Can I just spray off iron remover?

[bennylava]

They say you`re definitely supposed to do it before you clay, and that you`ll notice the clay picks up a lot less iron. Which does seem to me that you`d want to do, cause the clay is actually going to rub some of that iron into the clear coat as you drag it along. So you`d want to get as much of it off as you could without having to drag it across the clear. That is why I was asking if you could just spray the iron remover on, and not wipe it or rub it in. Just let it sit and spray it back off. So the dragging it on the clear, is minimized.

 

[Accumulator]

Whenever I`ve done a chemical decon with AI/VG`s ABC, I`ve apparently removed any/all ferrous contamination. ZERO rustblooms or other evidence of residual contamination. NONE. Whether I clayed during the decon or not.

I would never expect IPA to remove wax. A guy who knows more about this stuff than I do once challenged me to drop a flake of paste wax into a jar of IPA and see what happens...he predicted that it`d remain OK because according to him the IPA simply doesn`t dissolve/etc. wax. I never did try it but I`d be mighty surprised if he were wrong. When ONR v2.0 was compromising Collinite 476S, some reported they "rejuvenated" the seemingly trashed Collinite by gently wiping it with IPA! Apparently that removed whatever it was that the ONR caused without damaging the remaining Collinite.

Anyhow...For some reason I get the feeling that we`re overkilling this whole Decontamination thing. Yeah, it can be important and I guess I`m one of the guys who`s always going on about it, but is it *really* a common problem? Sure, situational/subjective/etc. but I still can`t help but think that it`s probably not all that necessary. Ohio winters, living in a woods, letting the vehicles get really dirty between washes...you`d think I`d have to decon a lot. But nah, a quick gentle claying every few years with quickie spot-claying as needed during the washes does it for me. The Decon Chemicals I sing the praises of just sit on my shelf because I don`t need them.

 

[PoweredByJenga]

Hi benylava,
With decons, it really depends on the state of your car before you start. The main idea is to safety remove as much as possible of the visible and embedded contaminants as possible before claying (and polishing).

My cars are daily drivers however they live in garage at nigh and living in sunny Australia means i dont get many contaminants that are found on winter roads in usa or europe. I decon just before polishing or application of coatings. This involves wash with NON ph neutral alkaline soap (no wash and wax), quick dry with leaf blower. This is followed by iron x on the whole car (with a light spread with MF as panels are done). Pressure rinse and an application of wax and grease remover (think strong tar remover) follows. This is again followed by pressure rinse. Dry it and the car is ready for clay baring.

Once the car is clay bared i do another quick car wash to remove any oils from lubricants. It does take time but once a year or every 2 years i can live with it

Hope this helps.

Sent from my MI MAX using Tapatalk

 

[jatleson]

Whenever I`ve done a chemical decon with AI/VG`s ABC, I`ve apparently removed any/all ferrous contamination. ZERO rustblooms or other evidence of residual contamination. NONE. Whether I clayed during the decon or not.

I would never expect IPA to remove wax. A guy who knows more about this stuff than I do once challenged me to drop a flake of paste wax into a jar of IPA and see what happens...he predicted that it`d remain OK because according to him the IPA simply doesn`t dissolve/etc. wax. I never did try it but I`d be mighty surprised if he were wrong. When ONR v2.0 was compromising Collinite 476S, some reported they "rejuvenated" the seemingly trashed Collinite by gently wiping it with IPA! Apparently that removed whatever it was that the ONR caused without damaging the remaining Collinite.

Anyhow...For some reason I get the feeling that we`re overkilling this whole Decontamination thing. Yeah, it can be important and I guess I`m one of the guys who`s always going on about it, but is it *really* a common problem? Sure, situational/subjective/etc. but I still can`t help but think that it`s probably not all that necessary. Ohio winters, living in a woods, letting the vehicles get really dirty between washes...you`d think I`d have to decon a lot. But nah, a quick gentle claying every few years with quickie spot-claying as needed during the washes does it for me. The Decon Chemicals I sing the praises of just sit on my shelf because I don`t need them.

For most cars on the road, I agree with the above. I just worked on a 2017 SRT Jeep this weekend with 8500 miles. The amount of iron contamination was extremely high. Two round with McKee`s Iron Remover and there were still plenty of rust blooms that needed clay.

Environment has some influence on the contamination, but the type of brakes a car uses is a huge culprit, as well as the type of paint protection that is used. The SRT uses extremely aggressive Brembo`s. The brakes are the big culprit on the amount of contamination on this particular car (most of it was low behind the wheels and tailgate).

Client didn`t want a coating here, but this is the ideal situation for a coating.

 

[bennylava]

Anyhow...For some reason I get the feeling that we`re overkilling this whole Decontamination thing. ... is it *really* a common problem?

That is something I was also hoping to get from this thread. On this new corolla, I just suspect that its not. I`ll spray the iron remover on there, but I have my doubts. On my 200k mile Toyota Yaris (that still has nice paint) however, I`ll be a lot more suspicious and will go over the car much more thoroughly.

But.. drying with a leaf blower, you say? And not house towels? Lol. I`ll break out the leaf blower and some ear plugs. I`ll be honest here guys, I do enough work on a regular basis that I don`t relish all this detail work. I do want the work done though. Thus I`m looking to work smarter, not harder. As smart as possible actually. That is also why I was asking if its really necessary to completely and utterly get any old LSP`s off the car before applying the collinite. I`d really like to be able to just put that stuff on there after I wash the car with Adams Car Shampoo.

 

[rlmccarty2000]

When waxing I’ve never bothered to remove the old wax. I’ve always assumed that the solvents in the new layer of wax would remove the previous layer of wax. Whether it does or not I’ve always been happy with the results of a new layer of wax. Coatings are a whole different animal with having to polish off the old coating. I like coatings but they are a whole lot of work compared to the simplicity of waxing. I never had anxiety from applying wax while applying a coating keeps me up the night before game planning and praying I don’t leave any high spots.

 

[Accumulator]

jatleson- Funny about the brakes...I`ve had pretty much every (iron rotor) brake system imaginable, and I *still* never had any bodywork-contamination issue! Some wheels would`ve done the Color-Indicator thing for fifty applications I`m sure (had I cared), but I just never had it on the body. OK, I`ll quit belaboring my good luck and just be happy about it

bennylava- IMO you`ll notice some sign of trouble if your car really does need decontaminated. Rust-blooms, something. Better to avoid such stuff with [INSERT overkill regimen that I won`t do] but yeah...why assume big problems if they`re not apparent?

Oh, and BTW...when I read:

I`ll be honest here guys, I ...don`t relish all this detail work. I do want the work done though.

and

...I`m looking to work smarter, not harder. As smart as possible actually.

I think that you`re the rare Autopian who`s on my wavelength. (heh heh, I wouldn`t necessarily assume that`s a compliment )

But yeah...every time I wash I watch for contamination and I spot-clay as needed. Only takes a moment if it`s something tiny; I keep my Clay stuck to the top of the Lube`s sprayer and hook that over one of the buckets so it`s handy.

And I just do the washes that way until I either have a few spare minutes or notice a change in the beading or something, and in those cases I`ll put on another coat of my LSP. No big prep at all, hardly ever for years on end. I basically just wash.

When waxing I’ve never bothered to remove the old wax....[and]... I’ve always been happy with the results of a new layer of wax..

Heh heh, well...that makes two of us Autopian Heretics

 

[pwaug]

Heh heh, well...that makes two of us Autopian Heretics

Well this makes me feel better! If I`ve decontaminated, polished and put on a coat of FK1000 in the spring, I just wash and add another coat before winter. And, if the following year I don`t need a polish, I just wash and give it another coat of FK etc, etc. Seems to be working fine and I feel like I`m saving clear coat by not polishing every 6 months or year.

 

[bennylava]

Well I just finished up the job. Washed with adams, sprayed a little iron remover, and waxed using the collinite 915. Didn`t really see any purple. And I do have the iron remover that turns purple. Maybe there were some tiny spots, but if they were there they didn`t catch my eye. So who knows. The car is a darker color but its not black. More of a grey/blue color.

So a few questions about the collinite:



1. How long does the collinite actually take to haze over? It seemed like about 15 seconds at most. Does that sound about right? Any longer than that and it became hard to get off.

2. Would there be any benefit to applying a second coat of collinite 915?

3. How long should it be before I wax the car again? I live in TX, near the Fort worth area. Gets hot, and we sometimes have some pretty humid days. But the car will spend most of its time out of the sun. At home its parked under a carport that the sun doesn`t really get in from the side. And the wife works nights, so even when she`s at work its dark outside.

 

[Accumulator]

Well I just finished up the job. Washed with adams, sprayed a little iron remover, and waxed using the collinite 915. Didn`t really see any purple. And I do have the iron remover that turns purple. Maybe there were some tiny spots, but if they were there they didn`t catch my eye. So who knows.

See, I bet you could`ve just skipped it Sorry, not trying to convince you to cut corners (well, not trying too hard).

So a few questions about the collinite:

I`m gonna take a stab at them even though I`ve *never used* 915, only their 476S and 845.

1. How long does the collinite actually take to haze over? It seemed like about 15 seconds at most. Does that sound about right? Any longer than that and it became hard to get off.

I let all my paste waxes set up for a good long time and they all come off easily (No, I don`t use Victoria!). I might do the whole vehicle, go have lunch (OK, kinda kidding..), come back after hours and it wipes right off.

2. Would there be any benefit to applying a second coat of collinite 915?

Contrary to what somebody "proved" on the internet...IMO most paste waxes do layer to some extent even without spitshining. Two applications last a lot longer than one, simple as that. Just gotta wait a bit between them (or spitshine) to minimize solvent action.

3. How long should it be before I wax the car again?

I redo LSPs no later than when I first notice some change in a characteristic that I value:
Beading/water behavior is usually the first thing to change, followed by slickness and dirt-shedding, and then, if subjected to continued neglect, eventually the look changes (but I`d never let it get nearly that bad).

If you rewax at the first sign of anything changing, it oughta work out fine. But I`d try to stay ahead of the curve by throwing on another coat when you have the time/inclination.

But all that`s based on *other waxes*...let`s see if some 915 expert has a different take on it.

 

[SWETM]

Okay I might go overboard with the decon step before application of a fresh LSP. And it`s much about the environment you live in and what LSP and how you maintain your car. If you wash your car weekly the contaminants is going to be minor. If you have a situation where I live in the winter months where you wash your car 3-6th week. I would be amazed in whatever LSP you have that you don`t have any contaminants build up. The longer dirt sits on your the harder it is to get it off. And I still think if you don`t apply the new coat of lsp when it`s not just started to decrease. The contaminants bonds faster to the paint. So there is no culprit on how our cars is in part of contaminants. Then you have the choice of lsp too. A wax is often desolved in some pretty strong chemicals that also cleans your paint. As is some of the polish used. So take a good look at your applicator or polishing pad and see how much of dirt it`s on them. With some LSP you are going to lock the dirt in instead. Or with the polish grind them around when the pad is picking them up. So look at your paint and see if and or what contaminants you are going to handle when reapply lsp or polishing or revive your LSP. Maybe a regualar wash is needed and that`s awesome. And you could have leftovers from bugs, road grime, tar, tree sap, iron particals, water spots and so on. It`s just that many think that an iron remover does remove all of this which they don`t. A clay bar that is aggressive would be the best choice to handle alot of different contaminants. But you don`t come from that you are touching the paint when it`s dirty and the folding of the clay would be needed alot often. That`s why I like to be on the safe side that the paint is as clean as possible before touching it. And don`t anyone had a tar gunk in your drying towel or lsp removal towel. This with the tar could be that we use different kind of asphalt in our country maybe. You would be amazed in how much of tar and iron particals is build up over a winter here. But if you found a lsp that you don`t get contaminants on then I`m happy for you.

Accumulator how often do you spot clay the car?

 

[Accumulator]

SWETM- I`ll be the first to say how surprising my experience is/was! I let those two vehicles get utterly filthy between washes (the Tahoe can go, well...not just weeks sometimes ; the A8 gets washed maybe twice/month on average with less in the summer and occasionally more in the winter) yet everything just washes off and the LSP stays fine. If you`d seen the clay from when I finally did it (after years) you`d think I was pulling a fast one..it was *that* uncontaminated after doing what should`ve been nasty work.

I spot-clay at every wash, or at least I`m prepared to do so if I see any contamination. Note that I`m doing that so gently that it doesn`t compromise my LSP. I probably find something that needs claying off every third wash or so, but then if it`s tar it can be a different story altogether.

And oh, yeah! on the many variables! Some of the road salt substitutes are apparently awful, guess I`m not dealing with those since I probably would`ve noticed...just like the Love Bugs (only get those occasionally and they`ve never etched).

Hey, great point about the solvents/etc. in wax having cleaning abilities! Even something like Souveran can do some cleaning, even if some of us might say that evidence of that means the vehicle needs more serious attention.

 

[SWETM]

Is it the Sonüs Ultra Fine clay you spot clay with?

And is it cause you spot clay so often as you see/feel contaminants you think that is why you don`t get contaminants build up in the longrun?
Hehe that question got a bit long LOL.

I don`t question what you are telling about your experience. I`m honestly interested with your regimen to maintain your vehicals. And I have the Sonüs Ultra Fine clay at home but not got to use it yet. I am a bit lazy and throw chemicals on the paint instead LOL. And the draw back is that I don`t get the full longevity of the LSP I use. But the Gyeon Wet Coat that I have used this winter is so easy to use. And get me a couple of months longevity with no extra topper. On my own car I applyied Herrenfarth Sprühglanz 2 times this spring. It`s applyied like a QD/Spray Wax after washing and drying. And it`s based on Si+ Monokisel. Which I has the same behavior as a sio2 product. It has been holding up longer that I thought it would have. Will be intresting to see how it behaves after the next wash.

 

[Accumulator]

Is it the Sonüs Ultra Fine clay you spot clay with?

Yes, BUT....the latest batch is different from what I`d received previously and I`m decidedly displeased with this new version. The older, green, stuff was *MUCH* more to my liking and I doubt I`ll buy more of this new gray version. Simply different stuff and I don`t really like it.

And is it cause you spot clay so often as you see/feel contaminants you think that is why you don`t get contaminants build up in the longrun?

That might help a little, but I`m really just focused on not having nasty-looking (if minute) specks of stuff on there and I want any ferrous contamination off before it turns into rust-blooms. (Yeah, clay is imperfect for that but usually works OK for me.)

Hehe that question got a bit long LOL.

Not as long as my answer

I don`t question what you are telling about your experience. I`m honestly interested with your regimen to maintain your vehicals. And I have the Sonüs Ultra Fine clay at home but not got to use it yet. I am a bit lazy and throw chemicals on the paint instead LOL. And the draw back is that I don`t get the full longevity of the LSP I use. But the Gyeon Wet Coat that I have used this winter is so easy to use. And get me a couple of months longevity with no extra topper....

Heh heh, hey...*DO* question anything that seems weird/wrong/questionable/etc.! I`ve come to realize that my experiences aren`t necessarily the norm and if I can help anybody get more with less I`d love to.

If your Sonus SFX is the gray stuff, I`ll be interested to hear how you like it. Had I not had the previous green stuff I`d probably like it OK but now I`m spoiled. I do find that their clay(s) work best with their Glyde lube.

Ixnay on that "throw chemicals" Do things...everything...right and life works out better IME. But anyhow..ya know, I`ve never had my LSPs fail prematurely due to insufficient prep, and I hardly ever do anything for prep at all! I`ll just be washing for ages and then decide to throw (uh-oh, now *I* am throwing chemicals on the paint!) and still get the incredible durability here that some probably find hard to believe.

On my wife`s car, for the last..uhm..gee, almost three years now..I`ve just been using either OCW or IUDJ as a Drying Aid with no "real"/conventional LSP. No problems with it at all, so what you`re doing with the Wet Coat sounds sensible to me.

These days I`m all about keeping our vehicles in *my* version of OK condition with as little work as possible. To my pleasant surprise, it`s going well...and my version of "OK" sets the bar *awfully* high.

 

[SWETM]

Yes it`s the grey Sonüs clay. Will be report how I like about it.

It was only little over a year ago I started digging in to thoroughly maintain my car. I have a disability so I used the car brush wash tunnel when I washed the car I had before the Kia cee`d SW. So when I started buying detailing products the Sonüs Ultra Fine clay was at a sale and did not know really what it was but liked in the description of it that you could clay and have the LSP intact afterwards. I had the car polished at the dealership last spring. And they did a great job and I thank your favorite polisher cyclo for that which they used. Now I have problem to find a place where I can polish and protect my car in. Just got the keys to a place with a wash bay which you can wash and 18-wheeler in it. Have to sort out how long and so I can use it at a time. And will doing a claying before a final polish and compound. So have been waiting to claying before this and just done some chemical decons. But do I have time the next washes I will test the Sonüs clay out.

 

[Lonnie]

For most cars on the road, I agree with the above. I just worked on a 2017 SRT Jeep this weekend with 8500 miles. The amount of iron contamination was extremely high. Two round with McKee`s Iron Remover and there were still plenty of rust blooms that needed clay.

Environment has some influence on the contamination, but the type of brakes a car uses is a huge culprit, as well as the type of paint protection that is used. The SRT uses extremely aggressive Brembo`s. The brakes are the big culprit on the amount of contamination on this particular car (most of it was low behind the wheels and tailgate).

Client didn`t want a coating here, but this is the ideal situation for a coating.

When you say "ideal situation for a coating", are you implying or from real-world experience that a coating will resist or negate iron filing impregnation from brakes better than clear coat?? If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

 

[jatleson]

When you say "ideal situation for a coating", are you implying or from real-world experience that a coating will resist or negate iron filing impregnation from brakes better than clear coat?? If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

Point taken Lonnie. That would be the marketing material speaking about the iron particles and the value of coating a car. The Jeep had no wax, sealant or any other protection. Having something would have made it better than it was.

I do have real world experience (two daily driven test vehicles) that the particular coating I have applied does keep the cars significantly cleaner. Even my wife noticed her black Durango seems to stay cleaner.

The owner of the Jeep has sent me two referrals, so maybe I`ll get a chance to put a coating to the test on that particular Jeep down the road.

 

[Accumulator]

SWETM- I commend you on working to keep your car nice despite the disability. A lotta folks would see any such challenge as an excuse to just not care about it.

Claying without compromising the LSP might be, uhm...more theoretical than practical...for many (most?) people even though it works that way for me, but at least you`re working with a gentle clay that oughta be on the "overall pretty forgiving" end of the spectrum.