Clarification regarding Trade Secret and Pinnacle Souveran

ZaneO said:
If you are referring to me, I am trying to be very diplomatic and polite. There is no malicious intent with what I am saying.



Have a great day :)
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Fair enough, I misunderstood I suppose, I just didn't want to see anyone to get in trouble, I hate that. I'm sorry.
 
As someone from the manufacturing end, I can tell you that unless you design your own bottles, there are limited choices on bottles. When you have to have specific types (PVC, PET, HDPE, etc.), and still keep a consistent look, you are bound to end up with the same bottles as other products.
 
bmax said:
I called Autogeek and talked to Jason, he says Bob from Autogeek and Terry from Classic Motoring have been frends for over 20 years. They both do their own thing, but they have been and are still partners with the Pinnacle line. Hope that clears things up.
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Honestly, professionals aren't going to tell you something bad about other professionals, especially when they are aware of the rate that information travels in this industry.



Contacting Autogeek about something non-beneficial to Autogeek is probably not the best way to research something.



I'm not saying that your information is wrong. I'm just saying that I won't take it as the complete truth/story.



If we believed everything that each manufacturer says, then every product would be the very best, last forever, etc. Do you see my point?
 
I think what Zaineo is trying to say is that asking Autogeek whether TS is made by Pinncacle or is an equivalent product to Souveran selling for $30 less is NOT going to get an objective answer. If they answered yes to these questions, how many more jars of Souveran do you think they would sell? After all, isn't TOL the only supplier for Trade Secret?



IMO, use what works best for you and what you perceive to be the best value.
 
As far as differences Souveran is much more white in color than S100 and the "new" Trade Secret. The old version of TS is slightly more clear than Souveran in the jar but the smells are nearly the same. Having used Souveran only a few times since getting it last week I can say that it does look somewhat deeper on black. On the other hand S100 and Souveran can not even compare. While I do like S100 it does not perform (depth wise), look or smell anything like TS or Souveran. Also S100 has a tendency to "chunk" about half way through the container, which I know TS does not and I speculate Souveran will not. All of the aforementioned products are composed from nearly the same range of starting materials with some probably being more refined than others. There is however a noticable differerce between all of the waxes when you look closely. Just my opinion of course.
 
I'm an idiot, but here's my idiot take.

:sosad

I use P21S on lighter paints and Souveran on darker colors. Because of my extensive testing. hahhahahahahahah!

I do ALOT of custom paint jobs. What's the best wax then! You guys where crying and screaming, because you know somebody that knows somebody that makes the wax, so what' the best. I'm around alot of business men that own multi million dollar businesses. They would never never talk negative about there competitors. Definitely tell there trade secrets.





THIS THREAD IS SPONSORED BY P21S PRODUCTS
 
audipower said:
I'm an idiot, but here's my idiot take.

:sosad

I use P21S on lighter paints and Souveran on darker colors. Because of my extensive testing. hahhahahahahahah!

I do ALOT of custom paint jobs. What's the best wax then! You guys where crying and screaming, because you know somebody that knows somebody that makes the wax, so what' the best. I'm around alot of business men that own multi million dollar businesses. They would never never talk negative about there competitors. Definitely tell there trade secrets.





THIS THREAD IS SPONSORED BY P21S PRODUCTS
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I guess you lost me there...:nixweiss
 
The Uncle said:
So, are you guys saying that S100 and Souveran are virtually the same product?
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I haven't tried S100, but I have tried its close relative P21S. Used on the XJS, P21s gave a totally different look from Souveran, and I greatly prefer how Souveran looks on that car. This was *not* a subtle difference either...I've used Souveran on it for maybe 15 years and I sure know how it usually looks ;) The P21s is more reflective, but with a lot less depth and "richness". I can see how some people might like it better, but I don't. But I *can't* imagine somebody thinking they're virtually the same product, at least not on that car.



FWIW, I also tried TS on it back when the whole "it's the same as Souveran" thing first got started back in, IIRC, the '90s. Again, it did *not* look the same as it did with Souveran.
 
ZaneO said:
IMO, so much of the detailing world is driven by what I refer to as the placebo effect.
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This is one of the smartest things I've seen posted here in months, it's so very true. Better watch it; soon people will start to say youâ€â„¢re condescending. ;)
 
BradE said:
This is one of the smartest things I've seen posted here in months, it's so very true. Better watch it; soon people will start to say youâ€â„¢re condescending. ;)
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Thank you very much!! People already seem to think that I am condescending :nixweiss
 
Accumulator said:
The P21s is more reflective, but with a lot less depth and "richness". I can see how some people might like it better, but I don't. But I *can't* imagine somebody thinking they're virtually the same product, at least not on that car.
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I think the difference between P21S and Souverian is the color and type of paint. I have a Metallic Melange paint. Which is a tan metallic that gets lighter in color in the sun but at night gets darker. I used number of waxes and P21S looked alot shinner than anyother. I use SG underneath no matter what and gives the metallic depth and shine. I don't car what people say that SG gives little shine, but with metallic it gives the depth you need to get that metallic popping.

I normally use Souveran on dark solid colors, but normally I do multi color paint jobs so I end up using P21S.



WHAT'S THE BEST WAX ON THE MARKET, MONEY NO MATTER!?!?
 
Audipower- I just meant to point out that the two waxes are different, but the Jag I was comparing them on *is* metallic paint ("Rhodium Silver", an old-school ss metallic lacquer). It's a very weird paint, and I have specific ideas about how I want it to look, so it's not really a better/worse kind of thing. I sure agree that Souveran is great on solid colors.



I use SG underneath no matter what and gives the metallic depth and shine. I don't car what people say that SG gives little shine, but with metallic it gives the depth you need to get that metallic popping.
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As for the KSG, I dunno, guess it's a matter of personal preference. I have pretty extensive experience with Audi metallics, having had about ten of them over the last 15 years, and I always have at least two silver ones for side-by-side comparisons. I just don't get the "pop" I want with the K twins, or at least it's not as blinding/dazzling as I can achieve with other stuff. When I strip the Klasse off and try different products, I'm much happier :nixweiss I don't mind how Klasse looks on Japanese metallics, but I don't care for it on the S-H paint that Audi uses. Oh, well, no problem, to each their own :cool:
 
TW85 HHI- No, you're not confused, that's what I said :D



But note that, again, the Jag's Rhodium Silver is a very weird paint (and not all that common, even on Jags). I'd call it a "metallic light gray" as opposed to a "true silver". But anyhow, I find the specific look that Souveran gives it to be exactly how I want that car to look. Just personal preference.



But along similar lines, my wife's all-time favorite on Audi Silver is Souveran (over the now-discontinuted Pinnacle Creme Glaz). I've used a lot of stuff on this paint, including Paste Glaz, and she just liked Souveran the best :nixweiss I quit using it on her cars due to the so-so durability, but even now, years later, she'll occasionally remark how *nothing* looks quite like that product did. While she admits my S8 (1Z polishes topped with UPP) looks "better", she'd still take Souveran. Note that she can spot the subtle differences between LSPs, at least on Audi silver, in an instant with no coaching/hints from anyone and she prefers the "carnauba look".
 
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