can't seem to not scratch it

[Accumulator]

I'm following this thread with interest. I have a 14 year old black 4runner that I just can't seem to keep scratch free. I've been tweaking my approach for about a year now, and it has gotten a lot better, but even after a wash or two I can see scratching when looking directly at the sun's reflection in the paint. It looks fine even from 2-3 feet in full sun, until I look directly at the reflection and then it looks like itty bitty spiders live within my paint and dragged some webs around...

Hope you're not letting it get you down. Keeping things "Autopian" all the time is a pretty tall order and one can have a fine, happy life even if one's vehicle is a bit marred up



But OTOH, hey....this *is* Autopia And I'm about as nutty regarding wash-induced marring as anybody can get! So... more of my $0.02 follows:

- Two bucket method with grit guard in rinse bucket.

OK, but *IMO* if you're tranferring dirt to the rinse bucket you've already dragged that dirt across your paint. I have *zero* need for a grit guard as my rinse water stays clean.

- Not ringing out sponge / letting it drain before putting it on paint. I take the sponge straight out of the bucket with water / suds running and start at the top, let the suds drip down to cover the panel.

That's good, the more liquid/flushing/etc. the better. But after the suds cover the panel I'd want to "reload" the sponge with more shampoo mix before doing any actual cleaning. [Insert "buy a foamgun and use it for that" advice here]

- I do the top half of a panel / door with one side of the sponge and the lower part with the other side. Then rinse and move on. I used to do a couple of panels at a time, but I'm wondering if even half a door per side of a sponge is too much. I wash my cars every 1 or 2 weeks so there rarely is anything major on it.

Using youre method, I'd do a much smaller area than that. If I had to wash without a foamgun I sure wouldn't do half a door with one side of the sponge, not even *close* to that much area.

- Trying plusher microfiber drying towels / using detail spray / only using a vac n blo to blow dry.

That's good...but if it's clean it shouldn't be a bid issue. But that's one very big "if", huh?!? I think you're doing a good job with the drying.

I've been "normal population" successful, but have not yet met my standards. I want a swirl free wash without needing 4 hoses, 10 buckets, 5 wash mits, etc (no offense!). On two of my cars I'd consider them swirl free with my current approach, but the black, soft paint 4runner can't resist micromarring...

Heh heh, hey, I resemble that remark! Nah, no offense taken at all My four hoses are just for convenience (and hey..for a non-pro my shop's absolute overkill, no question about it).



But I *DO* think you might find a foamgun beneficial. You'd go through a ton of shampoo though.



OR just don't sweat the marring on that one particular vehicle

Unfortunately I'm at the point where I'm running low on paint and can't compound anymore, so I've added glazes and more filling-type LSPs into the mix. But I really don't want to glaze / LSP a SUV every few washes just to fill micromarring, I want to cut out the initial micromarring to begin!

Yeah, at some point concealing is what you gotta do. Maybe something with more durable fillers, under a different LSP would help.

 

[imported_Bert]

One thing I have started doing that seems to help is wringing my wash media out before inserting it into my rinse bucket. Getting the dirty water out before hand seems to keeps my rinse water very clean and therefore I am not transfering that dirt to my wash bucket and reintroducing it to my paint to be drug accross the surface. I know grit guards should help prevent that but this is just another level of prevention I guess.

 

[extrabolts]

Does a foam gun make that much of a difference? I've had one in my cart a few times but never pulled the trigger. We're talking the ~$40 Gilmour one right, not necessarily a foam cannon and full on pressure washer setup?



If you don't transfer some dirt into the rinse bucket on the wash media, where does it go? Are you talking about rinsing the wash media out with a hose as you go before putting it in the rinse bucket? I do that some too. If I'm reading your post right you actually hold the foam gun and spray the panel while washing? That sounds kind of awkward to manage. I'd image you use a boatload of soap every wash too?



I'll definitely start working a smaller area - maybe I'll just double it, using two sides of the sponge to cover half a panel. I'll probably have to mix up more than my typical 3 gallons of solution, but that's no biggie.



I'm getting ready to switch over to FK1000P from 845 since we're already getting temperatures in the upper 80's here in the south and it lives outside all day. The black paint gets VERY hot. I'll do that at next wash, probably this weekend or next. I have some CG EZ creme I can use for minor filling, although I haven't noticed too much to get excited about with its filling ability. Does FK1000P fill at all? I've never really used it on a vehicle needing it, although I do notice some filling with the collinite products.

 

[Accumulator]

Does a foam gun make that much of a difference? I've had one in my cart a few times but never pulled the trigger. We're talking the ~$40 Gilmour one right, not necessarily a foam cannon and full on pressure washer setup?

Yeah, the Gilmour, and you do have to use the right technique. I'll put it this way- noting that I'm *VERY particular about marring, I used to have to do light correction every spring. Now I don't. I kept my Carbon Metallic Yukon XLD basically marring-free (and I mean by Autopian standards ) for over two years while using it as a year-round dog-hauler (think "crusty winter filth"). I haven't polished the Audis for years and most of them get used hard too.



But hey...the closest I come to really soft paint is the single stage lacquer on the oh-so-pampered Jag. So while I get all how-to-expert about washing without marring, who knows how successful I'd be on stupid-soft clear :nixweiss

If you don't transfer some dirt into the rinse bucket on the wash media, where does it go? Are you talking about rinsing the wash media out with a hose as you go before putting it in the rinse bucket? I do that some too. If I'm reading your post right you actually hold the foam gun and spray the panel while washing? That sounds kind of awkward to manage. I'd image you use a boatload of soap every wash too?

Yeah, it takes some practice and yeah it uses lots of shampoo. Those factors might be a deal-breaker for many people.



The output from the foamgun basically flushes away the dirt as soon as the BHB/knocks it loose from the paint. So the dirt gets flushed off the car rather than getting stuck in the BHB/mitt. That means the dirt doesn't get pressed between the BHB/mitt and the paint and then moved under that pressure (that's what causes the marring). No real need to rinse out the BHB as it stays *VERY* clean just from this. I do rinse out the mitt but it doesn't retain much dirt either.

I'll definitely start working a smaller area - maybe I'll just double it, using two sides of the sponge to cover half a panel. I'll probably have to mix up more than my typical 3 gallons of solution, but that's no biggie.

See how that works, and try to use as much shampoo mix as possible; I'd actually make that a goal! The more liquid the better flushing/lubrication/etc..



But I will say that I simply can't keep the marring down to an acceptable level without using the foamgun. I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm smarter than the average bear and I've been doing this stuff for a long, LONG time

I'm getting ready to switch over to FK1000P from 845 since we're already getting temperatures in the upper 80's here in the south and it lives outside all day. The black paint gets VERY hot. I'll do that at next wash, probably this weekend or next. I have some CG EZ creme I can use for minor filling, although I haven't noticed too much to get excited about with its filling ability. Does FK1000P fill at all? I've never really used it on a vehicle needing it, although I do notice some filling with the collinite products.

No, FK1000P doesn't do any filling. So come up with something FK1000P-friendly that'll conceal the minor stuff. You can get a *TINY* (and I mean miniscule) bit of concealing by QDing the FK1000P with FK146 instead of the usually-recommended FK425, but the diff might not be enough to notice unless you're talking "gotta use a SunGun to see it"-type marring.

 

[extrabolts]

Sounds promising, I might have to get the foamgun. Shampoo consumption isn't too big of a concern as I have gallons of different brands anyway. Thanks!

 

[imported_tuffluck]

thanks accumulator! i'll give a few pieces of these techniques a try next time and see how it works out!

 

[Accumulator]

... Shampoo consumption isn't too big of a concern as I have gallons of different brands anyway. Thanks!

Heh heh, famous last words :chuckle: I'm spending a fortune on shampoo now that I finally got my technique dialed-in...can't bring myself to compromise it by economizing

 

[Accumulator]

thanks accumulator! i'll give a few pieces of these techniques a try next time and see how it works out!

Just keep in mind the whole idea of avoiding this:



Abrasive dirt, pressed against your paint (like, by the mitt/sponge) and then moved while under that pressure, will cause scratches.



That's the whole thing in a nutshell. Anything that helps avoid/minimize the above is a step in the right direction.