoration. ALSO, even assuming it's mechanically sound, have a good look at the undercarriage - it may be even rougher than the body and there's no point wasting time and money on a car that's pretty much had it.

For the glass, there are polymer repairs that may work, but I'm uncertain of any DIY product.

So she's a beater. Disappointing, but understandable.

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[diericksetim]

Time go start saving for a new car, any suggestions?

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[Accumulator]

Time go start saving for a new car, any suggestions?

If buying used, make sure it doesn't already have similar rust issues.

Get it rustrpoofed and get into the habit of cleaning out all the dirt/salt/etc. in those areas so the new one doesn't rust out the same way. That rust in the wells/around the lips is from not keeping those surfaces clean.

 

[Ccrew]

Get it rustrpoofed and get into the habit of cleaning out all the dirt/salt/etc. in those areas so the new one doesn't rust out the same way. That rust in the wells/around the lips is from not keeping those surfaces clean.

Not always. Sometimes it's inherent in the design. The same Challenger of mine that I referenced earlier was Ziebart rustproofed at delivery in addition to being new enough to have e-coat anticorrosion. The Challenger issue is injected foam they use in the sound deadening process. Jump in about 23:20 here, they're amazingly proud of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiVMvV_d1eY
There's also the issue of rustproofing applications actually clogging the factory drain holes. Everyone except car and rustproofing salesmen will tell you these days that rustproofing is nothing more than a profit engine.

 

[Accumulator]

Not always. Sometimes it's inherent in the design..

Yeah, that *can* happen. The front passenger door and the hood of my MPV both rusted out and I later found out it was a manufacturing issue that Mazda simply refused to recognize.

..There's also the issue of rustproofing applications actually clogging the factory drain holes...

Well, I *was* assuming they'd do things properly IMO that'd be a pretty awful job if they plugged up the drain holes (I've sure never done that). It might be like wetsanding...don't want 'em to botch it up or things'll be worse instead of better.

Everyone except car and rustproofing salesmen will tell you these days that rustproofing is nothing more than a profit engine.

Well, not quite everyone- Ron Ketcham..?!?where is he anyway?!?.. and I had some good discussions about the whole thing from products to procedures.

Some areas of some vehicles (e.g., the rear "barn doors" of my Tahoe) are in dire need of a good product that'll wick into the seams in areas like the bottoms of doors; untreated, salty water will collect there and lead to the oh-so-common rusted out lower doors. With proper treatment the water just flows (over the product) to the drain holes rather than soaking into the seams.

I'd be OK with one of the shops that does the ValuGard rustproofing (there might be other good ones, but I only know about the VG stuff), assuming again that I could ascertain that they do it right, the way they're supposedly trained to by the VG people.

I can say that I've been quite satisfied with all the rustproofing work I've done, but then maybe I'm a bit more careful than the typical guy doing the work.

But yeah, just letting a salesman/shop sell the undercoating without the proper research/etc. would be like taking a car to an unknown "detailer"/bodyshop/etc. and blindly hoping for the best- good chance things might not turn out well.

 

[MiVor]

There's also the issue of rustproofing applications actually clogging the factory drain holes.

Well hopefully it's done right. I had mine undercoated in the winter. I was pretty religious about power washing underneath and noticed the undercoating peeling. I had them redo it in the spring (no charge) after I pressure washed the heck out of it.

Everyone except car and rustproofing salesmen will tell you these days that rustproofing is nothing more than a profit engine.

I couldn't disagree more. I've lived in the northeast of upstate NY all of my 60+ years. Undercoating/rustproofing is not an option, it's a requirement unless you're gonna dump the ride after a few years. I live on a hill a few miles from a salt mine!!! You can bet the roads around here get a fair amount of salt in winter...then there's a thaw and salt water spray is everywhere.
Any intention of keeping a vehicle means due diligence. This goes beyond paint protection and must include rust prevention and routine maintenance.


As to the advice, I've come around to buying 'almost new' vehicles. My Buick lived it's first 12k miles as a Hertz rental car out of Atlanta. In great shape, I bought it for 10k less than a new one (with a lot of 5yr/50k warranty left). My 2013 truck (again excellent condition) had 30k miles and I bought it for about 15k+ less than a new one. So I'm convinced that buying pre-owned almost new is the way to go. I had to buy some extended warranty on this one, but still a better deal than new.
Now there's two schools of thought. Buy new (or nearly new), take good care of it and keep it forever. OR, lease a vehicle so you have a new one every 3 years (after all, if you buy with a loan and trade in every few years, you never really own anyway!)
The choice is up to you....just like make and model.

 

[Accumulator]

MiVor- I thought of you when posting to this thread.

 

[MiVor]

MiVor- I thought of you when posting to this thread.

I guess it depends on where you live and your life experience. I prolly wouldn't think twice about rustproofing/undercoating either if I lived down south or in California. But here in the northeast, it just makes sense...at least until they produce vehicles that just don't rust...either alloys or treated. I see too many rusty buckets not to take rust prevention seriously.

I heard tales of some electronic rust prevention gizmo but after a fair amount of googling, it seems it's right up there with tonics and snake oil!