Can you tell the Difference (pic)

Bence said:
Sooner or later we SHOULD reach the critical mass... ;)
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There are some that don't seem to want to know and get defensive of their favorite products as soon as any source is pointed at. *I* know that *I* have seen enough to *know* that at the very least we've been lied to.
 
SpoiledMan said:
*I* know that *I* have seen enough to *know* that at the very least we've been lied to.
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About these towels? I don't think AutoGeek lied about anything, and interestingly, the price is down to $5.99 now.
 
OK. Here's some more re-branding/re-packaging to argue about. :grinno:

Generic brands . . . the stuff you see in the supermarket/drug store where the brand on the packaging is the name of the store is not made by the store. All of these generic brand products are made by the name brand companies. So, your Stop & Shop brand Corn Flakes are likely made right next to your Kellog's Frosted Flakes. I have yet to see any indication on any generic product of what name brand company makes any of these products. Meanwhile, the name brand version of the same product is sold for significantly more money.

Sherman8r44 said:
Well, you just brought up my second favorite car to pick on. I still don't really understand why someone would pay 5K more for a coupe version of a Boxter S. Those marketing geniouses at Porsche have done quite will for themselves on this one! Typically people pay more for the convertible, even with 15hp more (less rigidity is expected)!



. . . the Lexus does have more upscale interior appointments (and very comfortable seats). Enough to deny that the Camry and ES are extremely similar machines? Absolutely not!
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Boxter-Cayman :confused: only coupe/convertible I can remember where the coupe version is sold for more. This along with the Camry/ES example just goes to show you how important a good marketing program is to sales. The marketers have essentially managed to convince all these people that these products are not almost the same thing.

BenP said:
I'm not going to read all of this thread because it seems this topic comes up at least once a month and quite frankly it gets really really boring. Everybody really needs to change the record.
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Did you put the same note in the thread that was started today about removing cement from a car? I've only seen that thread like every week. There was also probably 10 threads started today about "I'm a newb. What products should I buy?" or "what's the best XXX?" Autopia is a place for discussion whether the discussion has been had before or not. I just don't read the the thread if I'm not interested.
 
Your ES and a Camry shares the engine, the suspensions, the main structure, the drivetrain - essentially the entire mechanicals.
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I'm not sure this is true. A car buddy of mine believes the ES has a different suspension and transmission than the Camry. However, let's assume these are the same. Does that make them the same car? No. You did get better build quality and paint and different performance characteristics and that is what I paid extra for. With rebranded detailing products you may have the exact same item and different packaging. My point is that the two examples are very different.



As for the Cayman, I believe it has a different engine (definitely different tuning) and suspension. In that case as well, an extra $10K goes a long way. I have read several reviews on this car and most feel it handles not only better than the Boxster but the 911 as well.



By the way, I am very familiar with the Windom but that is quite different too.



IDK why you keep insisting that the ES handles better than the Camry. IMO both to have an overweight feeling, but the Camry is slightly quicker on it's feet than the ES (the suspension is obviously tuned more towards ride and it is heavier). The Camry SE (with the 3.3 liter) does 0-60 in 7.0, while the ES330 takes 7.5. Yes, the Lexus does have more upscale interior appointments (and very comfortable seats). Enough to deny that the Camry and ES are extremely similar machines? Absolutely not!
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Your acceleration numbers are a bit off. My car has been timed at 7.0 seconds and several of the auto mags also got the same numbers.



The reason I am making a strong case here is that you are implying the Camry is essentially the same car which I know to be false. I have had two ESs and a Toyota Camry which my wife drives. Several neighbors have the new Camry and I know that car well too. They are very different automobiles. The quality of manufacture is different and the performance is different. The Camry does not corner as well nor is the paint as high a quality. Interior noise is higher on the Camry. Dealership experience is far below that of Lexus. I take both cars in for service and it's night and day in customer service...



It's not like Lexus slapped on a badge and raised the price. They are built on different assembly lines to different standards for different markets & users.



I can understand if people don't want to pay extra $ for the more luxurious car but don't tell me they are the same when I know they are not.
 
SpoiledMan said:
There are some that don't seem to want to know and get defensive of their favorite products as soon as any source is pointed at. *I* know that *I* have seen enough to *know* that at the very least we've been lied to.
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I don't see why people feel like they're being lied to here. Did you email Autogeek and asked if these are the same towels that SMP sells for less and they told you no? That might be considered lying. Selling the same product that someone else sells at a different price is hardly lying.
 
SilverLexus said:
I'm not sure this is true. A car buddy of mine believes the ES has a different suspension and transmission than the Camry. However, let's assume these are the same. Does that make them the same car? No. You did get better build quality and paint and different performance characteristics and that is what I paid extra for. With rebranded detailing products you may have the exact same item and different packaging. My point is that the two examples are very different.



As for the Cayman, I believe it has a different engine (definitely different tuning) and suspension. In that case as well, an extra $10K goes a long way. I have read several reviews on this car and most feel it handles not only better than the Boxster but the 911 as well.



Your acceleration numbers are a bit off. My car has been timed at 7.0 seconds and several of the auto mags also got the same numbers.



The reason I am making a strong case here is that you are implying the Camry is essentially the same car which I know to be false. I have had two ESs and a Toyota Camry which my wife drives. Several neighbors have the new Camry and I know that car well too. They are very different automobiles. The quality of manufacture is different and the performance is different. The Camry does not corner as well nor is the paint as high a quality. Interior noise is higher on the Camry. Dealership experience is far below that of Lexus. I take both cars in for service and it's night and day in customer service...



It's not like Lexus slapped on a badge and raised the price. They are built on different assembly lines to different standards for different markets & users.



I can understand if people don't want to pay extra $ for the more luxurious car but don't tell me they are the same when I know they are not.
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My bad, the correct 0-60 for your car is 7.2 seconds



The Cayman handles better than the Boxter because it is a coupe, which by nature has better rigity. Does that mean it is a different car? NO! Any coupe version of a car will handle better than the convertible due to that fact. And again, the engine is a slightly bored out version of the same engine (3.6 versus 3.4 litres) which makes 15hp more, but again it is not enough to deny that they are extremely similar cars.



The Camry has the exact same 5-speed auto that the ES has, and the same suspension(though tuned a slight bit differently). Same suspension+Same Chassis (the meat of the car)+Same engine+same drivetrain+almost same body=unbelievably similar cars. The Lexus is just a Camry in a Tuxedo and makeup (I like that one Bence :grinno: ), the tuxedo and makeup being the paint, sound insulation, interior trim, and styling. They may be made on different assembly lines but they were engineered from the same blueprints. They ARE essencially the same car, which I know to be true.
 
The Lexus acceleration numbers are very conservative as most mags will tell you. :)



The Cayman handles better than the Boxter because it is a coupe, which by nature has better rigity.
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The Cayman design team also tuned it that way.



Maybe we just have an honest disagreement here Sherman. I think the Cayman is a different car because it performs differently.



The Camry has the exact same 5-speed auto that the ES has, and the same suspension(though tuned a slight bit differently).
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I believe the automatic transmission is different based on recent conversations with some car buddies of mine. The platform of both cars may be the same but again the final result is quite different. Think about rigidity in the body panels. The Camry doors are somewhat light and make a "clink" type sound when they close. The ES330 doors are heavier, smoother and make a "klunk" noise when shut. The difference is extra cross-bracing, better soundproofing materials, and better engineering. This adds up to a longer lasting car and a better fit and finish. Another example is body panel fit and finish. Look at the gap in panels on the Camry - pretty good overall but relatively wider than the ES panels. The Camry is a nice car for the money but not nearly at the same standard as the ES330. You also have to figure in differences in features that are standard and optional. You can't get a Levinson sound system in the Camry or moveable pedals or as good a nav system.



I am confident you would be in agreement with me if you lived with both cars like I have for six years.
 
Mikeyc said:
I don't see why people feel like they're being lied to here. Did you email Autogeek and asked if these are the same towels that SMP sells for less and they told you no? That might be considered lying. Selling the same product that someone else sells at a different price is hardly lying.
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I already stated it's not about the towels.
 
wow im sure autogeek saw this thread. Infact i know they did. They dropped the price 1$ Incredible on how Forums play a major role on these products. I love it !
 
gxlex said:
Autogeek dropped their price $1 and SMP increase their $1 lol
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:hmph: Actually SMP had them originally for 5$ but with thespecial they were 3.79 it was a special Scott had running for a week. Autogeek in the other hand had to drop it. :nervous:
 
Lee, the whole FWD platform line (Camry, RX330, Highlander, Solara, ES330, Windom, etc.) uses the same 3MZ-FE engine/U151E 5spd. transmission combo. They ARE mechanically the same.



When a car performs differently, it isn't necessarily a different car. A stock Accord and a tuned Accord is the same, but they just behave differently. A new BMW 5-series is a totally different car compared to the first ones. The difference? Only the software (recently around the 19th or 20th update; don't ask why...) is different, but the cars behave differently. Based on the feel alone they are completely unrelated to each other.
 
Miami_vice said:
:hmph: Actually SMP had them originally for 5$ but with thespecial they were 3.79 it was a special Scott had running for a week. Autogeek in the other hand had to drop it. :nervous:
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Also Autogeek dropped the price $2, from 7.99 to 5.99
 
Wow, I can't believe this thread is 9 pages long. A couple of points that came up during the 6 pages since I posted last.



1. Of course it's to the consumer's best interest to find the best product for the cheapest price, it's just not the job of a business to help you find it over their product.



2. I got hopped on that the cheaper towel place has great service too, didn't mean they didn't. Just that there is more that goes into running a business. And we also don't know if both companies have the same supplier or the same cost to get the product.



3. The Cayman's engine is built off a 996 water cooled engine. So it does not come from the current Boxster at all. But the rest of the car is pretty much a Boxster S. The suspension is tighter since the car is more rigid being a coupe.



Mikeyc, you're funny, only if you could read my sig. I don't own a Lexus, in fact, there is no Lexus I would really want (but the IS350 peaks my curiosity). I'm just a car enthusiast. It was nice to learn that they share many parts. I didn't realize how close a vehicle they were to each other. But I can't stand when people rail others for paying extra money for some of the niceties that another car offers over another.
 
Nah, you don't have to. It has a knock sensor and it retards the timing a bit and you motor on. In most cases you can't even tell.
 
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