Cadillac dealership new my home......

[WAS]

Of course the clientele is different but the large majority still don't care about swirls IMO. Maybe I'm wrong but I kinda don't think so...at least not in my part of the world. I do work for a couple dealers that sell high end vehicles and most of the time I am not even required to wax them let alone do any sort of paint correction.



I hate to say it but you (Autopian detailers) are part of the 1%. Maybe Autopia should get "Occupy" style shirts made that say "I am part of the 1%".

JPostal: I'm with you. The majority of customers don't notice. Plain and simple. A good portion also don't really care.



Charles: I'm not advocating hack work. I'm not advocating detailing improperly simply because the customer won't notice. And I'm not trying to get into a philosophical debate here. I know the difference being doing a detail properly and not. My point is, the dealership does NOT CARE about proper or improper detail jobs. They care about 1 thing and 1 thing only, profits. Detailing for them is an expense, they make no money on it. And unless they have a large amount of customers coming back and complaining, they aren't going to start caring anytime soon. This has nothing to do with whether it's ethical or not, it has to do with the dealership just not making it a priority (and to be honest, they shouldn't. Like I said, it's an expense, not a revenue. Just because we detailers "think" it should be a priority, doesn't mean it really should be).



Now, if the dealership WAS getting a large enough amount of complaints, the OP would probably already know. Maybe not. It's worth a shot, I'm just saying that the OP shouldn't get too bummed out when the dealership says they're not interested. I've been shot down by enough dealerships to know what their priorities are, and having a car swirl-free isn't one of them.

 

[Jpostal]

I know the difference being doing a detail properly and not. My point is, the dealership does NOT CARE about proper or improper detail jobs. They care about 1 thing and 1 thing only, profits.

Kevin O'leary (of Shark Tank fame) would be proud of these dealers because after all, "the only thing that matters is money".

 

[Ron Ketcham]

Kevin O'leary (of Shark Tank fame) would be proud of these dealers because after all, "the only thing that matters is money".

Pretty much on the money.

As the main trainer, and creator, with Tim, for the Automotive International's PrepExcellence Traing School for 13 years, I learned even more about working with the mentality of "dealership management".

We would have dealerships that sent employee's to the school, most were sent there for the classes, due to pressure from their manufacturer's reps to improve the quality of the new car's per-delivery apperance.

The students, for the most part were able to grasp and understand the importance of doing things right when they left. (of course as in the real world, some just shook their heads in agreement and didn't really care)

Most cases, --------ONCE THEY RETURNED TO THE DEALERSHIP, THE NEW CAR OR USED CAR MANAGER MADE THEM GO BACK TO THE OLD "SLAM AND DUNK" METHOD'S of get it on the lot, get it "over the curb" method.

These "so-called" managers were only motivated by one thing----the money---how much gross was generated per vehicle that went to their side of the commission.

We all are aware that to do anything "right", requires more time, more quality materials, more of everything.

These sort of managers are trained the other way, Get it sold, and let the other departments of the dealership deal with the concequenses.

Guys, I have some experience in this after my 40 or so years of dealing with all areas of the automotive business, from the bean counters at a vehicle manufacturer to the many profit centers of a dealership, in this country and one hell of alot of them around the world.

It's all the same, and quality is not what they care about, about at dealership level, after all, that is what the big TV and print ads are supposed to do to convince the potential customer that their product is the best.

"Just get it over the curb, collect the commission check", is the mind set in dealership sales.

Grumpy

 

[WAS]

Kevin O'leary (of Shark Tank fame) would be proud of these dealers because after all, "the only thing that matters is money".

Yep, pretty much.

Pretty much on the money.

As the main trainer, and creator, with Tim, for the Automotive International's PrepExcellence Traing School for 13 years, I learned even more about working with the mentality of "dealership management".

We would have dealerships that sent employee's to the school, most were sent there for the classes, due to pressure from their manufacturer's reps to improve the quality of the new car's per-delivery apperance.

The students, for the most part were able to grasp and understand the importance of doing things right when they left. (of course as in the real world, some just shook their heads in agreement and didn't really care)

Most cases, --------ONCE THEY RETURNED TO THE DEALERSHIP, THE NEW CAR OR USED CAR MANAGER MADE THEM GO BACK TO THE OLD "SLAM AND DUNK" METHOD'S of get it on the lot, get it "over the curb" method.

These "so-called" managers were only motivated by one thing----the money---how much gross was generated per vehicle that went to their side of the commission.

We all are aware that to do anything "right", requires more time, more quality materials, more of everything.

These sort of managers are trained the other way, Get it sold, and let the other departments of the dealership deal with the concequenses.

Guys, I have some experience in this after my 40 or so years of dealing with all areas of the automotive business, from the bean counters at a vehicle manufacturer to the many profit centers of a dealership, in this country and one hell of alot of them around the world.

It's all the same, and quality is not what they care about, about at dealership level, after all, that is what the big TV and print ads are supposed to do to convince the potential customer that their product is the best.

"Just get it over the curb, collect the commission check", is the mind set in dealership sales.

Grumpy

Exactly. Fact is, many of us are not traditional business people. Some of the Autopians among us care about putting out a near-flawless finish just about as much as they care about the revenue they make from the job. This differs with most others in the general automotive industry, where profit, and solely profit, is the main driver. Take for example a mass-production Toyota vs a Rolls Royce.



I guess what I'm really trying to get across here is that we need to remember what the industry is truly like, and how the average customer truly acts. Pretending and trying to fool ourselves that every non-perfect finish is costing someone (a dealership, a private seller, whatever) money, is foolish.

 

[Accumulator]

Just because we detailers "think" [an umarred finish] should be a priority, doesn't mean it really should be.

I agree. While many of us are downright fanatical about it, it only matters as much as the car's owner cares. No, most people don't care, and there's nothing wrong with that.



And, yeah, the dealer's focus should be on turning a profit.







Now for the disclaimers...if the customer(s) do care, then the dealer shouldn't hack it up. Turning a profit isn't an excuse for doing things incorrectly, but it's a broad gamut between "Autopian" and "hack".



Hey, I did new car prep at a dealership. I did a nice job just as quickly/economically as the guys hacking 'em up next to me. Yeah, the manager appreciated the diff (well, to the extent that I got the dark cars), but I doubt anybody else did. And the dealership did just fine when I went on to other things and all the cars were back to getting hacked.

 

[Bill D]

This is why I am always politely but very firm with a dealer about a vehicle not getting "detailed". I explain it's my passion and I actually very much looking forward to doing the christening detail myself. I would get very animated and go on and on about it if I had to until the dealer "cracks" and I see in writing on all forms going towards the sale that the vehicle is not to be touched. Worked every time for me and things always went very pleasantly. The last time, it was getting towards the end of the month, so in order for the delaer to reach its quota, the salesperson more or less said okay right off the bat and the sale went through very smoothly.

 

[WAS]

I agree. While many of us are downright fanatical about it, it only matters as much as the car's owner cares. No, most people don't care, and there's nothing wrong with that.



And, yeah, the dealer's focus should be on turning a profit.







Now for the disclaimers...if the customer(s) do care, then the dealer shouldn't hack it up. Turning a profit isn't an excuse for doing things incorrectly, but it's a broad gamut between "Autopian" and "hack".

Absolutely. And I'm definitely not saying that hacking it up is perfectly OK to do, profit aside. Unfortunately, many times, that's how business works.

 

[Accumulator]

This is why I am always politely but very firm with a dealer about a vehicle not getting "detailed"..

Right, and ditto for the freebie washes when in for service.



Eh, I'm like that about a lot of services in a lot of different industries...."no, don't bother, I'll do that myself." They have their priorities, I have mine.

 

[WAS]

Right, and ditto for the freebie washes when in for service.

Ah yes, the freebie "customer wash" ! Very popular and not a chance that most of the customers know or care that their vehicle might as well be going through a swirl-o-matic. All they see is "good, it's nice and clean".

 

[Accumulator]

Ah yes, the freebie "customer wash" ! Very popular and not a chance that most of the customers know or care that their vehicle might as well be going through a swirl-o-matic. All they see is "good, it's nice and clean".

Yeah, those and the periodic free details/selant refreshers/etc. are actually nice services for many customers. A friend of ours has her black Acura MDX done at the dealer for free during regular services, and though any Autopian can just guess as to its condition, she's perfectly happy and that's what counts.

 

[Lotuseffect]

To close this out I met with the General Manager of the lot last week. We walked around the lot and I showed him what I was talking about. He initially seemed receptive to the idea of me having a training class with the in house detailers on how to wash more gently and reduce the marring. As we were walking and talking he asked how would I wash a car with the products they had on site. We went to the wash garage area where one detailer had just applied some generic carnauba to the car and was now proceeding to clay bar the car with an entire bar in his hand gripping it like it was a 2 seam fastball.



At this point I really did not want to insult the employee because I think thats a turn off for customers, and I didnt want to possibly get him in trouble. However, there was still some dirty spots on the car which had now been waxed, so I asked the guy what kind of shampoo they use. He said he had just foamed the car, and then rinsed and was now claying.



I asked the general manager if I could have a word with him in private and explained as delicately as possible all the surface dirt should be removed as gently as possible before clay barring the car. Together we walked over back to the guy and he informed us this car had just been purchased and this is how he was shown to prep cars leaving the lot. Foam bath, rinse, wax, then clay and wipe down. I said something to the effect that this was "unconventional".



As we were walking away I offered a training class on a fast easy wash with the pressure washer, then claying, then proper waxing AFTER claying, not before. My quote to train his entire detailing team (9 employees as he says) for approximately what I estimated would be 3 hours on 2 different days to accomodate their employees schedules was $900.



He balked at the number and asked why that much? I explained I charge $50 a wash (x2 demonstrations = $100), 6 hours of my time ($70/hour $420), to train 9 employees of his, and my travel time + mileage (30 miles round trip x2 = 60 miles) Not to mention his employees will be trained and they will have no need for me to come back.



He said "I was thinking more along the lines of $100 bucks a pop for each class". I said no, we parted ways. Oh well.





p.s. my usual labor rate is $35 an hour but I figured since it was a training class I would just double it. Seemed fair enough to me.

 

[safetyman2010]

To close this out I met with the General Manager of the lot last week. We walked around the lot and I showed him what I was talking about. He initially seemed receptive to the idea of me having a training class with the in house detailers on how to wash more gently and reduce the marring. As we were walking and talking he asked how would I wash a car with the products they had on site. We went to the wash garage area where one detailer had just applied some generic carnauba to the car and was now proceeding to clay bar the car with an entire bar in his hand gripping it like it was a 2 seam fastball.



At this point I really did not want to insult the employee because I think thats a turn off for customers, and I didnt want to possibly get him in trouble. However, there was still some dirty spots on the car which had now been waxed, so I asked the guy what kind of shampoo they use. He said he had just foamed the car, and then rinsed and was now claying.



I asked the general manager if I could have a word with him in private and explained as delicately as possible all the surface dirt should be removed as gently as possible before clay barring the car. Together we walked over back to the guy and he informed us this car had just been purchased and this is how he was shown to prep cars leaving the lot. Foam bath, rinse, wax, then clay and wipe down. I said something to the effect that this was "unconventional".



As we were walking away I offered a training class on a fast easy wash with the pressure washer, then claying, then proper waxing AFTER claying, not before. My quote to train his entire detailing team (9 employees as he says) for approximately what I estimated would be 3 hours on 2 different days to accomodate their employees schedules was $900.



He balked at the number and asked why that much? I explained I charge $50 a wash (x2 demonstrations = $100), 6 hours of my time ($70/hour $420), to train 9 employees of his, and my travel time + mileage (30 miles round trip x2 = 60 miles) Not to mention his employees will be trained and they will have no need for me to come back.



He said "I was thinking more along the lines of $100 bucks a pop for each class". I said no, we parted ways. Oh well.





p.s. my usual labor rate is $35 an hour but I figured since it was a training class I would just double it. Seemed fair enough to me.

I have had several dealers ask me about training their staff and it's always the same old story. The sad thing is I could easily save most of these guys thousands a year on product use alone so even if they brought me in 4x @ $500 a day they would break even for the year and as long as the staff did as they were told be far more productive with better results.

 

[WAS]

He balked at the number and asked why that much? I explained I charge $50 a wash (x2 demonstrations = $100), 6 hours of my time ($70/hour $420), to train 9 employees of his, and my travel time + mileage (30 miles round trip x2 = 60 miles) Not to mention his employees will be trained and they will have no need for me to come back.



He said "I was thinking more along the lines of $100 bucks a pop for each class". I said no, we parted ways. Oh well.

Sorry to hear it didn't work out. But yep, this is exactly what happens, don't expect it to be any different at any other dealership. It's just not a priority of theirs.