Changing my views a bit on waxes and sealants and paint colors.

G

Guitarist302008

New member
You always hear people say that this wax or sealant looks good on this color or that. I just don't think I believe that anymore. I feel that if you like a certain product because it has a wet look, durable shine or whatever, but either way as has been said many times... it's all in the prep work. How many actually feel that different waxes or sealants only match well with certain color paints or if it's really all in the prep work?
 
Surface type- reflectivity is a directional property; most surfaces can be divided into those that give specular reflection and those that give diffuse reflection. Most objects have some mixture of diffuse and specular reflective properties.



Reflective Value (RV) - the reflective value of a colour indicates how much light and heat is reflected back from the colour surface. Light reflectance value (RV) is a numerical rating assigned by paint manufacturers to each colour they make. This number is a scientifically determined assessment of the amount light and heat that colour will reflect on a scale of 0 to 100.



The way light is reflected from a paint surface affects the vehicles appearance after it is detailed. Reflection of light is either Specular (mirror-like) or Diffuse (retaining the energy, but losing the image) depending on the nature of the surface. It is also possible for reflection to occur from the surface of transparent media, such as water or glass.



A perfectly ‘flat’ levelled surface is obtained by polishing the paint surface. Shine an easily understood concept of light reflection / refraction (in simple terms the light reflectance from a mirror) I wanted to expand that concept so that the shine would be optically perfect as well as multi-dimensional. The bright shine of a polymer sealant is often criticized as being “sterile” (a flat silvery-white reflection) good reflective properties but without ‘depth’ or jetting (wet-look) of an organic wax.



1. Paint colours reflect light differently, i.e. a white or silver will reflect specular light. Darker colours i.e. red, black, etc absorb light and therefore the reflected light is diffused



2. A polymer sealant or a nano coating product are more suited to the reflectance properties of light colours. An organic wax suit the reflective properties of darker colours
 
Does the same hold true for light metallics and dark metallics ? I find certain products mute the metallic.
 
Metallic flakes will slightly alter light reflection insofar as they act like micro mirrors; I’m sure that some products are not that optically clear and could therefore mute the reflection. A ‘safe’ answer would be to use a good quality polymer or nano coating on metallics
 
Guitarist302008 said:
You always hear people say that this wax or sealant looks good on this color or that. I just don't think I believe that anymore. I feel that if you like a certain product because it has a wet look, durable shine or whatever, but either way as has been said many times... it's all in the prep work. How many actually feel that different waxes or sealants only match well with certain color paints or if it's really all in the prep work?
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I like certain products best with certain paints especially with metallics. The prep work is they key for maximum results but given that sealants and waxes are coatings they will affect light. A coating (intentionally or unintentionally) can absorb light or reflect light that can change how a paint looks. I have seen some sealants that tend to darken paints (like make blacks look less gray) while others are just neutral.
 
I disagree. Put Z2 on silver and it looks amazing. On black, it looks terrible (though some people love the mirror look). A good carnauba like M26 or Pinnacle looks great on black or red. Put it on a metallic paint and you'll wonder where the flakes went. 90% of the result is in the prep work, but the LSP can certainly change the outcome.
 
Guitarist302008- I find myself preferring/not certain LSPs on certain paints, but it's not only about the color or whether it's a metallic or not; it just, well...depends on the gestalt of the thing- the paint, the prep, the vehicle's age and styling, the way all those things factor into how *I* want it to look.



I've even found that certain LSPs that seemed to mute metallic (e.g., 476S) did *not* do that with different prep and/or on different (metallic) paints. Just so many variables...
 
well for instance, I had read in multiple posts that blackfire was good for pretty much darker paints however, it seems to look just as good on my white paint as when I put it on my black mazdaspeed 3... in fact, it looks better IMO. Maybe the paint is better or worse on one car resulting in this, I don't know.



You see wax tests like the one that was done with the swissvax, collinite 915 and like 3 others and the general outcome of the test is that no one could tell a difference from one car to the next... and i'd be willing to bet the ones who claimed they could were simply guessing.
 
yakky said:
I disagree. Put Z2 on silver and it looks amazing. On black, it looks terrible (though some people love the mirror look). A good carnauba like M26 or Pinnacle looks great on black or red. Put it on a metallic paint and you'll wonder where the flakes went. 90% of the result is in the prep work, but the LSP can certainly change the outcome.
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Well said.



I even find differences/preferences in quick wax/detailers like Aqua Wax and Poorboys QD+. QD+ has some wax in it. I used it on my wife's silver car today, and it simply does not look the same as Aqua Wax. AW looks better on silver. QD+ looks better on darker colors.
 
Certain products can have a big affect with different paint finishes. A while back, I had a client that didnt even know her car had so much metal flake until I worked on it- and this was a car that was worked on by another person for years. Funny, she didnt like how it looked with the more pronounced metal flake, so I had to try something else. Spent a lil while working on it, but once I was done, she made it worth the while with a nice tip. After that, I made sure to note what she liked the paint to look like so whenever she came by, she knew what to expect.



The whole mix-match of waxes/ sealants on paint isnt an exact science. The fact that some clients do notice a change in the way their paint looks, tells me using the right product can make a difference.
 
usdm said:
Certain products can have a big affect with different paint finishes. A while back, I had a client that didnt even know her car had so much metal flake until I worked on it- and this was a car that was worked on by another person for years. Funny, she didnt like how it looked with the more pronounced metal flake, so I had to try something else. Spent a lil while working on it, but once I was done, she made it worth the while with a nice tip. After that, I made sure to note what she liked the paint to look like so whenever she came by, she knew what to expect.



The whole mix-match of waxes/ sealants on paint isnt an exact science. The fact that some clients do notice a change in the way their paint looks, tells me using the right product can make a difference.
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A lot of the flake coming out was also due to the car being polished, don't you think?
 
Guitarist302008 said:
well for instance, I had read in multiple posts that blackfire was good for pretty much darker paints however, it seems to look just as good on my white paint as when I put it on my black mazdaspeed 3... in fact, it looks better IMO. Maybe the paint is better or worse on one car resulting in this, I don't know.



You see wax tests like the one that was done with the swissvax, collinite 915 and like 3 others and the general outcome of the test is that no one could tell a difference from one car to the next... and i'd be willing to bet the ones who claimed they could were simply guessing.
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BFWD is unique in that regard, and its a reason a lot of people like it. It darkens paint and adds a ton of gloss, usually those are exclusive. Its one of those products with a great range.



As far as the tests that disprove differences in looks, that's a whole different subject. Lots of good points made in those threads, but the one that stands out for me is that in varying conditions on your own car is where you see the biggest difference. I do agree that in bright sun, its very hard to tell between LSPs.
 
Guitarist302008 said:
A lot of the flake coming out was also due to the car being polished, don't you think?
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Thing is, I didnt do a real polish step per se, but get where you are comin from.



What I used (if memory serves):



Pt A of Autoint ABC

Pt C of Autoint ABC w/ clay bar

1 coat TOL Snap Seal via da and megs sof buf finish pad



So then, I guess the argument could be made that a combination of things

led to a brightening of the paint finish. Whomever worked on it before probably

used a heavy glaze and wax, which in of themselves could easily mute the appearance

of the paint finish, and then, my process of cleaning the paint and adding the Snap Seal

knocked all that work out. Point taken.



But now, I am wondering about how a polish can affect the look of a paint as well.
 
usdm- Huh, thought I was the only person who knew from TOL's Snap Seal :D Handy stuff for some jobs, but not something I'd really want when looks matter.
 
usdm said:
Thing is, I didnt do a real polish step per se, but get where you are comin from.



What I used (if memory serves):



Pt A of Autoint ABC

Pt C of Autoint ABC w/ clay bar

1 coat TOL Snap Seal via da and megs sof buf finish pad



So then, I guess the argument could be made that a combination of things

led to a brightening of the paint finish. Whomever worked on it before probably

used a heavy glaze and wax, which in of themselves could easily mute the appearance

of the paint finish, and then, my process of cleaning the paint and adding the Snap Seal

knocked all that work out. Point taken.



But now, I am wondering about how a polish can affect the look of a paint as well.
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I am honestly not familiar with those products, so I can't comment on them. I know that my Fiancee's car has beautiful flake and when I polished it, it was beautiful and really popped. Now I used Duragloss 105 on the car as a LSP and it's really a great LSP for gloss. I can't say it made the flake come out anymore though.



However, I did just put some blackfire wet diamond on my Z which also has flake and it does SEEM to show it very well, but I have also read that it does that to a lot finishes, so that might be the placebo effect, but maybe not.



Just thought i'd raise the question to get some people thinking.
 
I think this is a great debate. I have noticed the difference in LSP's a lot. I love the look of Pinnacle Soverin, but well it just lacks durability. Collinite 845 is a great wax/sealer that has kick *** durablity, but I prefer its looks on a white or lighter colored car. Iknow this is cheating because I know for a fact very few have touched it, but 3D nitro seal is wetter looking then soverin, but has the durability that will rock even the greatest coatings. For me its all up to what the customer is looking for. I actually have one client who brings me his car once a month and doesn't even want it waxed. He tells me to use 85rd and call it a day. lol
 
In my testing I've found the differences to be subtle and pretty much undetectable in full sun. The most distinct difference I see between products is in the amount of darkening each achieves, which is most noticeable in the early morning or evening hours. Maybe it's just my eyes, but I think people exaggerate the differences and I feel most often it's just their mind simply showing them what they want to see. How can you honestly say product A looks better then product B unless you have two of the exact same panels or cars polished to the same degree and placed in the same exact light. When someone says they just applied a new wax/sealant to their car and say it looks way better (without any real evidence), I kind of roll my eyes.



I feel the final look is more like 95-98% from the polishing.





Just my $.02

Rasky
 
I have definately seen some sealants mute flake from what must be the darkening effect people mention. That said, I can honestly say that on Metallics, I have never seen any other product make the flakes jump out like Zaino Z2. I've seen this over and over by applying it in direct sunlight where I feel it made a noticeable difference.
 
Though I'm usually saying how it doesn't matter much, and I'm the guy do posted the "Collinite mistaken for Dodo" story, I will say that with two identical silver Audis (both prepped with the same products/processes), side-by-side comparisons do show various differences between certain LSPs.. some subtle, some not. And I find it interesting when my wife can spot a different LSP on her Audi (beyond the "just waxed" difference); some of the differences she can clearly articulate despite knowing basically nothing about LSPs.
 
David, What about Nitro Seal for metallics ?? Poxy looks awesome.



David Fermani said:
I have definately seen some sealants mute flake from what must be the darkening effect people mention. That said, I can honestly say that on Metallics, I have never seen any other product make the flakes jump out like Zaino Z2. I've seen this over and over by applying it in direct sunlight where I feel it made a noticeable difference.
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