Can This Bad Paint Job Be Corrected? Pics Inside...

P

P Rock

New member
<span style="color:#ff0000;"><span style="font-size:18px;">EDIT: Paint was corrected. Scroll down to post #18 for the results and how I corrected this. 


 


This is my daily driver I bought over the winter - It's a 2011 Audi S4 finished in "meteor gray pearl effect". The previous owner got into a minor accident (I saw pictures of it before it was repaired). All cosmetic damage that was repaired through the insurance company. But whoever did the repair did a REALLY bad job with the paintwork. Although the color seems to match correctly, there's no gloss whatsoever.


Before I even consider a repaint, I'm researching other options to give it the same gloss as the rest of the car. Pictures are below and you can see how bad it is...it's borderline matte finish!


 


Fender is original paint, hood is clearly not (click thumbnail for hi-res pic).





 


Passenger fender:





 





 





 


Thanks in advance for any input, it's very much appreciated.
 
Jesstzn said:
If your concidering a repaint anyway , and if you have the tools... Wet sand it.
Click to expand...


 


I'm not experienced enough to wetsand but if that's a less expensive alternative to a repaint, then I'm willing to pay to have it done.
 
He's saying give it a try. If you're going to repaint it anyway it's worth a shot. Worse you'll do is mess it up to the point it needs a repaint...


I clicked on the pic but got no high res pics. Since I'm on my phone I can't really see a huge difference.
 
That is a very bad orange peel. It "can" be corrected by wetsanding "if" the clearcoat is sufficiently thick.


 


In case you're not confident of doing a proper wetsanding job, then you can take it to some pro detailer near you who can.
 
denim pad wont fix that.


 


wetsand with 2000, 2500, 3000 to get desired look (start with 3000)


 


Then compound away the sanding scratches, then polish to remove the compound haze, then final polish to restore the gloss.
 
Envious Eric said:
denim pad wont fix that.


 


wetsand with 2000, 2500, 3000 to get desired look (start with 3000)


 


Then compound away the sanding scratches, then polish to remove the compound haze, then final polish to restore the gloss.
Click to expand...


 


This seems to be the route.... I've searched and searched and found a couple other similar situations on repaints. I just learned "shrinking" is the term for this issue and it's due to poor preparation.  


I have a Griot's Garage DA and I'm planning to tackle the wetsand myself....but not right away. Once I have more knowledge from scouring the net. I've successfully compounded a car before so I'm up for the challenge of wetsanding but I need to do a lot more research first.


So I start with 3000 then go straight into 2500 then straight into 2000? What kind of pads? What kind of chemicals for the "wet" part of wetsanding?


 


Thanks
 
P Rock:


I think Envious Eric advice is start with 3000 grit as the least-aggressive grit to see it removes the imperfections FIRST. If it does not, you may need to move to a more aggressive grit, like 2500. Most of the time car  painters start with 2000, then 2500, then 3000 (course to finer grits in progression) to remove any imperfections and orange peel ,then progress to compounding and polishing. Yes, it's a very time-consuming, labor-intensive process, which is why great paint jobs, properly done,  cost a lot. There are resident Autopian professional detailers who have made a name (and living) for themselves doing this to "correct" bad paint jobs; Barry Theile comes to mind. Make no mistake: wet sanding is an art-form that requires talent/skill, knowledge, and experience.


 


  If you've never done wet-sanding before, it's best to practice on something first before trying it on your pride-and joy car. The refrigerator in the basement or garage are good candidates. If you can remove the orange peel from appliance paint satisfactorily, then you can progress to your car.


 


Paint thickness is another issue. Without the use of a Paint Thickness Gauge tool (expensive to own for the occasional detailing do-it-yourselfer), you are blind and guessing how much paint is there to remove, or how much you've removed in the process of wet-sanding. Sanding through the garage refrigerator is no big deal compared sanding through the edge of a fender or bend in side quarter panel or hood, typically having thinner paint points than flatter areas.


 


Not saying it cannot be done: just caveats to watch out for.
 
You should be able to get that looking like the OEM paint fairly easily IMO.


 


I'd probably do 1500/3000 grit as it will be more effective, but paint hardness can be a factor too. Starting with 3000 would take much longer and not level as well if you're using finishing discs. Contact Kevin Brown at Buffdaddy.com and he'll get you set up with everything you need.


 


Here is another one I just finished up and I really didn't sand the paint all that much to get these results.


 


http://www.autopia.org/forum/topic/133324-e30-m3-multi-step-correction-and-partial-wet-sanding/
 
Lonnie said:
P Rock:


I think Envious Eric advice is start with 3000 grit as the least-aggressive grit to see it removes the imperfections FIRST. If it does not, you may need to move to a more aggressive grit, like 2500. Most of the time car  painters start with 2000, then 2500, then 3000 (course to finer grits in progression) to remove any imperfections and orange peel ,then progress to compounding and polishing. Yes, it's a very time-consuming, labor-intensive process, which is why great paint jobs, properly done,  cost a lot. There are resident Autopian professional detailers who have made a name (and living) for themselves doing this to "correct" bad paint jobs; Barry Theile comes to mind. Make no mistake: wet sanding is an art-form that requires talent/skill, knowledge, and experience.


 


  If you've never done wet-sanding before, it's best to practice on something first before trying it on your pride-and joy car. The refrigerator in the basement or garage are good candidates. If you can remove the orange peel from appliance paint satisfactorily, then you can progress to your car.


 


Paint thickness is another issue. Without the use of a Paint Thickness Gauge tool (expensive to own for the occasional detailing do-it-yourselfer), you are blind and guessing how much paint is there to remove, or how much you've removed in the process of wet-sanding. Sanding through the garage refrigerator is no big deal compared sanding through the edge of a fender or bend in side quarter panel or hood, typically having thinner paint points than flatter areas.


 


Not saying it cannot be done: just caveats to watch out for.
Click to expand...


Lonnie, That was extremely helpful and I appreciate that. As you can see, I have a lot to learn before I take the plunge but I'm doing my due diligence. I remember before I started compounding, I was also scared but once I started, I picked it up very quickly and restored a car with 10 year old paint. So another noob question is, besides the proper sanding pads and a quality DA, what chemicals are needed? What's the "wet" in wetsanding?  


 
RaskyR1 said:
You should be able to get that looking like the OEM paint fairly easily IMO.


 


I'd probably do 1500/3000 grit as it will be more effective, but paint hardness can be a factor too. Starting with 3000 would take much longer and not level as well if you're using finishing discs. Contact Kevin Brown at Buffdaddy.com and he'll get you set up with everything you need.


 


Here is another one I just finished up and I really didn't sand the paint all that much to get these results.


 


http://www.autopia.org/forum/topic/133324-e30-m3-multi-step-correction-and-partial-wet-sanding/
Click to expand...


RaskyR1, it was this thread you linked that showed me what the issue is with my paint....Although mine isn't as bad as the paint on that BMW M3. What denotes a "partial" wetsanding? How long are you staying on a section or how many times do you go over a section to ensure I don't take too much paint off?   


 


Also.....how many sanding pads should I buy for both fenders and the hood. How much area will each sanding disk cover? I'm looking at Meguiar's Unigrit 6" foam finishing disks. Just don't know how many to get for this project. 
 
Odds are a crappy paint job has minimal clear coat thickness so don't be surprised if you either go through it wetsanding, or can't get as much improvement as you want. 
 
P Rock said:
Lonnie, That was extremely helpful and I appreciate that. As you can see, I have a lot to learn before I take the plunge but I'm doing my due diligence. I remember before I started compounding, I was also scared but once I started, I picked it up very quickly and restored a car with 10 year old paint. So another noob question is, besides the proper sanding pads and a quality DA, what chemicals are needed? What's the "wet" in wetsanding?  


 


RaskyR1, it was this thread you linked that showed me what the issue is with my paint....Although mine isn't as bad as the paint on that BMW M3. What denotes a "partial" wetsanding? How long are you staying on a section or how many times do you go over a section to ensure I don't take too much paint off?   


 


Also.....how many sanding pads should I buy for both fenders and the hood. How much area will each sanding disk cover? I'm looking at Meguiar's Unigrit 6" foam finishing disks. Just don't know how many to get for this project. 
Click to expand...


 


I said "partial wet sanding" because I only sanded part of the car. ;)


 


There are far to many variables involved to get caught up in how long I stayed in an area or how many times I went over it. Your goal is to simply knock down most of the peaks in the paint and you should let the paint tell you when you've sanded enough. Keep in mind you're not going after a show car finish here and you don't need to sand to totally flat surface. I don't really have any good pics that show partially sanded/leveled paint, but hopefully these will help you understand. In these pics I was going for a flatter finish then you'll need to do.


 


Part before sanding





 


This is after sanding lightly by hand. I stopped, wiped the part off with a towel and let it dry so that I could see where it still needed more sanding. The dull spots are where the high points have been sanded down too and the glossy spots are the low points in the paint. I would suggest you perform a test spot first by lightly sand the paint with 1500 to the point where you can still see some low points and then switch over to 3000 grit to refine the paint more and to remove the 1500 sanding marks.





 


This is how it would look when it's fully leveled (sorry for the out of focus pic), though you don't need to sand this far as you simply want it to match the factory paint texture.





 


All polished out





 


 


I would highly suggest calling Kevin Brown at buffdaddy.com and leaving him a voice mail telling him what you're looking to do. He will set you up with everything you need and give you additional guidance. I would strongly suggest practicing on a scrap panel first to get a feel for it.


 


Kevin Brown


805-478-1658
 
Here is a perfect example of what your goal should be taken from a user over on Autogeek. Your paint should be sanded with 1500 grit sanding discs or paper on a hard block to look similar (probably a tad more) to the left side of the panel, then refine with 3000 finishing disks or paper with a softer block by hand.


 


Thread


http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/27450-difference-between-wet-sand-heavy-compound.html


 


Pneu_DA2.jpg



 


 
 
pwaug said:
Why not give the Denim and Velvet Orange Peel removal pad from CarPro a shot.  You never know they may give you results that are acceptable to you and save yourself the cost of a repaint.   Corey is very helpful so drop him a note or give him a call with any questions.   http://www.carpro-us.com/5-1-4-denim-orange-peel-removal-pad/
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This may be the route I'm going to take. I like that it sands and compounds in the same step. Seems to be just as "dangerous" as wetsanding though so I'd want to learn as much about it as I can before starting the job also. Thinking about using these pads with Meguiar's #105.. but in that thread, the poster prefers Menzerna FG400. Not sure if that upgrade warrants spending another $30 on the Menzerna product. 


 
RaskyR1 said:
Here is a perfect example of what your goal should be taken from a user over on Autogeek. Your paint should be sanded with 1500 grit sanding discs or paper on a hard block to look similar (probably a tad more) to the left side of the panel, then refine with 3000 finishing disks or paper with a softer block by hand.


 


Thread


http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/ask-expert-featuring-mike-phillips/27450-difference-between-wet-sand-heavy-compound.html


 


 
Click to expand...


You've been incredibly helpful. Your post on your orange peel restoration was amazing. How do you feel about the product above (CarPro Denim pads)?
 
P Rock said:
You've been incredibly helpful. Your post on your orange peel restoration was amazing. How do you feel about the product above (CarPro Denim pads)?
Click to expand...


LOL. I've had them sitting on the shelf for over 6 months now and I just haven't had time to try them yet. I had planned to test them on my own car.


 


Call me old school, but I believe sanding is much more precise and you can better monitor how much you've leveled and what areas still need more leveling. For a case like your car though their definitely worth looking into and they've been shown to work very well by many reputable detailers.


 


Rasky
 
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<p style="margin-left:0px;">Ok, here are the pics...I decided to try CarPro's denim orange peel removal pads before I went the sanding route. I would like to thank David Fermani and pwaug for first suggesting these. After some research, I decided to try it out. I still have a question regarding the last pic down...question is above the pic. 
<p style="margin-left:0px;"> 
<p style="margin-left:0px;">I used Griot's Garage random orbital with Menzerna FG400 then finished with Menzerna ultra finishing polish 1500. I used 5.25" CarPro denim orange peel pads starting with the 1 setting to spread product around them moving up to 6. I bought 3 pads for this job. My only complaint was they caked up pretty fast and loses their effectiveness once they're caked up. A very, very mild complaint considering how AWESOME they worked. They may have caked up fast due to me using too much product so this may have been my fault. After cleaning the pads with a clean toothbrush and warm water, I let them dry and resumed the job the next day. I tried to resume the job sooner but I learned when they're not completely dry, they sling product/water everywhere.  Guess this is standard with any type of pad though. On to the after pics......
<p style="margin-left:0px;"> 
<p style="margin-left:0px;">BEFORE:
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upload pics
 
AFTER:


adult photo hosting
 


free jpeg images
 
Question about the pic below....as you can see, I didn't do the edges (bottom and towards the windshield). You can clearly see the dull areas towards the bottom and by the windshield. I was being cautious and trying to keep the edge of the pad away from corners. Any advice appreciated. 


image hosting gif



 
 
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