Can't buff my car out v. drunk driver

From my own experience, I can say esurance is horrible. They are cheapest for a reason.



My Dodge Ram truck was a total loss and it took them over a month and a 1/2 to process my claim and get me paid. In that time, I had to rent a vehicle and I made the mistake of not getting car rental coverage in my policy. My 5k payment became about 2k after paying the rental....



My recommendation is to stay clear from esurance unless you are getting the bare minimum insurance for a clunker just to meet the state minimums.
 
David Fermani said:
I don’t think you know too much about Auto Insurance then or maybe that’s what it’s like in your country, but here that’s exactly what they do. They are in the business of helping people!
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I sure haven't got that impression from Farmer's so far. They've been nothing but a PITA to deal with so far, while my insurance, Nationwide, has been on my side.



Called them yesterday to let them know the police report was available, no call back today. I call them around 12:30 PM and they said they didn't have a copy and I should fax it over. I did about 10 minutes later. An hour goes by, I call and the claims adjuster said she would have to check and would call me back. Around 3 PM I called, she claimed she hadn't received a fax and when I said I'd bring it down personally, she then said my lawyer had just faxed it to them. I told her the police report made it obvious their driver was at fault and I needed a rental by the end of the day. She said it wasn't possible and said she was transferring my claim and hung up on me. I then called my insurance to let them know how uncooperative Farmer's was being and asking them how I should handle it, plus I called that claims adjuster's supervisor and said I was tired of getting the run-around every time I called. 30 minutes later I get a call from the supervisor saying arrangements were being made with Enterprise and I'd be able to pick up a car this afternoon.



BTW, I got home, checked my e-mail and my lawyer had sent over the accident report at 10:30 AM.



You would think an insurance company would want to take care of claims like this promptly and maybe make a new customer rather than just piss people off.



Probably be tomorrow or Thursday before they look at my car, at least next week before they make an offer on it.
 
Scottwax- I'm a little surprised/disappointed that your insurance isn't providing the rental/etc. and then just going after his insurance to recoup the cost :think: That's how mine (Chubb, via an independent agency) handled it whenever such stuff happened to us.
 
Accumulator said:
Scottwax- I'm a little surprised/disappointed that your insurance isn't providing the rental/etc. and then just going after his insurance to recoup the cost :think: That's how mine (Chubb, via an independent agency) handled it whenever such stuff happened to us.
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I thought full coverage included rental but it doesn't. :(



I wish my agent had said that when I took out the policy since adding rental isn't very expensive.
 
Scottwax said:
I thought full coverage included rental but it doesn't. :(
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When I saw that in your earlier post, I guess I didn't realize that it meant you were SOL on the rental even though the drunk's insurance would end up paying out for everything. Now that it's pretty much "all on them" I thought your people would stick them for whatever you needed.
 
David, too much to quote, but to reply:



Sure there's lots of success stories, but it's the same thing like medical insurance companies. They are required by LAW, yes law, to put the financial interest of their shareholders above anything else. Therefore, no, they are not there to "help people" in times of need, they're there to make a profit and mitigate their losses as much as possible. In other words, if any said vehicle is written off and it's worth real-market value of somewhere between $5000 and $6500, you'll be sure to get a cheque in the mail for $5000 and not a penny more (unless you fight it of course).



Now I'm not saying a public run system is any better, on the contrary, public run systems are (for the most part) terrible and much worse than their private counterparts.



My statements aren't just directed to auto insurance, but to insurance in general. Insurance companies love to parade that they're there to help you and make sure you're financially covered, but in reality it isn't the case, and it happens more often than it should that you have to fight with them to get anything.



Also, in Scott's case, I wasn't saying that he's going to have issues. In his scenario, the other driver was clearly at fault while comitting a felony criminal offense. His case should be very straight forward.
 
Scottwax said:
I sure haven't got that impression from Farmer's so far. They've been nothing but a PITA to deal with so far, while my insurance, Nationwide, has been on my side.



You would think an insurance company would want to take care of claims like this promptly and maybe make a new customer rather than just piss people off.
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I've had this type of experience before, very irritating to say the least.
 
Scott -

There’s nothing they could of done until they have enough evidence/documntation to back up their decision. Not in this case, but many times police reports aren’t that cut and dry. Driver statements aren’t either. For example, you could get in an accident with someone and it be totally your fault, but the other person jumps the gun and says it’s their fault(to the police/insurance/you). Guess what? The insurance company still needs to review the traffic laws to determine actual fault. I see it every day with parking lot fender benders. Even if someone got a ticket we all know those can be reversed seeing the police usually weren’t there to witness the accident. If the other insurance company pays you without having their file properly documented they could be up shitt’s creek. So because you are choosing to go through them you need to wait until the investigation is complete on their end. Of course your insurance company is willing to pay you immediately. They have an obligation to do that even if you’re at fault. Looking back, with all the time that has already passed, you could have already been paid(minus your deductible) and out driving in your next car. But, because you’re choosing to go the other route to avoid paying a deductible(I’m assuming?) there’s unfortunately going to be a delay. Even if you initially went through your company and they paid you, they have hughe Subrogation departments that are employeed to go after the other insurance company for the money they paid out. Once they get it, you get your deductible back and your record is clear. If your Attorney is handling the property damage aspect of your case too then you’re going to have to part with a lot more than your deductible. Might not be worth it unless the other Insurance company is doing something really ridiculous that you can sue for? As far as the rental goes, there’s nothing stopping you from getting into one from day one as they ultimately owe you for it and would pay it based on the size vehicle you had.



In regards to how you were treated by the Claims Adjuster, there’s no excuse for their behavior. If that happened at my company she would have gotten in a heep load of trouble and quite possibly lost her job. When I hear about customers being treated like this I won't think twice about reporting them. You taking it up the ladder was the best thing to do because she has to answer to her supervisor about your complaint. Usually when one gets involved they tried their best to put out the fire the easiest and fastest way.





As far as your car’s value, wouldn’t you like to settle for the highest amount? What if they other company gives you $5000, and your company gives you $6000? Or much worse? It happens all the time because the condition of your car is based on the “opinion” of the Appraiser and the 3rd party company each company uses to determine a car’s value from the data the Appraiser gives. That’s why I offered to help by reviewing how they rated your car’s condition as well as its options. My offer still stands as I’m just trying to help, play devil’s advocate and try my best to explain what goes on behind the scenes.
 
WAS said:
Sure there's lots of success stories, but it's the same thing like medical insurance companies. They are required by LAW, yes law, to put the financial interest of their shareholders above anything else. Therefore, no, they are not there to "help people" in times of need, they're there to make a profit and mitigate their losses as much as possible. In other words, if any said vehicle is written off and it's worth real-market value of somewhere between $5000 and $6500, you'll be sure to get a cheque in the mail for $5000 and not a penny more (unless you fight it of course).
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Wrong. Auto Insurance is not like Health Insurance. And I have no interest defending or interreting their rationales. I do think the premiums are way out of hand. Auto policies are way less complicated and it's not fair to pair them together. I can’t remember the last success story I heard about US based health insurance, but I’m sure there are success stories, but I can’t remember if I’ve ever heard one. Tell me the LAW (in the USA) that says that Auto Insurance companies are required to put their shareholders above all other interests in their business? You’d think after almost 7 years in the Insurance business I would have heard what our main directive is?





As far as Mitigation of payouts, yes, that’s my job. To make sure the claim is fairly paid utilizing the most up to date, cost effective products/processes to return the vehicle to pre-loss condition. If I can find a part that is more cost effective and identical, then what’s so wrong with writing for it if the end result is unchanged? We also make sure that your Body Shop isn’t ripping you off as you’d be amazed with how much fraud there is in this sector. I personally assess the repair of a vehicle thinking as if it were my own getting fixed. And actually get several compliments for doing so.



Also, most insurance companies don’t assess a value to your vehicle. They have independent companies that calculate data through a multitude of real world sources to pay you the fair market or Actual Cash Value. There are no ranges we pick from so there’s no way we can low ball you. If you don’t agree with what your car is worth, then you have the right (per the policy) to arbitrate/contest it with the insurance board for additional review. Some people always think their car is worth more than you're giving them, but have no clue what the value should be. Just more than what you're giving them like you're are trying to negotiate the payout which there is no way you can.



WAS said:
My statements aren't just directed to auto insurance, but to insurance in general. Insurance companies love to parade that they're there to help you and make sure you're financially covered, but in reality it isn't the case, and it happens more often than it should that you have to fight with them to get anything.
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Unless you know your Auto Policy, how can you assume what is covered? When’s the last time you read your insurance policy? Don you know what grade of parts your company is allowed to you if you have a loss? I’d say 99%+ of people don’t. People think they are covered for things all the time (like Scott thought he had rental), but when the policy is reviewed people are all up in arms that their insurance company is ripping them off. Imagine how many people insured with Progressive/Geico/All State think/assume they are entitled to brand new parts on their brand new 1 day old car when it gets into an accident. Wrong! They’re allowed (based on how many Insurance Companies write their policies "to save you $") to utilize Used or Aftermarket parts (even safety crash parts) and there’s nothing you can do about it because it says it in the policy. But, because the agent didn’t inform them upfront about what they are signing up for they again raise the arms like they’ve been cheated again. I guess that’s the Insurance Company’s fault too?



WAS said:
Also, in Scott's case, I wasn't saying that he's going to have issues. In his scenario, the other driver was clearly at fault while comitting a felony criminal offense. His case should be very straight forward.
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And again, (not referring to Scott’s case) just because you’re drunk driving while in an accident it doesn’t mean you are at fault for the accident. That’s what it’s like in this country atleast.
 
David-I can understand Farmers wanting to wait for the police report but once it obviously stated their policy holder was at fault in the accident, all the delay tactics should have stopped immediately and they didn't.



I do have the option of taking my insurance company's offer minus my deductible but if Farmers actually gets on the ball and does an appraisal of the damage and makes me a reasonable offer, I'd rather wait a few days on them so I don't have to wait who-knows-how-long for them to pay me back my deductible. They drag it out, I will take Nationwide's offer and let Farmer's incur the extra expensive of having to deal with my insurance company instead of making it quick and easy between us. My lawyer is only involved on the injury claim side, no amount of lawyering is going to get me enough over what I'll be offered for my car to make it worth giving them 1/3rd of that amount.



What I can't understand is why insurance companies don't bend over backward for you when their policy holder causes an accident. You'd think they would at least try to get back their money by treating you well and winning your business as a new policy holder. Farmers, on the other hand, seems hell bent on making sure I never consider buying a policy from them and trashing them to everyone I know.
 
David Fermani said:
Wrong. Auto Insurance is not like Health Insurance. And I have no interest defending or interreting their rationales. I do think the premiums are way out of hand. Auto policies are way less complicated and it's not fair to pair them together. I can’t remember the last success story I heard about US based health insurance, but I’m sure there are success stories, but I can’t remember if I’ve ever heard one. Tell me the LAW (in the USA) that says that Auto Insurance companies are required to put their shareholders above all other interests in their business? You’d think after almost 7 years in the Insurance business I would have heard what our main directive is?





As far as Mitigation of payouts, yes, that’s my job. To make sure the claim is fairly paid utilizing the most up to date, cost effective products/processes to return the vehicle to pre-loss condition. If I can find a part that is more cost effective and identical, then what’s so wrong with writing for it if the end result is unchanged? We also make sure that your Body Shop isn’t ripping you off as you’d be amazed with how much fraud there is in this sector. I personally assess the repair of a vehicle thinking as if it were my own getting fixed. And actually get several compliments for doing so.



Unless you know your Auto Policy, how can you assume what is covered? When’s the last time you read your insurance policy? Don you know what grade of parts your company is allowed to you if you have a loss? I’d say 99%+ of people don’t. People think they are covered for things all the time (like Scott thought he had rental), but when the policy is reviewed people are all up in arms that their insurance company is ripping them off. Imagine how many people insured with Progressive/Geico/All State think/assume they are entitled to brand new parts on their brand new 1 day old car when it gets into an accident. Wrong! They’re allowed (based on how many Insurance Companies write their policies "to save you $") to utilize Used or Aftermarket parts (even safety crash parts) and there’s nothing you can do about it because it says it in the policy. But, because the agent didn’t inform them upfront about what they are signing up for they again raise the arms like they’ve been cheated again. I guess that’s the Insurance Company’s fault too?



And again, (not referring to Scott’s case) just because you’re drunk driving while in an accident it doesn’t mean you are at fault for the accident. That’s what it’s like in this country atleast.
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It is the law that every corporation have the financial interest of it's shareholders first, doesn't matter if it's an auto insurance company or a restaurant. It's the same in Canada, and the same in most western countries. That's the whole point of a corporation, and why you set one up, to remove that "moral" obligation that humans eventually encounter when doing business. In the corporate world, the corporation has no moral sense, no loyalties, nothing except the bottom line.



I can definitely understand dealing with body shops and the amount of fraud out there (insurance fraud included). I never said that the employees of insurance companies are all bad, or that they don't care. You get me wrong here, the problem is not the workers, employees, the deductables or the fine print that allows repairs to be done with used parts. The problem is fundemental in that insurance companies are NOT looking out for your best interest first, they're looking out for their own financial gain first. If that happens to go against what's in your best interest, guess what gets trumped ? This is why I believe certain services don't necessarily belong in the private corporate world.
 
Dave, I hate to burst your bubble but insurance companies are in it for profit!! The first thing is to satify the customer as economically for the insurance company! Whether thats cutting corners on repair (home auto and life). My beach house here on the coast was distroyed over 2 years ago in a huricane and I still have yet to be paid the $190000 in full to cover my costs to rebuild!! After the lawyers were brought in I finally started getting checks, but I'm $112000 short. Home owners blames wind storm, wind storm blames flood and flood blames home owners!!! I pay them almost $10000 a year in insurance for all three!! Having had family in the insurance business before don't tell me there out to help you!! There not!! If you want to know about hail damage and insurance PM me I can tell you about that! Sounds like you've had good experiances but don't be fooled! Ever had a loved one die? Try to get your life insurance to help with funeral expenses! Here in Texas they have 30 days to pay you how about 55 days!
 
Scottwax said:
15 days since the accident and still no offer on my car from Farmers. Took them 9 days to put me in a rental.
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Scott, hang in there, don't let them wear you down. Just keep documenting every time you talk to them and every persons name. Your lawyer will love all this and you'll get more $ in the end. Its a game, play your cards right and you'll win everytime, the law is on your side even though the company will try to squirm its way out of anything.
 
17 days now since the accident, 6 days since they looked at my car and not even an offer on it. I guess I will keep racking up the miles and rental charges on the Malibu they put me in.
 
Wow, I just read this one.



First, good to hear both you, and specially your son, are OK. The fact that the car got totalled and both of you are fine is a testament to the advances in modern cars' engineering. In the end, the most important thing is the occupants safety, and that was provided in spades. Good to hear you are ok.



Now, back into business. Hang tight in there. I am sure you have already checked the price of your car in KBB/edmunds/nada guides to give you an idea. While the car is in showroom condition, the adjusters go for mileage and MY first :( I wonder if you can take out more stuff out of the car (tires, radio, floor mats, etc)



Have you been looking for a replacement yet?



Good luck and hopefully everything will be solved.







Alex
 
Scott do you have rental car on your insurance thats paying for the car? Reason I ask is I had it and thought it would cover my rental expenses while my car was in the shop. It doesn't, it does have a dollar amount my was $1200 I think. After that it's all on you! You shouldn't have the problem I did though. Mine was in the shop for almost 6 weeks! Crazy weather huh!
 
maxepr1 said:
Scott do you have rental car on your insurance thats paying for the car? Reason I ask is I had it and thought it would cover my rental expenses while my car was in the shop. It doesn't, it does have a dollar amount my was $1200 I think. After that it's all on you! You shouldn't have the problem I did though. Mine was in the shop for almost 6 weeks! Crazy weather huh!
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Insurance is paying for the rental at least through next Thursday, they said their policy is to allow 7 days rental after an offer is made on a totaled car. Problem is I didn't get one for the first 9 days so if I haven't replaced my car, I'm going to request additional time due to the length of time it took them (the other guy's insurance, Farmer's) to put me in a car.



Big problem is Farmer's, who just signed on for naming rights for $700 million for a stadium in LA that hasn't been built for a team to be named later, low-balled me big time on my car, a good $700 less than my insurance company offered. So now my insurance company is going to pay me off, minus my deductible and Farmers will have to reimburse me that. No idea why Farmer's doesn't simply match what Nationwide (my insurance company) offered and deal with me directly, instead of now having to negotiate a price with Nationwide to settle the claim plus pay me my deductible. :nixweiss
 
That's a shame Scott! To haggle over $700, good customer service. If you even thought about changing insurance companies you lost a future customer Farmers!! Scott the hard part now is getting you deductable from them! Even though there client was arrested and at fault they will drag there feet and give you every excuse not to pay you! But sounds like your being persistant. Being a pain in there *** is what is going to get you paid! That's exactly what I had to do with my wifes car a couple of years ago. It took about 7 months but I finally got my $500 back!
 
Many years ago, someone slid into my parked car on a snowy day and did about $400 in damage to it. The people who hit me had Allstate and it was taking forever to get them to cut me a check. Finally, I took my kids down to their office (they were about 18 months and 3 1/2 at the time) and let them tear apart the waiting room. Had a check in 30 minutes. :lol
 
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