Choices, Choices, Choices.....

sal329 said:
I like the 4" pads the best for the PC. Might change my mind after figuring out the Kevin Brown method but for now I use 4" pads exclusively.
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I have a 5 inch backing plate and 9 css pads for it, can I keep those and just buy a 5.5 orange pad?
 
Dustn, sticking with the PC is a really good idea. Especially with Meguiars new products: M105 and M205. Those two polishes, a PC, and Orange, White, and (pick one of the following, as they are all pretty much the same) blue/red/grey/black LC foam pads will handle the vast majority of cars you're likely to see. I would think seriously about returning the yellow pads for orange ones. The yellow pads can cause some really nasty marring when used with a PC that is then *very* hard to remove. The orange pad is a *much* better choice.
 
SuperBee364 said:
Dustn, sticking with the PC is a really good idea. Especially with Meguiars new products: M105 and M205. Those two polishes, a PC, and Orange, White, and (pick one of the following, as they are all pretty much the same) blue/red/grey/black LC foam pads will handle the vast majority of cars you're likely to see. I would think seriously about returning the yellow pads for orange ones. The yellow pads can cause some really nasty marring when used with a PC that is then *very* hard to remove. The orange pad is a *much* better choice.
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Okay, I already used the one of the yellow pads on a customers car testing out the pad, you think ag will take it back?
 
sal329 said:
When $$ allows I would pick up 2-4 Orange 5.5" pads
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I'm going to as soon as a get my next pay check, I just bought a little green machine today for carpet and the meguiars 105 and 205 samplers 12oz from ads. But buying the orange pads are next on the list.
 
DetailnByDustn said:
Okay, I already used the one of the yellow pads on a customers car testing out the pad
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:2thumbs:



If you are going to learn on the job, please do so safely, for your own sake. A yellow cutting pad is just not the sort of thing you test on a customers car.



Personally, I venture that using a white pad, and M06 Cleaner wax would be the most useful in the long run. You rarely need anything more abrasive, and will have a surface that is waxed and ready for topping with something else (#26 yellow wax, or any other pure wax)
 
GoudyL said:
:2thumbs:



If you are going to learn on the job, please do so safely, for your own sake. A yellow cutting pad is just not the sort of thing you test on a customers car.



Personally, I think using a white pad, and M06 Cleaner wax would be the most useful in the long run. You rarely need anything more abrasive, and will have a surface that is waxed and ready for topping with something else (#26 yellow wax, or any other pure wax)
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With a pc? Ive used a white polishing pad with cleaner wax from autogeek on a lot on my customers cars over a year and a half with about 75 cars it works good but I wanted to do a little work with getting swirls and little scratches out of their finish.
 
DetailnByDustn said:
With a pc? Ive used a white polishing pad with cleaner wax from autogeek on a lot on my customers cars over a year and a half with about 75 cars it works good but I wanted to do a little work with getting swirls and little scratches out of their finish.
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There's a couple of questions about strategy you need to think about.



1. Are the customers happy with the PC applied cleaner wax? Are you happy with it?



Because in general this is the safest way to go for you. Any time you start getting more agressive you run the risk of hitting a thin spot in the paint, possibly burning it etc.



That could leave you with a very angry customer, and possibly leave you on the hook for a new paint job. That is expensive.



2.) For scratches and little swirls. Is it really worth taking these out completely, vs reducing them, vs leaving them alone, when you think about the cost in burned off clearcoat.



To get the panel perfectly smooth, you will need to reduced down to the lowest point of the deepest scratch. In the mean time you will have burned off alot of perfectly good clearcoat. Is that really what your typical customer wants?



Probably not, as they just want the car to look good, be shiny and be protected with wax. Most of them aren't aware that scratches are removed by reducing the paint.



IMHO your best bet is to reduce scratches by hand by dulling the edges/cleaning them and after that leave them alone. The final wax will happly fill them up and make them seem even smaller.



What makes scratches visible are the sharp well defined edges, and possibly any dirt trapped in the scratch. This is what makes pre-wax cleaner so valuable. It cleans out and softly abrades the scratch.



A quick dab of glaze will then form a thin layer over the scratch making the edges even less distinct, and then the final wax will flood the the scratch.



Note the 3 phases of the various multi step wax systems.



If you need something more agressive for a troublesome scratch, you could use some KIT scratch out or Meg's ultimate compound by hand to attack it. The Kit scratch out is both very cheap and IMHO quite good. Gentle though.



But even, then your goal is not to get rid of the scratch, but to reduce it to where the finshing products can take care of it well. Good hand technique is to polish 90* across the scratch for a while, then 45* L/R R/L for a shorter time, and then along the length of the scratch for the shortest time. Even if its not immediately obvious, 1 pass with scratch remover will improve how the lsp looks over the scratch, even if it might take 4 passes to completely remove it.



IMHO the key think is to focus on using a few products very well, rather than constantly trying to master a wide range of products, pads etc, many of which are mostly interchangable. It's cheaper too. :)



My $0.02
 
GoudyL said:
There's a couple of questions about strategy you need to think about.



1. Are the customers happy with the PC applied cleaner wax? Are you happy with it?



Because in general this is the safest way to go for you. Any time you start getting more agressive you run the risk of hitting a thin spot in the paint, possibly burning it etc.



That could leave you with a very angry customer, and possibly leave you on the hook for a new paint job. That is expensive.



2.) For scratches and little swirls. Is it really worth taking these out completely, vs reducing them, vs leaving them alone, when you think about the cost in burned off clearcoat.



To get the panel perfectly smooth, you will need to reduced down to the lowest point of the deepest scratch. In the mean time you will have burned off alot of perfectly good clearcoat. Is that really what your typical customer wants?



Probably not, as they just want the car to look good, be shiny and be protected with wax. Most of them aren't aware that scratches are removed by reducing the paint.



IMHO your best bet is to reduce scratches by hand by dulling the edges/cleaning them and after that leave them alone. The final wax will happly fill them up and make them seem even smaller.



What makes scratches visible are the sharp well defined edges, and possibly any dirt trapped in the scratch. This is what makes pre-wax cleaner so valuable. It cleans out and softly abrades the scratch.



A quick dab of glaze will then form a thin layer over the scratch making the edges even less distinct, and then the final wax will flood the the scratch.



Note the 3 phases of the various multi step wax systems.



If you need something more agressive for a troublesome scratch, you could use some KIT scratch out or Meg's ultimate compound by hand to attack it. The Kit scratch out is both very cheap and IMHO quite good. Gentle though.



But even, then your goal is not to get rid of the scratch, but to reduce it to where the finshing products can take care of it well. Good hand technique is to polish 90* across the scratch for a while, then 45* L/R R/L for a shorter time, and then along the length of the scratch for the shortest time. Even if its not immediately obvious, 1 pass with scratch remover will improve how the lsp looks over the scratch, even if it might take 4 passes to completely remove it.



IMHO the key think is to focus on using a few products very well, rather than constantly trying to master a wide range of products, pads etc, many of which are mostly interchangable. It's cheaper too. :)



My $0.02
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O Okay, I tried using a glaze followed with a polish on my corvette to try and get rid of some of the spiderwebing and small scratches but it didn't work as well as I anticipated (Just to note: the previous owners never had my car in the rain, so there wasnt many waterspots and scratches) :( I have meguairs scratch x in my arsenal but haven't tried it on my car, like you said it may require more then one pass on the pc.
 
Yellow pads leave marring behind that is pretty hard to remove usinga PC, unless the paint is rock hard. I have only used a yellow pad one time. I use the orange pad often and always follow up with a white pad.
 
sal329 said:
Yellow pads leave marring behind that is pretty hard to remove usinga PC, unless the paint is rock hard. I have only used a yellow pad one time. I use the orange pad often and always follow up with a white pad.
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Okay, thanks I'm glad I haven't used the yellow pad but once.
 
DetailnByDustn said:
O Okay, I tried using a glaze followed with a polish on my corvette to try and get rid of some of the spiderwebing and small scratches but it didn't work as well as I anticipated (Just to note: the previous owners never had my car in the rain, so there wasnt many waterspots and scratches) :( I have meguairs scratch x in my arsenal but haven't tried it on my car, like you said it may require more then one pass on the pc.
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Dustin, spiderwebbing (a very haze of superficial scratches) is a different thing than small scratches, which are different from big scratches.



IMHO You really want to ignore the idea of getting the car to a perfect show car finish. Show car's are either, new to begin with, have a custom paint job, or else usually had quite a bit of clearcoat removed. They usually don't get driven much, and therefore can afford to go around with thin though very smooth clearcoat.



For a daily driver, wearing down the the clearcoat is just bringing forward the day of clearcoat failure.



If you have gotten the finish to the point where it looks smooth glassy from 3ft by casual inspection, Methinks you are doing great. Your customers will be well pleased and you should be well pleased.



After you've washed, pre-wax cleaner, and clayed, most cars are going to look great. Very smooth and shiny. Then the goal is to lock in that cleanliness with a protective wax (wax + glaze), and then give it ultimate shine with a blast of QD spray.



From a time/money perspective, Clay, Pre-Wax cleaner (on a white pad), spot treatment with scratch remover, Cleaner Wax (on a different white pad), Top coat, QD wipedown is going to be much faster, use fewer expensive chemicals, and get you more consistent results.



Between the pre-wax cleaner, cleaning wax, and white pads you should have plenty of cleaning going on. Yet at the same time very little risk of marring or damaging the paint.



Within the mother's system you could top off with reflections top coat or the pure carnauba. Application will be very fast, because the pure waxes will mix nicely with the existing wax layer.



You could charge extra for this service (one coat vs two coats of wax). I wouldn't charge too much more, because most customers have no idea how much better their car will look with a top coat of pure wax on it.



As for your corvette, its your car, so do what you want. You should be happy that the finish is in great condition. Personally I'm going to use harsh abrasives by hand only.



You might want to snap down to autozone, and grab a bottle of Kit scratch out, and can of Kit paste wax, for ~$5 each, and practice your hand technique. That's probably your best investment.
 
GoudyL said:
Dustin, spiderwebbing (a very haze of superficial scratches) is a different thing than small scratches, which are different from big scratches.



IMHO You really want to ignore the idea of getting the car to a perfect show car finish. Show car's are either, new to begin with, have a custom paint job, or else usually had quite a bit of clearcoat removed. They usually don't get driven much, and therefore can afford to go around with thin though very smooth clearcoat.



For a daily driver, wearing down the the clearcoat is just bringing forward the day of clearcoat failure.



If you have gotten the finish to the point where it looks smooth glassy from 3ft by casual inspection, Methinks you are doing great. Your customers will be well pleased and you should be well pleased.



After you've washed, pre-wax cleaner, and clayed, most cars are going to look great. Very smooth and shiny. Then the goal is to lock in that cleanliness with a protective wax (wax + glaze), and then give it ultimate shine with a blast of QD spray.



From a time/money perspective, Clay, Pre-Wax cleaner (on a white pad), spot treatment with scratch remover, Cleaner Wax (on a different white pad), Top coat, QD wipedown is going to be much faster, use fewer expensive chemicals, and get you more consistent results.



Between the pre-wax cleaner, cleaning wax, and white pads you should have plenty of cleaning going on. Yet at the same time very little risk of marring or damaging the paint.



Within the mother's system you could top off with reflections top coat or the pure carnauba. Application will be very fast, because the pure waxes will mix nicely with the existing wax layer.



You could charge extra for this service (one coat vs two coats of wax). I wouldn't charge too much more, because most customers have no idea how much better their car will look with a top coat of pure wax on it.



As for your corvette, its your car, so do what you want. You should be happy that the finish is in great condition. Personally I'm going to use harsh abrasives by hand only.



You might want to snap down to autozone, and grab a bottle of Kit scratch out, and can of Kit paste wax, for ~$5 each, and practice your hand technique. That's probably your best investment.
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U've got a solid point there, thanks Ill take you advise and not touch my vette others than the occasional wax and sealent followed with a qd :), I live out in the country and we have a napa store close by, would turtle wax color x work good on paint to hide smaller scratches in the finish like the Kit scratch out? and whats a typically good pure wax or canuaba wax?
 
DetailnByDustn said:
U've got a solid point there, thanks Ill take you advise and not touch my vette others than the occasional wax and sealent followed with a qd :), I live out in the country and we have a napa store close by, would turtle wax color x work good on paint to hide smaller scratches in the finish like the Kit scratch out? and whats a typically good pure wax or canuaba wax?
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Dustin, why don't you do a bit of searching/research before you ask your questions? :hm



Meg's ColorX, seems to be some sort of very agressive cleaner wax. Not something that I've ever used. Kit scratch out is a liquid polishing compound, it doesn't hide scratches, it reduces them like any compound.



The point I was making about Kit scratch out, and Kit paste wax, is that they are cheap, and you get decent amounts of each. ~14oz of scratch out for $5, and 12oz of wax for $5. This is quite a bit cheaper than Mothers CG Cleaner Wax or Natural Formula Carnauba wax. :)



I'm sure you could find them *mart or any autoparts store (Autozone carries the line for sure). Otherwise get some Turtle Wax Carnauba Cleaner Wax/*Premium* Polishing Compound. The point is, you want to be practicing your technique with products that are safe, cheap and effective. E.g not the yellow pad.



This does three things, 1. You get the most from your products because you use them well. 2. You save money because most people chronically over apply products, thus wasting them. 3. You save time because you know what you are doing. :)



Learning how to use paste wax well is an important skill, because the cost per application of paste wax is much cheaper than liquid wax. This adds up pretty quick.



As for your top coat wax, my advice is to stay within the mothers line rather than becoming a product collector. Either the NF Carnauba, or Reflections Top coat would be good products.



I'd probably go with the NF Carnauba if I was using the Mother's cleaner wax as my base wax. If you can't get those, Meg's #26 Hi-tech yellow wax would be fine as well.
 
GoudyL said:
Dustin, why don't you do a bit of searching/research before you ask your questions? :hm



Meg's ColorX, seems to be some sort of very agressive cleaner wax. Not something that I've ever used. Kit scratch out is a liquid polishing compound, it doesn't hide scratches, it reduces them like any compound.



The point I was making about Kit scratch out, and Kit paste wax, is that they are cheap, and you get decent amounts of each. ~14oz of scratch out for $5, and 12oz of wax for $5. This is quite a bit cheaper than Mothers CG Cleaner Wax or Natural Formula Carnauba wax. :)



I'm sure you could find them *mart or any autoparts store (Autozone carries the line for sure). Otherwise get some Turtle Wax Carnauba Cleaner Wax/*Premium* Polishing Compound. The point is, you want to be practicing your technique with products that are safe, cheap and effective. E.g not the yellow pad.



This does three things, 1. You get the most from your products because you use them well. 2. You save money because most people chronically over apply products, thus wasting them. 3. You save time because you know what you are doing. :)



Learning how to use paste wax well is an important skill, because the cost per application of paste wax is much cheaper than liquid wax. This adds up pretty quick.



As for your top coat wax, my advice is to stay within the mothers line rather than becoming a product collector. Either the NF Carnauba, or Reflections Top coat would be good products.



I'd probably go with the NF Carnauba if I was using the Mother's cleaner wax as my base wax. If you can't get those, Meg's #26 Hi-tech yellow wax would be fine as well.
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Sorry haha I will next time, I have pretty good experience with paste wax, that's how I first started out, Ill drive to advanced and pick some up, Ive got a friend that got out of detailing because of his back and wanted me 2 detail his suburban for all his detailing stuff he had left over, such as meg #26 yellow wax, thanks for everything
 
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