Caring for leather in rarely driven vehicles

Anymore my car pretty much just sits in the garage and gets taken out once a month or so. Even though they are not dirty at all or see abuse, it has been probably been about 4 months or so since I have cleaned and treated the seats with Zaino Z9 and Z10. I have been wanting to do them for a while and probably should soon.



I was wondering, for vehicles that sit in the gargae more than actually being driven, should extra and more frequent care be given to the leather seats? Since they are not seeing much seat time with flexing and mvement, will this cause the leatherr to shink and dry more prematurely? What kind of maintenance schedule do you all reccomend for the best possbile protection to keep them in the best possbile condition?
 
I would think that less exposure to UVA/UVB rays and the other elements would keep the seats in better condition.
 
Clean -vacuum to remove dust (every 3 or 4th month use a water-based cleaner)



Hydrate - use a damp towel to wipe down surfaces



Protect – use a water-based protection (periodically)
 
RedlineIRL said:
Since they are not seeing much seat time with flexing and mvement, will this cause the leatherr to shink and dry more prematurely?





It seems you are more concern on the how to care the leather “structure” than the finish itself.



True, it’s the leather structure fatliquor that dries out as VOC (volatile organic compound) more than the finishes plasticizers.



The answer is how we get to replenish (just like topping up of engine oil) or rejuvenate this leather structure to maintain its perpetual suppleness.



On the other hand, there is nothing much we can do regarding the finishing diminishing plasticizer.



Auto leather may be the same, but still different in many ways; the finish types, designs and construction; seldom you see a “molded” leather seat without stitching holes; and most modern non—absorbent leathers comes with perforation.



It will be good to see your leather seats as reference for a more meaningful discussion.



Roger Koh

[email protected]
 
TOGWT said:
Hydrate - use a damp towel to wipe down surfaces



Protect – use a water-based protection (periodically)



I've read a bunch of your posts, and some of you were/are basically saying, "if coated leather is impermeable, there's no need to use conditioner, since it won't get absorbed."



If that were the case, then modern car seats' drying and cracking would be unavoidable, right? since nothing you could put on it would be absorbed into the leather.



In some threads, people mention the water drop test to demonstrate the lack of absorption of sealed leather.

However, all you are demonstrating is water droplet surface tension.



But wait, now you say we can hydrate leather by wiping it down with water.

Well, water evaporates as easily as it is absorbed, so whatever hydration you think you're doing is only short lived.

There has to be something to seal in that water moisture, and this is where I think the residual 'crud' of water emulsion leather conditioners like Lexol can seal in moisture.



I would love to throw away my small lexol spray bottle, and just use woolite or soap & water for the rest of my life, if that's all it took to maintain modern car leather, and I would love to see experiments done to prove that modern car leather is essentially low maintenance.

The oldest car I have with leather seats is a 2003 lexus, parked outside 24/7, and so far, the back seat has rarely been maintained or used, and the leather is still like new.

I would like to see how the backseat holds up 10 years from now.

My car is essentially such an experiment, as I only use leather conditioner on the front seats.
 
Always keep an open mind and I would also strongly suggest that you verify any information that I or anyone else shares with you. Be pro-active and research others opinions and products, test them and then make an objective decision based upon the factual information gained from research. Don’t regard any source as something you can entirely rely on, least of all marketing hype or brand loyalty



I strive to do my best by not only using an extensive knowledge and experience of detailing and the chemicals used but also by embracing advanced techniques and the new technologies as they become available in order to put out the best information possible to both professional and hobbyist detailer alike.



I have always thought that the more facts and information you have at hand the easier it is to judge what information you are being given. After all, how can you fully understand and properly use any product unless you have all the facts? In the final analysis; it’s your vehicle, your hard earned money and your choice.
 
My experience with leather. I also have a 20 year old garage queen that sees very little road time. It has pristine leather that never sees a conditioner.



Leather is quite adept at soaking up moisture. If you ever used a real chamois you know this. When it gets wet, it swells and gets soft and when it gets dry, it shrinks and gets hard. Leather is very fibrous and will absorb copious amounts of moisture from the air in a highly humid environment. Even protected leather will absorb moisture in this manner, mostly through the backside which is uncoated. The topcoat is indeed impervious to direct assault by water and other oils, and waxy conditioners. These conditioners are mostly water and oils or wax and sit on the protected urethane coating but they also evaporate and elevate the humidity level around the leather so may provide some benefit.



When leather dries it shrinks and given the topcoat is a bonded urethane paint it does not. Leather fibers lose their elasticity as they shrink and begin to pull away from the topcoat, then they find moisture again and swell. Heat and cold also causes swelling and shrinking. This process repeats and eventually wrinkles form and occasionally even cracks. A car typically is a harsh environment for leather. Temperatures in a closed car can range from below zero F to as high as 150°F. This also effects the humidity and the moisture level of the leather. Even with the windows cracked, the temperature inside a car during a hot summer day can exceed 150°F.



In many ways, coated leather is like painted wood on your house. Water runs off the painted surface but is absorbed by unpainted wood. Wood, even painted wood absorbs moisture in high humidity. Wood, like leather swells and shrinks. It swells when it gets wet and shrinks when it gets dry. Heat cycles also cause this shrinking and swelling. Painted houses that have this shrinking and swelling process usually also have paint bonding problems like cracking and blistering as the protective coating loses its bond to the wood.



So how do I care for my leather?

Besides regular and thourough cleaning, I maintain the moisture level of the leather by increasing the humidity level surrounding the leather. I do this by regular wipe-downs with a wrung out white cotton towel. In severely arid and hot conditions I've even tossed that wrung out towel under the seats for a couple hours to keep the humidity level elevated. I also try to park in a shaded area to keep the car out the sun whenever possible. I don't use conditioners but do use a water-based flourocarbon protector. How has this worked for me? I have leather that is over 20 years old, never had a conditioner applied and looks pristine. I don't believe conditioners are the solution to keeping protected leathers looking like new. In my experience they are neither needed nor effective.
 
[When leather dries it shrinks and given the topcoat is a bonded urethane paint it does not. Leather fibers lose their elasticity as they shrink and begin to pull away from the topcoat, then they find moisture again and swell. Heat and cold also causes swelling and shrinking. This process repeats and eventually wrinkles form and occasionally even cracks. A car typically is a harsh environment for leather. Temperatures in a closed car can range from below zero F to as high as 150°F. This also effects the humidity and the moisture level of the leather. Even with the windows cracked, the temperature inside a car during a hot summer day can exceed 150°F]



http://www.autopia.org/forum/autopi...r-fat-liquoring-conditioning.html#post1462908
 
RedlineIRL- I hardly ever use the '01 S8, and I've probably treated its leather two or three times since new. No problems, I just keep it clean and it stays OK.



Roger Koh- The last time I did treat the S8's leather I used the stuff I got from you. VERY GOOD results; I'm a fully satisfied customer :xyxthumbs



I gotta discuss something with you...check your email at "info@..."
 
So then are water based products like Optimum Protectant Plus better for modern auto leather than say Z10 or DG Leather Conditioner???
 
pwaug said:
So then are water based products like Optimum Protectant Plus better for modern auto leather than say Z10 or DG Leather Conditioner???



Unless a Premium Leather option was purchased the type of leather upholstery used by ~ 95% of OEM is a multi stratum covering over the leather hide; the top strata is the surface pigmentation (colour) and an abrasion resistant urethane. Real leather has a recognizable fragrance that is missing from polyurethane and plastic. Simple cleaning, hydration and protection are the steps that will prolong the life of finished leather.



Modern automotive leather upholstery use a completely different tanning processes and finishing system, utilizing advanced polymers and chemicals (urethane doesn’t require conditioning or rejuvenation) and as a consequence they do not need to be treated with aftercare products containing oils.
 
Thanks for the help everyone. I have a better understanding now after reading the above posts. So it seems that the key is being sure to keep them clean. So what is best to use on coated leathers to keep them cleaned?



pwaug said:
So then are water based products like Optimum Protectant Plus better for modern auto leather than say Z10 or DG Leather Conditioner???

I always thought that Z9 and Z10 were water based. Is that not the case?
 
RedlineIRL said:
Thanks for the help everyone. I have a better understanding now after reading the above posts. So it seems that the key is being sure to keep them clean. So what is best to use on coated leathers to keep them cleaned?



At the risk of sounding like a shill for Roger Koh, check out the Leather Doctor line. I've also done OK with the cleaners from Leather Masters and Sonus (the latter is a bit different as it's a no-rinse cleaner), and with Griot's Interior Cleaner.
 
We have two really good lines of leather products, LTT and Leather Doctor that ( last time I checked) are less convenient for those of us in the States to get. Unfortunately, it looks like leatherdoctor.com remains closed ( have to order by e-mail, huh?) and we have to remember we would be ordering rom England to get LTT. I guess I'm just spoiled by the ease or ordering from a US-based vendor. :o Right now, I'm not in the market for any leather conditioners, but just wanted to point this out.
 
RedlineIRL said:
Thanks for the help everyone. I have a better understanding now after reading the above posts. So it seems that the key is being sure to keep them clean. So what is best to use on coated leathers to keep them cleaned?







Keeping the leather clean is referring to the leather finishes maintenance for aesthetic, appearance or look, basically this finishes is a soft and strong urethane coating over a pigmented coating; and assuming that this coating is also non-pervious as micro creasing may have not developed yet, fully molded without seams or stitching holes, and non-perforated. Yet if you take a surface reading of it pH value, it will still shows that it is acidic, below pH 7. The leather structure reading from the reverse side will probably average between pH value 3 and 5. So we are still talking about “coated leathers”. In most cases you’ll see “uncoated leathers” in “coated leathers”. And it is these “uncoated leathers” areas that begin to manifest into the “coated leathers” that wakes up the owners. Have you take a close look at stitching holes to monitor the health of your leathers. The original needle holes at its prime health should be a perfect round. Original fatliquor evaporates or leaches out at these weak points and these are the areas where the need for leather rejuvenating is all about, keeping the leather with perpetual suppleness and strength is to have a periodic top-up of fatliquors from a bottle. A slanted needle holes when wet and dry again will be stiff and when flexed will develop into cracks.



Most of leather care products are waterbased and will have a pH value when read with a pH meter. Cleaning products that have a reading between 3 and 5 will be leather safe both to above surface and below surface. So an acidic cleaner is safer than an alkaline cleaner. Acids will contracts the finishes tighter, while alkaline will wedge the surface and weakens it. Alkaline cleaners may streaks the topcoats and yellow it when compare to acid cleaners; that’s why such non-leather-safe cleaners’ instruction is to foam cleans it, to reduce the inherent streaking possibility. Leather-safe cleaners can be applied any how you wish and yet will not streaks the finishes.



Solvent or alcohol contents are never wise to be used to “keep them clean”. It’s used primarily to remove oily soiling with its solvency. Bad for finishes too as it weaken it, thus a heavy conditioner is used to hide the damages. Keeping them clean with alkaline solvent content cleaners will erode the original OEM finishes and replacing it slowly with weaker alternatives.



“So it seems that the key is being sure to keep them clean.”



So besides the pH value of products used, acidic or alkaline with solvency; the next consideration is to check its residue contents, and this is a testing recommendation.

If you apply your chosen product to your glasses (spectacles) or glass panels, see if you can clearly see thru it; if you can’t, that is not the right product to use on your leather as the residue will accumulate and distort the leather original appearance; besides all the grooves and stitching holes and perforated holes will be filled with these unwanted residues.





Leather Conditioner above Surface.

Since the modern OEM topcoating is such a soft and strong protection over the colorcoating; is it necessary to further condition to coats it?

Check the ingredient of conditioner or protector and ask yourself, is this protection stronger than the OEM topcoat?

Yes it could be a useless layer that begins to attracts more soiling – apply such conditioner or protector over a plastic sheet and test it out to verify what I have said.

But we also have seen finishes wears out with friction rubs very common on booster that we slide in and out.

To reduce such friction wears a “rub-resistant” protection will be most ideal, that impart a buttery feel without the leather sticking to our body especially when wearing shorts that also reduce overstretching the leather too; would be of benefit to the finishes worth considering.



Leather Conditioner below Surface.

The below surface conditioning takes care of the chemistry integrity of the leather, that provides us with practical usefulness in suppleness and strength. As the leather ages with diminishing fatliquor it need to be periodic replenish just like periodic checking and topping up of our car engine oil. Products that caution on applying to suede are questionable. What is suede, it’s the reverse side of leather; rather the needle holes and the perforated holes are suede from the cross section. Leather suppleness is derived from the millions of connecting fibrils working together like a long chain of hinges; and each has to be separated and lubricated for it to be compress and stretch when flexed. Much of the leather suppleness depends on the fatliquor (ionic charged fat, oil and water). The lifeblood of leather, the fatliquor now comes in a bottle. Different between rejuvenating oil and fatliquor is first its appearance; oil appearance looks no different from cooking oil; while fatliquor appearance looks no different from fresh milk; and there are some conditioner that looks in between cooking oil and fresh milk. So you may have 3 level of conditioning to choose from, all will soften the leather to a degree.



Oil:

These are the traditional stuffing oil that fills the inter-fibrillary spaces; retards transpiration; darkening effect; yet contribute to softening the leather. Pour it onto a clear bottle, will remain stable in appearance.



Popular Conditioner:

Instructions cautions on applying to suede, sulfuric smell that tends to yellows; yet contribute to softening the leather. Pour it onto a clear bottle, you will see the separation of the oil to the surface - pretty unstable.



Fatliquor:

Its ionic negative charged (-) fat, oil and water that is design to hydrogen-bond with the positive charged (+) leather protein fibers for a more lasting effect. Fat contents plumps the leather with fullness, Oil lubricates the individual fibrils for suppleness and the water that encase these fat and oils evaporates to leave the leather with the desired transpiration. It’s the universal conditioner for all leathers including nubuck and fine suede with no darkening effect and the classic leather scented fragrance to choose from. Pour it onto a clear bottle, looks like fresh milk and remains stable even chilled from fridge.



Try all of these classes of conditions to experience the difference – you would find the good from the bad and knows the ugly ones too!



Roger Koh

[email protected]
 
Roger Koh said:
Keeping the leather clean is referring to the leather finishes maintenance for aesthetic, appearance or look, basically this finishes is a soft and strong urethane coating over a pigmented coating; and assuming that this coating is also non-pervious as micro creasing may have not developed yet, fully molded without seams or stitching holes, and non-perforated. Yet if you take a surface reading of it pH value, it will still shows that it is acidic, below pH 7. The leather structure reading from the reverse side will probably average between pH value 3 and 5. So we are still talking about “coated leathers”. In most cases you’ll see “uncoated leathers” in “coated leathers”. And it is these “uncoated leathers” areas that begin to manifest into the “coated leathers” that wakes up the owners. Have you take a close look at stitching holes to monitor the health of your leathers. The original needle holes at its prime health should be a perfect round. Original fatliquor evaporates or leaches out at these weak points and these are the areas where leather rejuvenating is all about, keeping the leather with perpetual suppleness and strength is to have a periodic top-up of fatliquors from a bottle. A slanted needle holes when wet and dry again will be stiff and when flexed will develop into cracks.



Most of leather care products are waterbased and will have a pH value when read with a pH meter. Cleaning products that have a reading between 3 and 5 will be leather safe both to above surface and below surface. So an acidic cleaner is safer than an alkaline cleaner. Acids will contracts the finishes tighter, while alkaline will wedge the surface and weakens it. Alkaline cleaners may streaks the topcoats and yellow it when compare to acid cleaners; that’s why such non-leather-safe cleaners’ instruction is to foam cleans it, to reduce the inherent streaking possibility. Leather-safe cleaners can be applied any how you wish and yet will not streaks the finishes.



Solvent or alcohol contents are never wise to be used to “keep them clean”. It’s used primarily to remove oily soiling with its solvency. Bad for finishes too as it weaken it, thus a heavy conditioner is used to hide the damages. Keeping them clean with alkaline solvent content cleaners will erode the original OEM finishes and replacing it slowly with weaker alternatives.



“So it seems that the key is being sure to keep them clean.”



So besides the pH value of products used, acidic or alkaline with solvency; the next consideration is to check its residue contents, and this is a testing recommendation.

If you apply your chosen product to your glasses (spectacles) or glass panels, see if you can clearly see thru it; if you can’t, that is not the right product to use on your leather as the residue will accumulate and distort the leather original appearance; besides all the grooves and stitching holes and perforated holes will be filled with these unwanted residues.





Leather Conditioner above Surface.

Since the modern OEM topcoating is such a soft and strong protection over the colorcoating; is it necessary to further condition to coats it?

Check the ingredient of conditioner or protector and ask yourself, is this protection stronger than the OEM topcoat?

Yes it could be a useless layer that begins to attracts more soiling – apply such conditioner or protector over a plastic sheet and test it out to verify what I have said.

But we also have seen finishes wears out with friction rubs very common on booster that we slide in and out.

To reduce such friction wears a “rub-resistant” protection will be most ideal, that impart a buttery feel without the leather sticking to our body especially when wearing shorts that also reduce overstretching the leather too; would be of benefit to the finishes worth considering.



Leather Conditioner below Surface.

The below surface conditioning takes care of the chemistry integrity of the leather, that provides us with practical usefulness in suppleness and strength. As the leather ages with diminishing fatliquor it need to be periodic replenish just like periodic checking and topping up of our car engine oil. Products that caution on applying on suede are questionable. What is suede, it’s the reverse side of leather; rather the needle holes and the perforated holes are suede from the cross section. Leather suppleness is derived from the millions of connecting fibrils working together like a long chain of hinges; and each has to be separated and lubricated for it to be compress and stretch when flexed. Much of the leather suppleness depends on the fatliquor (ionic charged fat, oil and water). The lifeblood of leather, the fatliquor now comes in a bottle. Different between rejuvenating oil and fatliquor is first its appearance; oil appearance looks no different from cooking oil; while fatliquor appearance looks no different from fresh milk; and there are some conditioner that looks in between cooking oil and fresh milk. So you may have 3 level of conditioning to choose from, all will soften the leather to a degree.



Oil:

These are the traditional stuffing oil that fills the inter-fibrillary spaces; retards transpiration; darkening effect; yet contribute to softening the leather. Pour it onto a clear bottle, will remain stable in appearance.



Popular Conditioner:

Instructions cautions on applying to suede, sulfuric fragrance that tends to yellows; yet contribute to softening the leather. Pour it onto a clear bottle, you will see the separation of the oil to the surface - pretty unstable.



Fatliquor:

Its ionic negative charged (-) fat, oil and water that is design to hydrogen-bond with the positive charged (+) leather protein fibers for a more lasting effect. Fat contents plumps the leather with fullness, Oil lubricates the individual fibrils for suppleness and the water that encase these fat and oils evaporates to leave the leather with the desired transpiration. It’s the universal conditioner for all leathers including nubuck and fine suede with no darkening effect and the classic leather scented fragrance to choose from. Pour it onto a clear bottle, looks like fresh milk and remains stable even chilled from fridge.



Try all of these classes of conditions to experience the difference – you would find the good from the bad and knows the ugly ones too!



Roger Koh

[email protected]





Very interesting



See also Detailing World forum -Dr Leather post 02.10.2010 #15 - Welcome to Dr Leather - Page 2 - Detailing World
 
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